Winch Fairlead Poll

[Lost Canadian]

Here's my weights before and after going to syn. line and delrin rollers. It actually makes a pretty big difference, especially when you consider that that weight is cantilvevered weight,so it's impact on driving and suspension dynamics is amplified.

M8000 Before
Winch= 38lbs
100 ft of Steel Cable and hook= 21 lbs
Steel Rollers on Fairlead= 11 lbs
Controller and cables= 9 lbs
Total weight= 79 lbs

M8000 After
Winch= 38 lbs
80ft of Synthetic cable and hook= 2 lbs
Delrin rollers on fairlead= 8lb
Controler and cables= 9 lbs
Total weight= 57lbs

If you went to an aluminum fairlead housing and moved the control box off the bumper you can shave even more weight.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I have an M8000 and I would swear that it weighs more than 38 pounds, but I have never actually had it on a scale. I see your point about weight savings though.

 

[p1michaud]

Viking caged roller

Scott,

I don't see a special caged roller on the winchline.com site... just the rollers.

And by half the weight, aren't we talking about just one or two lbs (without the rollers)?

Pete

Pete,
Copied from here and may answer your question:

After searching for some time, I have found a new roller fairlead, which is designed specifically for synthetic line. It is just hitting the market. Several on this forum have seen it in person, and it is quite impressive:

It is from a company called Viking Off-Road

Here are the details from Thor, one of the owners and the R&D guy:
"Yes the rollers are Delrin, Genuine DuPont Delrin. There are other materials that are basically the same but the name Delrin is a registered name for DuPont’s polymer recepie. The aluminum housing is 5052 aluminum (regular variety) harder aluminum will crack on the bends. The anodizing is a Type II military specification with CO2 laser engraved logo which preserved the anodizing, it just bleaches it out. Also, we do our part for the environment and pay extra fees to properly dispose of the anodizing chemicals. The pins are a medium hardness - high quality stainless steel, as are the hex bolts/nuts. The retaining rings are of high strength zinc coated steel."

The unit weighs just over 5lbs., which is 1/3 the weight of a Warn roller.[/QUOTE]


Cheers,
P

 

[p1michaud]

UHMWPE impressions

UHMWPE

Cheap and effective.

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/accessories.htm

I've purchased an UHMWPE fairlead from sky-manufacturing and here are my thoughs copied over from this thread:

I purchased my composite fairlead from SKY-Manufacturing and it's made from UHMW. Look under the "Accessories" section and scroll down a bit, they are only $25!

I do have one comment/concern about mounting a composite fairlead. Did you have any problems properly torquing the mounting bolts that go through the fairlead and bumper to the winch?

I noticed that the bolt was starting to compress the UHMW so I added a larger washer to spread the load and try to get to the required torque (about 30 ft-lbs). I also added some medium strenght Loctite for extra security (the mounting bolts for the winch came with lock washers). I did not quite get to 30 ft-lbs because the plastic fairlead was starting to compress quite a bit so I stopped because I was afraid to break it. Did you experience the same issue with your fairlead?

I would suggest that they change their design slightly to press in a metal sleeve where the bolt hole is so that you could achieve the proper tightening torque without damaging the composite fairlead while having the fairlead solidly mounted.

Just a heads up to the folks on the forum who are considering composite fairelads, some people on Yotatech have experience problems where the composite fairleads were distorting during winching. One or two reports of this happening from what I read. Might be justification to go to aluminum, not sure.

I'm currently considering other options, but will be staying with a Hawse style fairlead because I'm running a TJM T-17 and don't like the look of the roller fairlead and how it sticks out on these bumpers. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about. As for the poll, I voted for the Delrin because that's the option I would choose if it were compatible with my bumper!


Cheers :beer:,
P

 

[Dirty Harry]

I have not been impressed with most of the products that I have seen from Sky Mfg. They seem to be poorly engineered copies of other companies' products.

 

[lowenbrau]

I've purchased an UHMWPE fairlead from sky-manufacturing and here are my thoughs copied over from this thread:
Cheers :beer:,
P

Thanks for the report. The aluminum hawse with the synthetic insert might be the hot ticket. I've used an old fashioned work steel roller with my amsteel blue without any problems but I use snatchblocks and straps to controll the angle of pull when I can. I have an old steel hawse that I might coat with slip plate and try out because I'm running short of modification money for this year.

 

[adventureduo]

I think that the hawse fairlead is better for rockcrawling since it offers a better approach angle, but for expedition trips where the chance of side pulls is greater and the approach angle issue is not as big of a deal I can see an advantage to the delrin roller fairlead.

I agree. If i had a rockbuggy i'd have a hawse with a rope. With a expedition type rig.. i dont feel it's necessary.

 

[ntsqd]

I prefer the simplicity of the hawse type over a roller. This after having built a roller from SBC wrist (gudgeon) pins, flanged oillite bronze bushings, & keyed pins (so the rollers roll & not the pins) for the DB's 2500 lbs winch.

IMHO using UHMWPE for a fairlead opens up a parallel to the similar alloys of stainless galling kind of problem as most of the poly winch lines are PE polymers. Would want some experiments conducted b4 I'd commit.

I've had an idea of what I think would be the ideal alloy for a hawse fairlead when using poly line. Just have yet to investigate whether it's possible to sell such a thing at a fair price.

 

[lowenbrau]

I prefer the simplicity of the hawse type over a roller. This after having built a roller from SBC wrist (gudgeon) pins, flanged oillite bronze bushings, & keyed pins (so the rollers roll & not the pins) for the DB's 2500 lbs winch.

IMHO using UHMWPE for a fairlead opens up a parallel to the similar alloys of stainless galling kind of problem as most of the poly winch lines are PE polymers. Would want some experiments conducted b4 I'd commit.

I've had an idea of what I think would be the ideal alloy for a hawse fairlead when using poly line. Just have yet to investigate whether it's possible to sell such a thing at a fair price.

Amsteel Blue is advertised as UHMWPE

I'd think that after nearly ten years of competitive use and a lot longer in the marine world the real downfalls would have showed up by now. I don't think you can really make to tragic a mistake with your fairlead choice. If I'm wrong, one of the big advantages to synthetic rope is how easy it is to splice.

 

[ntsqd]

What I'm concerned with is one form of UHMWPE rubbing across another form of UHMWPE. It may or may not be a problem, I just do not know. However, Amsteel & Amsteel Blue both have urethane coatings on them (for UV protection?). How this affects things I also do not know. Saying "UHMWPE" is not like saying "4130" or "6061 T6", polymers can have many varients within a given "alloy" type.

I'm not saying don't use a PE fairlead with a PE winch line. I'm saying the situation invites caution until known to play well together. If anyone has run this combo I'd be interested in the results.

From an afternoon's testing of Amsteel I know that it does not like localized heat. Any sort of stress riser that caused internal friction (like a knot) also caused localized heating which was a failure mode. I know they say not to use knots in splicing it, I wanted to see why - the point of the test was to see what failed the line. Even the best of the climbing knots that I was taught years ago failed the line. Where the line parted was not a typical (i.e. metal) tensile failure, it didn't "rip" it apart. It looked like the line had literally melted apart.

So my concern is if the line or a coating on the line causes localized heating of the line where it rubs on the fairlead.

 

[Howard70]

I agree with Lowenbrau - the UHMW Hawser Fairleads from Sky-Manufacturing seem fine. I remembered Pete's original post of a potential problem with these fairleads potentially distorting when the mounting bolts were torqued down and during winching.

To prevent this when I installed one of these synthetic fairleads with my Warn M8000 on a TJM-17 bumper mounted on a Tacoma, I made some bushings out of bronze bushing material and then used large fender washers to fill the recess in the fairlead. The Warn M8000 is set up for 5/16 hardware to mount the fairlead, but the UHMW Hawser Fairleads have a larger mounting hole. The bronze bushing perfectly fills the gap and prevents excessive compression of the synthetic material when tightening the mounting bolts. The large fender washer helps distribute the force and further reduces the potential for distortion.

Because I couldn't get the correct sized washer in 5/16 I used a larger washer with a "regular" sized 5/16 washer to step up. A cleaner install would get the correct outer diameter in a 5/16 washer. The bushing and washers show in the attached photos. - (Edit I can't seem to get the attachments to correpsond with this post. Will try to upload them again).



So far the fairlead and mounting seem fine, but I don't have any really hard pulls yet to test the distortion under load.

Howard L. Snell

 

[Howard70]

Photos for previous message

Here are the photos of the bushings mentioned above

 

[Green Ganesha]

When I made the switch to synethic line, I went with Delrin rollers. Two aspects of the aluminum hawse fairlead concerned me: (1) heat buildup, particularly on a side pull where the line/fairlead friction is concentrated at a localized section of fairlead; and (2) ease of mounting to an ARB bumper designed for rollers.

 

[p1michaud]

Exactly!

Here are the photos of the bushings mentioned above

Howard70,
That is exactly what I had in mind when I was intalling mind. Unfortunately, I did not have acces to a machine shop to make the bushings/sleeves. That's an easy fix. My point is that, when you purchase an item such as a fairlead, you should not have to turn arround an make modifications to make it fit, is should come ready to bolt on!

Cheers :beer:,
P

 

[p1michaud]

While we are on the topic of fairleads....

While we are on the subject of fairleads, here is another beef I have: most fairleads for the winches that are mounted “feet forward” don’t line up with the cut out in my TJM T-17 bumper.
See the attached picture for a quick sketch of what I mean. The drawn in red rectangle is showing the actual cut out of the bumper behind the fairlead. The top portion of the fairlead is not adequeately supported in my mind and this could lead to an issue. Sorry for the poor quality picture, but you get the point. Has anyone else encountered this problem?

I did find a solution to this problem via a fairlead with off set mounting bolts from OK Off Road called SP Aluminum Hawse Fairlead where the bolt holes are 3/8" below center. Click here and scroll down a bit: OK Off Road SP Aluminum Hawse Fairlead.
I've also attached a photo of this fairlead.

Cheers :beer:,
Pierre