winch wars

[madmax718]

Winches are rarely fully tested until you need it. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of winches have only been put on, and maybe done a stretch (for steel line). Beyond that, unless your stuck or recovering someone else, when else would you test it? and by then, it could be months, or years.

 

[Warn Industries]

Winches are rarely fully tested until you need it. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of winches have only been put on, and maybe done a stretch (for steel line). Beyond that, unless your stuck or recovering someone else, when else would you test it? and by then, it could be months, or years.

I'm always shocked at how few people know they need to stretch the winch line before using it. Some people only think you have to stretch wire; some think only synthetic. Both varieties need to be stretched before use.

You also bring up a good point, and I don't care if it's our winch or not: You need to know your equipment. Test the winch out; get familiar with it before you need it. That way, when you're in a situation, you might just be a bit more calm and a bit more safe.

- Andy

 

[Outback]

After having several different brands mounted on our work trucks I can say there are just really two choices. Hands down WARN wins. Second place goes to Ramsey and ONLY with there Worm drive series. These are the same ones you see on Flatbed tow trucks. I currently run with the Warn 16.5ti 12 volt on my work truck. My next winch which will be going onto my M1028 (Chevy K30) will be a new Warn 10,000 lb rated for the front (fits between front frame rails) and a new Warn 16.5ti 24 volt for the rear (between the rear frame rail). Internally the WARN Winches are light years above everyone else. Again Ramsey Worm drives are excellent as well. The problem with Hydraulic or PTO winches is that the vehicle needs to be running for the winch to work. This may not be an issue for you but something to keep in mind. Warn also has a line of Hydraulic Winches so they have something for you there as well. Good Luck!

 

[Outback]

I'm always shocked at how few people know they need to stretch the winch line before using it. Some people only think you have to stretch wire; some think only synthetic. Both varieties need to be stretched before use.

You also bring up a good point, and I don't care if it's our winch or not: You need to know your equipment. Test the winch out; get familiar with it before you need it. That way, when you're in a situation, you might just be a bit more calm and a bit more safe.

- Andy

This Statement is so true! When I picked my work truck up from an Outfitter I went to go and "stretch' my winch line on our new Warn 16.5 ti winch. After hooking up a tree saver to my telephone pole I pulled the cable over and hooked it up. I placed my truck in Neutral (flat level surface) and placed the parking brake on just a few clicks to give some decent resistance. As soon as I pressed the return toggle in the winch control The winch died and I heard a loud click come from the engine compartment. The hood was open so a quick look didn't show me anything. The winch was dead? No power? After tracing the lines I found that the Outfitter installed a 100 amp breaker inline with the winch power cable. The Warn 16.5 draws 96 amps just pulling the cable back in with NO LOAD. Not sure what they were thinking when they installed the winch. I by passed it and what do you know. It worked perfectly. Ive LOVE that 16.5ti WARN winch! It has recovered many a stuck vehicle including mine since then. Ive gone through two cables over the years and would suggest to everyone to replace your steel wire rope with a synthetic one. That's just my personal preference. OH and this is the second winch that has been wired up incorrectly from a supposed Outfitting "expert" company. NEVER trust anyone when it comes to your safety gear and always inspect how your winch is installed and wired up. That 100 amp fuse was hard to spot.

 

[Outback]

Another side note. Winches can be VERY Dangerous! They will eat you fingers, hands and arms quicker than you could imagine. KEEP THESE BODY PARTS AND OTHERS OUT OF THE WAY as you feed the cable back into the winch drum/fairlead. A winch cable that breaks can come around and take an arm, leg or your head off as well. You need to read ALL of the directions and warnings that every winch manufacturer supplies. You MUST use some type of weight on the cable when you are recovering any vehicle. ARB makes a winch line weight or you can make your own. A heavy blanket or jacket can be used as a last resort These items will help dissipate or absorb a lot of the energy that is stored up in the STRETCHED cable as you are recovering another vehicle or yours. When your cable breaks (and it will at some point) it has the power to do horrible things to whom ever is around. I cringe every time I see people with there children or just other people hanging around with in reach of that cable while they are recovering a vehicle. KEEP all bystanders the HELL AWAY when engaged in vehicle recovery. All of the hardware you use when recovering with a winch cable needs to be in good NON DAMAGED condition and rated for more than twice the possible load your winch can pull with a snatch block. This includes items like Bow shackles (some times incorrectly called D shackles) and tree savers ect ect. Always wear heavy duty leather gloves and safety glasses while using a winch. This is just a quick outline for your safety. Read the owners manual. You can also go online and download from WARN a great safety manual.
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Sorry for the rant but since you were asking which winch I thought you might need some friendly advice in there operation.

 

[verdesardog]

After having several different brands mounted on our work trucks I can say there are just really two choices. Hands down WARN wins. Second place goes to Ramsey and ONLY with there Worm drive series. These are the same ones you see on Flatbed tow trucks. I currently run with the Warn 16.5ti 12 volt on my work truck. My next winch which will be going onto my M1028 (Chevy K30) will be a new Warn 10,000 lb rated for the front (fits between front frame rails) and a new Warn 16.5ti 24 volt for the rear (between the rear frame rail). Internally the WARN Winches are light years above everyone else. Again Ramsey Worm drives are excellent as well. The problem with Hydraulic or PTO winches is that the vehicle needs to be running for the winch to work. This may not be an issue for you but something to keep in mind. Warn also has a line of Hydraulic Winches so they have something for you there as well. Good Luck!

As an ex tow truck driver (AAA recovery specialist trained and certified) I can say that none of the trucks I operated had any electric winch, all were either hydraulic or on the older trucks PTO. If my truck is not running then a winch probably won't do me any good anyway! LOL

 

[LR Max]

Dumb question about "stretching" the cable. What is this and why do you need to do it? Do you need to do this with synthetic?

Once a month practice is always great. Last time I practiced pulling cable, I learned/re-learned a few things.

 

[Warn Industries]

Dumb question about "stretching" the cable. What is this and why do you need to do it? Do you need to do this with synthetic?

Once a month practice is always great. Last time I practiced pulling cable, I learned/re-learned a few things.

Not a dumb question at all.

Basically, you're winding the rope onto the drum under tension.

Of course I can't speak for any other manufacturers, but at WARN if you get a winch with wire rope on it, the wire will be spooled onto the drum. However, it is not spooled under load, simply wound on there. Our Spydura synthetic rope always comes in the box off the drum. When you stretch the rope under load, you're winding the rope tightly on the drum.

And yes, you need to stretch both wire and synthetic onto the drum.

All of our winch manuals have detailed instructions on how to stretch wire rope. For instance, you can check out page 10–11 of the M8000 manual here.

- Andy

 

[LR Max]

Ah ok. We've been doing that for a while now, just haven't called it cable stretching. Just always said, "gotta put it under tension".

 

[madmax718]

If I recall correctly, the reason you pre stretch the cable is that it doesn't have any slack in it, on the drum. When it rolls onto itself, if there is any amount of give, you can crush or damage the layers of cable. kinked and smushed cable sucks.

 

[Dennx]

I've been researching winches and came across Superwinch saying that not all winch drums are made for synthetic ropes and using a synthetic rope on a internal drum brake can damage it from heat. They make a specific winch (Talon 9500 SR) drum for synthetic ropes and their brake is external from the drum. I found it interesting because many companies like Warn and others have winches that can use either steel or synthetic on the same winch and have internal braking.

 

[madmax718]

You could have two answers to the question:
1. Superwinch uses a thinner drum for their steel cable winches, (saving money) and uses a thicker one for more heat absorption in the synthetic. (and costing more)
2. Warn Doesnt care, (saving money) or Warn already uses the thick one regardless of which cable you use, giving the user the flexibility to do whatever theyt want!

 

[LR Max]

You could have two answers to the question:
1. Superwinch uses a thinner drum for their steel cable winches, (saving money) and uses a thicker one for more heat absorption in the synthetic. (and costing more)
2. Warn Doesnt care, (saving money) or Warn already uses the thick one regardless of which cable you use, giving the user the flexibility to do whatever theyt want!

I don't really think it matters. I've never seen synthetic winch line melt, including back in the day when it was first getting on the market. I bought my warn M12k back in 2001. No one offered synthetic from the factory and probably said I shouldn't run it. Did anyway. No problems. Also nowadays most 3rd party rope suppliers (like Southeast Overland) offer heat guards. That helps out a lot.

In terms of steel vs. synthetic. I had an experience this past weekend. Long story short, I had to winch up a very slippery slope. Heck I could barely walk up it and the truck didn't get traction until I was near the end of the pull (I've got 100ft of rope, used a significant proportion of that). If I had to drag 3/8" cable up that hill, I would've ended up on my rear end coming back down on it. Synthetic is SO much easier to work with. Also the line got all bunched up on one side of the drum. If I had been using cable, I probably would've had all kinds of issues. Not with synthetic.

Went back to camp, properly re-spooled it back on, good to go for later (and by later, apparently the next evening).

 

[Warn Industries]

Actually, we do use special drums for our truck winches that run our Spydura synthetic rope vs. the units that run wire.

- Andy

 

[Dennx]

This is what I was referring to from Expedition One's facebook page.

A little winching 101... Synthetic line VS Steel cable. Under tension steel cable tightens together and its individual strands dig into the drum, thus why you only need 4 wraps on the drum with a steel cable in order to do successful recovery... Synthetic line spreads out, and has virtually no force of friction on the drum, and acts like a boa constrictor on the drum... If the drums not up to it the line squeezes down, looks a bit like necking would if the drum were in tension....Picture below illustrates the issue... and in the the end the drum can fail. This why if your going to run synthetic buying a winch made for synthetic is so important.... And thats the lesson for today...