Winches!

[Metcalf]

I have yet to see anyone drain their electrical system using their winch. I'm sure it can happen if you're system is defective (not a winch problem) or if the person using it is a numbskull (again, not a winch problem). If we're talking modern vehicles, most have relatively high output alternators. Load generates larger electrical demand, not speed. It's all kind of irrelevant as the operator can't vary the speed on an electric winch. You get what you get when you buy what ever model you choose.

We had more than one vehicle on last year 2015 Ultimate Adventure trip have issues with keeping the battery charged when winching. They would pull long enough that the voltage would drop low enough that the fuel injection computer/ignition would shut down. I can't say if all the vehicles had perfect charging systems, but most of them where running modern engines and alternators. We winched all 20+ vehicles up this monster of a muddy hill in North Carolina. It was probably 3-4 complete pulls for most of the vehicles. The time re-rigging for the next pull was not enough time to charge the batteries back up. I remember waiting for at least 3-5 of the vehicles to charge the battery enough to work correctly. Most winches have no problem pulling 200-300amps when pulling decently hard, very few vehicles have alternators capable of sustaining that for very long.

If you look at most of the Euro winch comp guys that are running high end electric winches, they have multiple LARGE batteries and it isn't uncommon to see more than one alternator. Beyond that, you start to see PTO and hydraulic drive winches.

I will agree that a modern vehicle with a modern charging system is enough for 99% of the people out there. I think a $500 winch is just fine too.

 

[I Leak Oil]

I put that situation in the numbskull category then! HA HA....I like the UA concept. Probably not necessary to winch until the system dies right? They chose to do it that way? Not a race or life/death situation? Perhaps a hydraulic unit would have been a better choice for them as duty cycle is an inherent advantage.
Winch challenge units are generally electric because of the speed advantage. Just easier to get more from electric.

 

[Metcalf]

I put that situation in the numbskull category then! HA HA....I like the UA concept. Probably not necessary to winch until the system dies right? They chose to do it that way? Not a race or life/death situation? Perhaps a hydraulic unit would have been a better choice for them as duty cycle is an inherent advantage.
Winch challenge units are generally electric because of the speed advantage. Just easier to get more from electric.

UA is fun, it is a great overall test of the vehicle....and the people.

The hard part is knowing when to stop winching because the electrical system is run down. Some modern vehicles will give you an idiot light. The modern voltmeter is pretty useless, and if the alternator is charging it might lie.

We 'had' to get 20+ vehicles up before it got dark......I think we had about 15 minutes to spare. It took a LONG time. 20+ vehicles all having to do 3-4 full pulls each....

I don't know about electric being the #1 choice in Euro comps because of speed. I think it is the easy option for installation. Even with extra batteries and alternators the fitment is likely less challenging than a pto type winch. I see a lot of center mounted PTO winches on the scratch/purpose built cars.

 

[AndrewP]

We all have different experiences due to differences in terrain where we live.

For instance, at Sierra Trek there are a series of 5 winch hills where you get 2 tries and then get winched up. I saw a single Jeep with an 8274 winch maybe 50 trucks up one of the winch hills, THe difference is, the traction was pretty good, and the actual amount of high load winching was less than 1 minute per truck and I guess the alternator and battery could keep up with it during the time the next truck was hooked up.

For a long pull up a mud hill, I can see the solenoids frying before running the battery down to zero. I also don't see a cheap winch surviving that kind of abuse at all. Those kind of pulls would make a strong case for a hydraulic winch even though in my limited experience they are slow as molasses. Maybe with a dedicated hydraulic pump they would be OK, but with just a power steering pump, they are almost too slow to be useful.

There is a balance to be found in speed, power, heat build up, battery size etc.

 

[Metcalf]

We all have different experiences due to differences in terrain where we live.
There is a balance to be found in speed, power, heat build up, battery size etc.

I agree. I think that balance is a 130-160amp alternator, a group 34 battery or larger, and just about any modern winch that retails for about $400-500 or more.
That will cover about 99% of the people, and use, you would see on a vehicle that is less than 6000lbs.

Even companies like Quadratec are coming out with decent 'house brand' winches these days.

http://www.quadratec.com/showcases/quadratec_exclusive/quadratec_winch/#synthetic

Lifetime parts warranty and a 1yr electric warranty.

I have an old Belleview 6000lb on my flat fender that refuses to die after much abuse.



My new project is getting an older 8274. I picked this one up for a few hundred dollars. They have been making them for almost 50 years now, they are out there. Parts are still available. Heck, you can almost get anything you want in the aftermarket for hot rod stuff also.



As I mentioned before. The 8274 isn't THAT easy to fit on most vehicles, especially if you want any airflow into your cooling system. I like mounting them to so the hawse is below and behind the bumper with the overall winch profile sitting fairly low in the chassis.

 

[I Leak Oil]

For all you granny type slow winch advocates this should get your chest pounding.....
http://gigglepin4x4.net/gp80-series-mk5-twin-motor-winch-479-p.asp
unk03:

 

[Box Rocket]

Here's another one for anyone looking for some wicked speed from a winch. Dual Motor, upgright design. Super sexy if you ask me.
http://www.comeupwinch-blazer.com/

 

[Metcalf]

Just to be clear. I am not saying you need a slow winch....I am just saying you don't need a fast one.

 

[I Leak Oil]

I didn't interpret you that way at all. Any winch that gets you out is a good one. Nice flattie by the way. Some day....

 

[MOguy]

Just to be clear. I am not saying you need a slow winch....I am just saying you don't need a fast one.

They beat the hell out of a slow one.

 

[Metcalf]

They beat the hell out of a slow one.

Other than a few extreme examples, what are the speed differences really?

This older expo portal winch test didn't show THAT much of a difference did it?

http://expeditionportal.com/tug-of-war-the-ultimate-12v-winch-test/

While it didn't include every winch ever, it hit most of the bases.
The spread for the 'Unimog' pull was 3 minutes for the quickest (8274) to over 8 minutes for the slowest ( husky 10K), with the others being between 4-5 minutes.

What winches are THAT much faster than everything else other than freaks like the 8274?

 

[MOguy]

Other than a few extreme examples, what are the speed differences really?

This older expo portal winch test didn't show THAT much of a difference did it?

http://expeditionportal.com/tug-of-war-the-ultimate-12v-winch-test/

While it didn't include every winch ever, it hit most of the bases.
The spread for the 'Unimog' pull was 3 minutes for the quickest (8274) to over 8 minutes for the slowest ( husky 10K), with the others being between 4-5 minutes.

What winches are THAT much faster than everything else other than freaks like the 8274?

My buudy had a smitty an mine was more than twice as fast. We raced, his was slow. Honestly not a real big deal. He has pulled me out and was happy he ws there

 

[I Leak Oil]

Although that article is only one source of information, it does show that there is no direct correlation between higher line speed leading to higher temps or electrical system debilitating amp draw vs. the slower units. Despite it's painfully slow speed, I'd still love to have a Husky 10. Beast of a machine.

 

[Metcalf]

Although that article is only one source of information, it does show that there is no direct correlation between higher line speed leading to higher temps or electrical system debilitating amp draw vs. the slower units. Despite it's painfully slow speed, I'd still love to have a Husky 10. Beast of a machine.

Just curious, what are you running now for a winch?

One of the other nice things about the Husky was always the worm gear 'brake' function. I always liked those winches, but boy howdy they where tanks.

I wonder how the gear drive system ( and brake system ) is playing into things. Most the planetary winches seems to be running similar temps/speeds. The 8274 with its upright gear drive seems to be in a different class. Then the worm gear drive of the husky.

 

[I Leak Oil]

Right now my series rover has an XD9000i. I've had it almost 20 years. A couple re-greasings, couple solenoids, new toggle switch for the controller and it's worked great the whole time. I also have an 8274 that will go on something again someday. Probably go on my series truck, move the 9000i to something else. Had a planetary Superwinch as well and that did OK. Friend of mine has a worm drive Ramsey 10K, much like the Husky, it is a work horse. Another friend had an earlier Mile Marker electric. Real POS. The solenoid pack went bad quickly and the magnets detached from inside the motor making it useless and not worth fixing.