Winching VS. Pulling

[flyingwil]

I know some of you guys are active on the Tucson Off-Road, but have you watched the other videos? I just do not understand why anyone would want to publish and show off that they do not stay on the trails. Yeah it is cool to see their approach angles in action, but it is not cool to not be on the trail. If they need something more extreme why not run H2H?


Also back on topic, I do not see anything wrong with using the winch in their situation, I would have done the same.

 

[bigreen505]

I just do not understand why anyone would want to publish and show off that they do not stay on the trails.

Because it's cool, they're pioneers, rebels, pirates, poaching? "I bought/built this truck/rig/atv/buggy/crawler/kick ass proof of my manhood to go off road, not follow the tracks of everyone that came before me. Try it, it's fun and cool. Now hold the camera so my buddies will see how cool I am." The "environmentalists" among them think it will grow back, but most don't really care. Manifest destiny, you know.

Wanna see? Hold my beer while I show you how far I can go with 40" MT/Rs and 400 all-American V8 horsepower.:ar15:

Besides there are legit reasons for going off the trail or blazing your own such as ... um ... well maybe ... um ... building a road to go to your mine in 1856?

One thing I've learned looking at a lot of pictures is sometimes, it really is an established road/trail even if doesn't look like it.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I know some of you guys are active on the Tucson Off-Road, but have you watched the other videos? I just do not understand why anyone would want to publish and show off that they do not stay on the trails. Yeah it is cool to see their approach angles in action, but it is not cool to not be on the trail. If they need something more extreme why not run H2H?


Also back on topic, I do not see anything wrong with using the winch in their situation, I would have done the same.

Should we post this on the PBB and let the Pirrate4x4.com Lynching comence?

Say what you want about Pirate but they DO NOT put up with that sort of activity. They have been so close to loosing the Rubicon from BS like that they are hypersensitive to anybody acting like that off trail.

 

[Scott Brady]

Should we post this on the PBB and let the Pirrate4x4.com Lynching comence?

I dont think so IMHO. Maybe an email or PM to one of the moderators would be a better first step. I think 90% of the Tucson BB is solid and more than capable of self policing.

 

[flyingwil]

I don't get why I am the first one to bring this up. Yeah, we have all gone off the trail before, or not followed Tread Lightly ethics, but seeing this and the replies encouraging their behavior made my stomach turn! I can not get onto their site at work, but if any one that is a member of the club, please bring it up to who it needs to.

On the other hand it has to be brought up in the correct way, as to educate and teach as opposed to scolding them. Can someone please take the initiative and get them on the right path before their behavior snowballs and others that are new to the sport think that it is an okay thing to do.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

I'm afraid my attitude toward this stuff is a bit harsher.

In the Tread Lightly training they go to great lengths to suggest ways we can approach land abusers in an intelligent, reasonable fashion. The problem with this approach is that it has been designed by intelligent, reasonable people and presented to intelligent, reasonable people (the reason they're doing Tread Lightly in the first place). But often those we need to apply it to are not intelligent and reasonable. Or at least they're not acting that way at the time, due to "peer pressure," which I prefer to think of as "simultaneous stupidity."

My solution to this scenario is to have about a dozen of the nicest Expo vehicles show up while it's happening. We all walk down to the guys who are stuck off the trail and ask for their home addresses. When they ask why, we say, "When this area gets closed because of abuse like this, we all want to be able to send you a personal thank-you note."

Okay, that's probably the wrong approach, but wouldn't it feel ever so much better than smiling and doing the "Hey, looks like you guys are having fun. We just want to remind you that we all share this area and it's the responsibility of all of us to blah blah blah?"

 

[Brian McVickers]

Thanks everyone for the input on proper winching technique.:bowdown:
I have learned how to better use mine and will be able to practice more proper technique the next time it is needed.


Moving forward, there certainly is a problem with wildcat and destructive offroading across the country.
Hopefully we can all contribute with preventing this behavior through the examples we set and the opportunities we have to influence.
Maybe we move this over to the Concervation and Land Use area to discuss opportunities and techniques for
Educating new 4x4 enthusiasts
Educating actively destructive wildcat offroaders
Organizing trail cleanup and maintenance efforts
And doing what we can for preserving the opportunities we have with overland travel and offroad adventure.

 

[bigreen505]

I don't get why I am the first one to bring this up.

Personally, I only watched the first two videos (recovery 1 and 2) and didn't realize there was more until your post.

 

[GeoRoss]

Recovery is also about having the right gear. I didn't in these cases. In the river, the steel cable wasn't long enough and the rope broke repeated no until we wrapped/twisted multiple times.

The other shot shows what happens when your recovery vehicle gets stuck too! 30km to the nearest road and the hope that you can persuade someone to come pull you out. 14hr later, it was a done but expensive

 

[Brian McVickers]

Great shots GeoRoss
did the river go down or was the white truck stuck twice?

 

[bigreen505]

Another off the trail post here.

 

[GeoRoss]

Great shots GeoRoss
did the river go down or was the white truck stuck twice?

Same river, just different parts. The one were both got stuck was two days after the first picture and upstream quite a bit. Both were swollen from snow melt.

Ross

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

I have a different attitude about it- altho I don't know how these people were acting in general (I only saw the 2 vids); I believe simple ignorance can be a major factor.
I think people try their best with the knowledge they have, which at times, is not enough. It is not intentional, nor is it an excuse. However, there must be a positive, inclusive way to educate people w/o attacking them. So they change and preach the change to others.

Watching others' mistakes is one great way to learn (as in this thread) however, the video camera is unforgiving and yes, can decieve too. Also, the shoe maybe on the other foot one day.

Learning never stops, thus mistakes won't either, however, stupidity is unforgivable and so is the unwillingness to learn. I would see where on the chart these people fall on the meter to determine how you feel about it.

 

[Brian894x4]

Forgive me if this was already covered in the thread, but one thing to consider, especially if you have an IFS Toyota or a solid axle Toyota with stock birfs is that when you are tugging someout out backwards, you're putting all the weight and torque of the rig, plus the added stress of towing on the front axle and this a great way to break axles and birfs. Especially if you just happen to be turning at the same time.

I don't mind towing, but if I have to choose between towing someone backwards or winching, I'll winch everytime, just for that reason.

 

[goodtimes]

Forgive me if this was already covered in the thread, but one thing to consider, especially if you have an IFS Toyota or a solid axle Toyota with stock birfs is that when you are tugging someout out backwards, you're putting all the weight and torque of the rig, plus the added stress of towing on the front axle and this a great way to break axles and birfs. Especially if you just happen to be turning at the same time.

This holds true for pretty much every axle out there. Even with my dana 44 up front and small tires (33"), I will not pull someone while I'm in reverse.