winter tire discussion: A/T vs. M/T

[Clay]

I disagree about the MT/R's completely. I will totally admit, however, that snow conditions can change by the minute or the location drasticly, but I have been living in the snow all my adult life and driving on steep icy roads the whole time. I had bfg a/t's before the MT/R's and they didn't do every well at all. Many, many people here are putting them on even stock vehicles because they do so well in the snow and on icy roads. The next most popular tire that every gets is mostly because you can put studs in them, but they do very good as well is these:

I also never had a problem with the IROK's on icy roads unless I was driving stupid and that was with a spool in the rear axle. That brings me to my point actually.....snow and icy road driving is actually more driver ability then gear.

All just my $.02 for what it's worth.

 

[devinsixtyseven]

I had bfg a/t's before the MT/R's and they didn't do every well at all.

Good to know about the IROKs...but now I'm wondering why an almost sipe-less MT/R would perform better than something with sipes and a finer tread pattern

 

[Clay]

I actually think that it has more to do with rubber compound than anything. The IROK's are the softest tire I have ever used, and the MT/R's are pretty soft as well, quite a bit softer than BFG's. Just my observations, though.

 

[devinsixtyseven]

That could be it, or a large part of it. The BFG AT/KO and the Big-O XT are both pretty hard compounds, even on a little ice the rears spin now that the fuzzies are worn off. The dedicated winters, like the Nokian and similar, are a really soft compound, and the sipes do let the tire conform better to the surface. Unfortunately I don't know if it's surface contact (friction) or mechanical keying from the additional edges from the sipes that does the job...softer compound would help both, as would sipes.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with driver skill as well; after the incident with the XTs I drove more cautiously and didn't have a problem, and I've been on the unstudded AT/KOs for a couple years now.

The studs on the previous set of XTs also made a huge difference, if I lived at altitude or in a continuous winter climate (I grew up and learned to drive in Anchorage) I'd get an open lugged tread with studs for the best of both worlds, and sipe the unstudded blocks myself. The pattern on the XTs was great in deep snow, I made Vail Pass in a heavy snowstorm with a good half a foot of coverage and no other traffic with the studded XTs, but on ice they weren't worth a sour fart without studs.

-Sean

*edit* the MT/R appears to have more siping than I thought...maybe it's just cut so close it's hard to see on a new tire. These are Brian's tires:

 

[asteffes]

I read on myrovers.com that some folks sipe just the center blocks for better grip in snow but to preserve the shoulder blocks on pavement. Anyone else try this method? It looks like the tire in the previous picture is siped this way.

 

[Clay]

There are more edges and corners on an MTR than a bfg style of mud terrain.

 

[p1michaud]

Winter tires

*edit* the MT/R appears to have more siping than I thought...maybe it's just cut so close it's hard to see on a new tire. These are Brian's tires:

Sean, I've purchased two sets of MT/R tires and they did not have any siping. I believe that Brian would have had them siped, Chris did with his 32" MT/R tires.

I've driven the last two winters on MTR tires with no issues but the driver has a lot to do with this. When its snowing and the roads are messy, you have to slow down and take your time. The MTR tires do great in fresh snow. As for packed snow and ice, they are not better than any other tire. The only thing that would help in this conditions is a studded winter tire or tire chains (chains are not practical for road driving in most cases). Anther thing to consider if you do lots of winter driving is go with a narrow tire. You can keep the same diameter, but go with a norrow tire (i.e. 33" x 12.5" to 33" x 10.5"). Driving in snowy conditions on a regular basis, I can say that there is no substitute for a real winter tire.

Cheers :beer:,
P

 

[devinsixtyseven]

Well, there's an Ideal tool on the way, I'm gonna give the A/Ts the business and see what happens. I have to use 4WD or they're like ice skates...the Nokians I've tried were so much better.

The guys on TS.com that have run the MT/R and other similar treads reported the same thing...no better or worse than the AT/KO (surprised me) or M/T (not surprising). Kinda makes me think about running siped MT/Rs as my next "all around" tire, since the performance on low-traction surfaces sounds similar to the AT/KO but the offroad performance is reported as much better.

-Sean

 

[Pskhaat]

As other's have said and I always did when I lived in the CO hills: if you don't do a true winter tire like a Blizzak or green diamond tread compounds, insist on a tire that can be (re-)studded. If you've never driven studded tires, they really are like cat claws on ice and get you through some amazing stuff. The studs may only last a season, but re-stud 'em the next winter.

 

[crawler#976]

Arizona has some funny, funny snow...

Here's my take on AZ snow wheelin' - and I've been doing AZ snow for a looooooooong time.

A/T's just don't have enough traction when it's needed the most. If you want better ice performance outta a M/T, get'm siped. We use MT/R's on the '05 Taco with siping - they work great on ice and snow.

Mark

 

[Clay]

I'm putting this to the test right now.

I'm on a road trip to Denver, CO, but I'm stuck in Laramie, WY right now due to road conditions. The roads have been icy and the wind is very bad. My tires have been doing great on the road, much better than the other truck in the caravan with AT tires.

I have been looking around to see what people who live here are using and most seem to be using an aggressive AT of some sort. This is Wyoming, though so your milage may very. Temps have been between 20 and 5 with 30-50mph winds.

 

[Schattenjager]

Most tires represent a compromise in some areas for strength in others. If you are after snow / ice traction then sipes are the way to go. However, the sipping machine at the tire store cuts wider sipes than the factory casts into a snow tire. If you look at an after-the-fact sip job, the rubber needs to deform slightly in order to expose the bitting edges created by the slit. Even more important - the sipes should RETAIN SNOW while the blocks eject bigger chunks. Snow on snow is the best traction. If you have a chance to look at a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2's you will see the obvious difference in factory sipes and after market cuts.

I went out in the wilds of Alaska today and took this shot of my BFG AT KO's. It shows how well they hold snow while also keeping the tread clear of buildup. I was pushing snow with my front bumper (slightly) for over 1/2 mile before I chickened out (told everyone I was hungry) Yeah - they slipped a lot - far more than my old set of Hakkapeliittas would have - but they did a great job in 18" + of snow (pic 2) and will also serve me well in the summer, unlike dedicated snows...

Just my .02 thats worth even less...