Tow strap vs. Kinetic rope

[leverett]

this picture does demonsrate a succesfull recovery but those trucks are armored and there are no visible people close (there shoulnt be in any case of recovery but some cases require a spoter) our trucks are not armored and saftey is more important than makeing the recovery quicker if you take your time and prep the recovered vehicle(sand tracks, digging, etc.) this recovery may take less force with a recovery strap and be a whole lot safer. it is not fun trying to dodge a broken kenetic strap.

 

[michaelgroves]

if you need to use a kenetic strap you need to let some one else recover the vehicle. they are one of the worst things you can use for recovery and very likely to snap after a short amount of use, recovery straps are more usefull cuz you can use then as an extended winch line plus they are cheaper just dont get one with hooks

I certainly wouldn't go that far! Yes, they are more inherently dangerous than other methods of recovery, and I would use other methods in preference where circumstances permit. But there's no doubt they have their place in a well-stocked recovery bag!

 

[Master-Pull]

they are one of the worst things you can use for recovery and very likely to snap after a short amount of use

That's a bold statement, and not one we've found to be accurate in the 13 years MP has sold them.

For instance, the military training company that was involved with that picture has a Master-Pull Super-Yanker kinetic recovery strap that they have been using for the last eight years with constant use. As long as you make sure the size of the strap is appropriate to the vehicle being recovered, they are quite durable and safe.

 

[michaelgroves]

Hey folks-

I just read this thread and am reminded of why I like ExPo as much as I do. There have been some very good points raised regarding the video Alex posted; while focusing on demonstrating the impressive properties of the Yanker, some basics and fundamentals were over looked. For that, I apologize. The video will be taken down tomorrow; I'd rather have nothing showing its use than showing potientally unsafe usage.

In Alex's defense, I know the spot where it was shot (it does look a great deal more trecherous in the video than in reality) and the people involved and I have high confidence that there was no appreciable risk to those involved. That being said, the video is coming down for the issues I mentioned above, to be replaced by one that more accurately and safely shows how to use the Master-Pull products.

Now that (I hope) that's settled, I'll leave you with a picture of a far more impressive use of the Master-Pull Super Yanker. The ~30,000 lbs RG-31 MRAP being extracted was completely stuck; without a kinetic strap this recovery would have required a lot more work as opposed to this one quick tug:

Thanks for patientence and attention to detail,

Matt Adair
Director, Off-Road Division
Master-Pull Recovery Gear
Matt@masterpull.com

You'll get a lot of kudos for that constructive attitude, Matt. A lot of suppliers would have made excuses or defended their errors, rather than looking for ways to improve the situation.

Seeing the armoured vehicles being used reminded me, while I was in the South African Army (Logistics), SOP for vehicle recovery was that Kinetic straps were ONLY for use on armoured vehicles. We had some absolutely massive kinetic straps for tanks and SPGs. Of course, when you're pulling out a stuck army Land Rover with an 8x8 recovery truck, you don't need a kinetic strap!

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Of course, when you're pulling out a stuck army Land Rover with an 8x8 recovery truck, you don't need a kinetic strap!

Absolutly, like all things there is a time and place for them.

-----Matt-----

 

[leverett]

after a little thought i have noticed that my comments are a little rash. when used properly a k strap seems preaty usefull but the fact of the matter is that there are illresponsible people that have used them wrong and swayed my opinon. this was in no way directed at mp they have great products. i apoligise if i have offended anyone i am simply voiceing my opinon

 

[muskyman]

Read my post just before yours; they were removed last week.

-----Matt-----

This is the internet...sometimes things just dont go away

http://s847.photobucket.com/albums/ab36/themuskyman2009/?action=view&current=DSCN0080.flv

http://s847.photobucket.com/albums/ab36/themuskyman2009/?action=view&current=DSCN0078.flv

http://s847.photobucket.com/albums/ab36/themuskyman2009/?action=view&current=DSCN0080-1.flv

And I am not reposting this to be a *****, I feel that this is a good thread and without the videos a number of the posts no longer serve the purpose.

I have used kinetic straps for a long time and fear and respect them because of what I have seen. It is important for people to understand that you are suposed to use just enough energy to break the truck loose and then let the truck drive out from there. Using to much speed(energy) and continuing to tow the now unstuck truck is where problems start.

Like I said earlier in the thread I like master pull products and use a master pull line on my hydraulic winch so I dont have a bone to pick here at all.

 

[overlander]

I have been using a kinetic rope for years and have found them to be safe, and my preferred method of recovery. Most "stuck" situations are mostly related to very mild bogging or loss of differential tractions, with little vehicular resistance. in these circumstances, I use the kinetic rope. I have never however even attempted a full throttle kinetic rope recovery. What I generally do is put moderate slack in the rope, have the recovery vehicle remain in neutral, then give a little gas and immediately go to neutral while the rope stretches. Usually the momentum of the vehicle is just enough to give the stuck vehicle enough bump to regain traction.

For a serious high resistance stuck situation, I would use the winch. Those seem to be pretty rare however for the people I off road with.

It's the "pedal to the metal" recovery attitudes that give these ropes a bad name.

As of late, the military is moving more towards kinetic ropes for recovery, but they are mostly armored as mentioned.

 

[7wt]

I love all this kinetic hatred. I think most of it boils down to not using the right thing at the right time or past experience with the wrong type of strap. Many moons ago I use to rely on the tow strap and a slight jerk or pop to unstuck a stuck truck. I hated the bone jarring feel, it felt like something would break at any second.

Recently at the last OEX training, we used a Masterpull rope to pull a very stuck truck out of some deep and sticky mud. I was absolutely shocked with the results. It was the easiest, smoothest and safest recovery I have ever done. The rope did exactly what they say it does, it delivered a nice soft pull that freed Streakerfreak's truck post hast. Now we did slowly ramp up the energy used by starting with a slow run with a very small amount of slack in the rope. When that didn't work, we did it a little faster with a little more slack until we found the right amount of energy to free him. This rope was the safest recovery for the situation. The Masterpull experience was nothing like my past use of the recovery straps. No harsh jerk, pop, or anything else that felt the slighest unsafe. I was so impressed that I whipped out the card and ordered one the following week. I just got it today and I can't wait to use it in anger. Poopoo them all you want but the Masterpull rope will be the first thing I grab when the situation warrants.

In the pic, you can faintly make out the rope hooked up to Phil's truck. His truck was about 20' or so away from the HiLux. The rope had enough slack to lay on the ground for the bulk of it's length.

 

[Master-Pull]

Recently at the last OEX training, we used a Masterpull rope to pull a very stuck truck out of some deep and sticky mud. I was absolutely shocked with the results. It was the easiest, smoothest and safest recovery I have ever done. The rope did exactly what they say it does, it delivered a nice soft pull that freed Streakerfreak's truck post hast. Now we did slowly ramp up the energy used by starting with a slow run with a very small amount of slack in the rope. When that didn't work, we did it a little faster with a little more slack until we found the right amount of energy to free him. This rope was the safest recovery for the situation. The Masterpull experience was nothing like my past use of the recovery straps. No harsh jerk, pop, or anything else that felt the slighest unsafe. I was so impressed that I whipped out the card and ordered one the following week. I just got it today and I can't wait to use it in anger. Poopoo them all you want but the Masterpull rope will be the first thing I grab when the situation warrants.

Glad to hear your positive impression; people are always amazed by how gentle the experience is giving the amount of force that's involved.

Thanks for your business, too!

 

[emmodg]

KERR is great stuff WHEN it used at the right time!

There is no sense in immediately imparting kinetic energy into anything if a simple tow-out will suffice. I think many people here would be surprised what a simple tow strap will do in many situations. (Again, tow straps should NEVER be used for kinetic recovery - I am referring to tow-out recovery only here.)

I agree that many times people see KERR used the wrong way and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth. They can work wonders when the time is right that is when one has either tried a tow-out FIRST or has deduced beforehand that KERR is the only option: ie, smaller vehicle recovering larger one or poor tractive surface...

We sat an MRAP on a sand dune - it was like a turtle on a fence post! It took numerous "yanks" with a recovery STRAP to get it off the dune!

PS - "Master Pull" - What training company were you referring to?

 

[Master-Pull]

PS - "Master Pull" - What training company were you referring to?

We work with Tier 1 Off-Road. http://www.tier1off-road.com/

-Alex

 

[michaelgroves]

I love all this kinetic hatred.

Speaking for myself, I hope I made it clear it isn't "kinetic hatred", it's kinetic caution.

The main reason kinetic recoveries are so effective is because of the forces they unleash, which can be much greater than those generated by winches and towing. The operative phrase is "can be much greater", because therein lies the danger. With a winch, you know the upper limits. Even with towing, you have a good idea of what the maximum pull is. But with a kinetic rope, it's hard to judge what forces you might be imparting - an extra foot or two of run-up, or a little bit of extra throttle, or some extra traction, can easily double the pulling force.

Worse still, by it's nature, you can't apply the force slowly. You can't pull little by little, while a spotter tells you what's happening. You can't back-off and adjust the angle of pull, or a bit of your rigging.

(And this all assumes you are actually using the kinetic strap properly. Don't let's get started on how dangerous it is in the hands of yeehahs!)

Those are the reasons a kinetic strap is in my recovery bag, but it's only used when other tools won't do the job satisfactorily. It's not "hatred".

 

[UK4X4]

Rock , obstacle or precarious position = Strap

Sand , mud = kinetic, especially if you are in the sand -mud too

as with a strap you'll just get that sinking feeling

Ie high centered on a dune kinetic - high centered on a rock strap

All recovery methods have risk associated with them due to forces involved,
we've all seen the U-tube- F#ups

slow - controlled and safe being optimum what ever you use

 

[michaelgroves]

Rock , obstacle or precarious position = Strap

Sand , mud = kinetic, especially if you are in the sand -mud too

as with a strap you'll just get that sinking feeling

Ie high centered on a dune kinetic - high centered on a rock strap

As a rule of thumb, I agree. If the choice is limited to those two methods. Add a winch into the mix?