Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Connect a TIG torch to it.
Best Welder
- Thread starter midtraveltaco
- Start date
Is it the same quality as if you just bought a TIG? Is the kit expensive? I'm trying to understand why everyone woludn't just do this.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Just hook it up. Not sure what you're asking.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
Ideally you'd also have a high frequency generator in the system and some sort of foot switch to turn the gas flow on and off, but it's as Tom says, just hook up an air cooled torch to the stinger lead of the buzz box and you've got a strike arc TIG. Not all TIG welding is done with a 'throttle' external to the power supply. It becomes a little more like stick welding in that you have to compensate for not being able to vary the current, but it works and is used in the field more frequently than you might imagine. A fair number of older race car chassis fabricators used strike arc in their shops. Positioning oneself AND the foot pedal where you could make the weld under the car is not always an easy thing to do. (BT,DT!) Most of the new guys use the thumb knob torches now, but those haven't been around that long.
Beowulf, I'm far from qualified to comment on a buzz box. I too used one for the first, I dunno, 5 years of my welding career, but I have not even turned one on in about 2 decades.
Beowulf, I'm far from qualified to comment on a buzz box. I too used one for the first, I dunno, 5 years of my welding career, but I have not even turned one on in about 2 decades.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
A dedicated TIG welder usually has high freq, and often plumbed for water cooled torches (to give you a hight duty cycle on the torch) and a connector for a remote amperage control. So you have a lot more versatility. For really high quality welding, tungsten inclusion can be a significant weld defect, which you can get with strike arc TIG.
But for 99.9% of welding you might do for a car, it's not an issue.
As for costs, you can get a good 150amp air cooled torch for about $60, $35-$45 for a regulator, and a tank of Argon (for mild steel). Then you need your consumables, TIG wire and a pack of electrods (which are only semi-consumable).
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Well, more specifically the details. This is like "How do you build a house?" "With a hammer".
Even my cheapest TIG has a high frequency start, post flow timer, "throttle", etc. I hadn't ever heard of scratch starting TIG, or how you'd hook up the gas.
Wish I had prices like you're suggesting. Last time I looked, a regulator was over $100 (wanted one for backflow) and the bottle was like $150 for a big one. I used to lease the bottle for $70/year until I knew better.
A note to the newbies about air cooled torches... Just some practical experience. I haven't had too much trouble when welding steel. You'd have to have a lot of welding lined up before you'd overheat the torch. But, when welding 1/8" aluminum which is common, I can only do maybe 3-6 inches at a time before the torch is too hot to touch. That's because I have to use full power for it.
IIRC, I'm using Argon as a do-all, means I'm using it on Aluminum. Something you wrote suggested it's only for steel?
KG6BWS
Explorer
Well, more specifically the details. This is like "How do you build a house?" "With a hammer".
Even my cheapest TIG has a high frequency start, post flow timer, "throttle", etc. I hadn't ever heard of scratch starting TIG, or how you'd hook up the gas.
Wish I had prices like you're suggesting. Last time I looked, a regulator was over $100 (wanted one for backflow) and the bottle was like $150 for a big one. I used to lease the bottle for $70/year until I knew better.
A note to the newbies about air cooled torches... Just some practical experience. I haven't had too much trouble when welding steel. You'd have to have a lot of welding lined up before you'd overheat the torch. But, when welding 1/8" aluminum which is common, I can only do maybe 3-6 inches at a time before the torch is too hot to touch. That's because I have to use full power for it.
IIRC, I'm using Argon as a do-all, means I'm using it on Aluminum. Something you wrote suggested it's only for steel?
scratch start tig is actually done quite often, at least in the oil field industry. you can use a copper "start" plate to cut down on contamination. the copper allows the arc to start but wont stick to the electrode. only works on steel though, as far as i know.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
For your aluminum welding try a small bottle of Helium instead of the Argon. It will cut down your power needs noticeably!
"Air Cooled" is sort of a misnomer since it is actually the shielding gas doing the cooling. CSU, Chico had all air cooled torches, but BIG (200 amp +) and it was rare that I had to set them down for being too hot.
"Air Cooled" is sort of a misnomer since it is actually the shielding gas doing the cooling. CSU, Chico had all air cooled torches, but BIG (200 amp +) and it was rare that I had to set them down for being too hot.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Thanks for the tip on the helium, but for the amount I do, it's probably not worth buying another bottle, etc. I'll see. Course it would be great for parties...
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
A picture is worth 1000 words.
Here's my Weldcraft/Victor/Smith setup.
Weldcraft WP-17V with a gas flow valve (allows post flow control)
Far right, you connect the power cable to your stinger, or directly to your welder.
Center is the gas connection.
I have a Victor HVTS (two stage) multi-gas flowmeter (on the right) for my torches, and a Smiths single stage argon flow meter for back flushing when I weld stainless. This would have a separate hose connected to it run to the work piece.
For someone just doing odd things at home, I wouldn't suggest a two stage flowmeter like my Victor as they are anywhere from $250-$350 now (I've had mine about for about 25 years). Single stage would be fine, and are a lot cheaper. The Smiths flowmeter sells for about $90.
If you're flowmeter shopping on ebay, Victor's nomenclature is:
SR - Single stage
HSR - Single stage with flowmeter
VTS - Two stage
HVTS - Two stage with flowmeter
Two stage regulators will maintain a constant outlet pressure as the tank pressure decreases. Useful if you are doing a lot of welding (or cutting, applies to oxy-acty regulators too) and really use up a lot of gas in one go. For most peoples garage welding it's not needed as you don't use that much in a day and you'll shut it down and open it the next day.
A couple more tips.
For high pressure cylinders, like Oxygen, Argon, Helium and so on, you want to open the valve all the way because they dual seat valves, one to seal it when closed, and another to seal the stem when open. The gas will tend to leak around the stem if you don't open it all the way. Forget to close it and a week later you could come back to an empty tank.
These tanks can be stored and used on their sides without problem.
For flammable gases like Acetylene you only need to open it 1-1 1/2 turns.
Never use on its side as the Acetylene is dissolved in acetone and the liquid will run out the line. And if you've had it on it's side, let it sit upright for a min of 30 min before using.
The reason you normally use helium for aluminum is because it makes the arc hotter, which you need because of the thermal conductivity of aluminum. So you can set your amperage lower.
I hope, between the others and I, we've answered the questions.
BTW, I think I have one or two of the Smiths flowmeters NIB I'll sell for $60.
Smiths H1957B-580
Here's my Weldcraft/Victor/Smith setup.
Weldcraft WP-17V with a gas flow valve (allows post flow control)
Far right, you connect the power cable to your stinger, or directly to your welder.
Center is the gas connection.
I have a Victor HVTS (two stage) multi-gas flowmeter (on the right) for my torches, and a Smiths single stage argon flow meter for back flushing when I weld stainless. This would have a separate hose connected to it run to the work piece.
For someone just doing odd things at home, I wouldn't suggest a two stage flowmeter like my Victor as they are anywhere from $250-$350 now (I've had mine about for about 25 years). Single stage would be fine, and are a lot cheaper. The Smiths flowmeter sells for about $90.
If you're flowmeter shopping on ebay, Victor's nomenclature is:
SR - Single stage
HSR - Single stage with flowmeter
VTS - Two stage
HVTS - Two stage with flowmeter
Two stage regulators will maintain a constant outlet pressure as the tank pressure decreases. Useful if you are doing a lot of welding (or cutting, applies to oxy-acty regulators too) and really use up a lot of gas in one go. For most peoples garage welding it's not needed as you don't use that much in a day and you'll shut it down and open it the next day.
A couple more tips.
For high pressure cylinders, like Oxygen, Argon, Helium and so on, you want to open the valve all the way because they dual seat valves, one to seal it when closed, and another to seal the stem when open. The gas will tend to leak around the stem if you don't open it all the way. Forget to close it and a week later you could come back to an empty tank.
These tanks can be stored and used on their sides without problem.
For flammable gases like Acetylene you only need to open it 1-1 1/2 turns.
Never use on its side as the Acetylene is dissolved in acetone and the liquid will run out the line. And if you've had it on it's side, let it sit upright for a min of 30 min before using.
The reason you normally use helium for aluminum is because it makes the arc hotter, which you need because of the thermal conductivity of aluminum. So you can set your amperage lower.
I hope, between the others and I, we've answered the questions.
BTW, I think I have one or two of the Smiths flowmeters NIB I'll sell for $60.
Smiths H1957B-580
Last edited:
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
How much better is Helium? 50% less heat...? The bost I can do with my setup is 1/8" at 180amps, IIRC.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
I don't really remember, it's been a long tme. You might find real figures with google, but I found this.
http://www.advantagefabricatedmetals.com/tig-welding.html
The TIG welding process utilizes a number of shielding gases including:
* argon
* argon/helium, and
* helium
Argon is superior for welding metals. It operates at a higher arc voltage, makes the arc start more easily, and is commonly used to weld mild steel, aluminum and titanium.
Helium is generally added to increase heat input (increase welding speed or weld penetration) and is used for high speed welding of mild steel and titanium. Helium offers a smaller heat affected zone and therefore, penetrates metals deeply. It also can increase the welding speed up to 40%. Helium is also commonly used to weld stainless steel and copper.
The argon/helium combination gas is used for a hotter arc in welding aluminum and aluminum alloys. It is also used in automatic welding applications.
* argon
* argon/helium, and
* helium
Argon is superior for welding metals. It operates at a higher arc voltage, makes the arc start more easily, and is commonly used to weld mild steel, aluminum and titanium.
Helium is generally added to increase heat input (increase welding speed or weld penetration) and is used for high speed welding of mild steel and titanium. Helium offers a smaller heat affected zone and therefore, penetrates metals deeply. It also can increase the welding speed up to 40%. Helium is also commonly used to weld stainless steel and copper.
The argon/helium combination gas is used for a hotter arc in welding aluminum and aluminum alloys. It is also used in automatic welding applications.
http://www.advantagefabricatedmetals.com/tig-welding.html
davegonz
Explorer
Hobart Handler 187
The best bang for the buck would be a Hobart Handler (made by Miller). I have the Hobart Handler 187. It's a 185 amp 230 Volt unit.
Info: http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler187/
The best bang for the buck would be a Hobart Handler (made by Miller). I have the Hobart Handler 187. It's a 185 amp 230 Volt unit.
Info: http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler187/
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
What's the disadvantage to Helium? Sounds like it would be better overall. Just a higher price?