Big Bend Expedition - February 2007: Planning Thread
- Thread starter Pskhaat
- Start date
- Status
RoundOut
Explorer
Old Ore Road
I've been on Old Ore Road as far as Earnst Tenaja #2, but there is much more north of there. We hiked to Earnst Spring from Earnst Tenaja #2. In 2001 or 2002 (pre 4x4) when we did this, we drove a RV from Houston to Big Bend, rented a Jeep Liberty in Study Butte and explored from the Jeep. It was a stock Jeep and handled everything we threw at it without incedent. We even took it on Black Gap Road.
My son and I went back in the late summer of 2003 with my new truck, before it was modified at all, and did the same trails and then some.
There are at least two waterfalls in the park. One on the west side of the Basin, accessed from a road near the entrance of Sam Nail Ranch. This one is called Cat Tail Falls. It's about a two mile hike from the start of the trail head, which is about a mile or so, off of Ross Maxwell Scenic Drive.
The other one, is on the east side of the Basin, accessed from Texas 118, turning south and passing Nugent Mountain and Pine Canyon campsites. Park at PC#4 and hike the Pine Canyon Trail. When we came to this one, the vegitation was pretty, but the water wasn't flowing very fast.
I've been on Old Ore Road as far as Earnst Tenaja #2, but there is much more north of there. We hiked to Earnst Spring from Earnst Tenaja #2. In 2001 or 2002 (pre 4x4) when we did this, we drove a RV from Houston to Big Bend, rented a Jeep Liberty in Study Butte and explored from the Jeep. It was a stock Jeep and handled everything we threw at it without incedent. We even took it on Black Gap Road.
My son and I went back in the late summer of 2003 with my new truck, before it was modified at all, and did the same trails and then some.
There are at least two waterfalls in the park. One on the west side of the Basin, accessed from a road near the entrance of Sam Nail Ranch. This one is called Cat Tail Falls. It's about a two mile hike from the start of the trail head, which is about a mile or so, off of Ross Maxwell Scenic Drive.
The other one, is on the east side of the Basin, accessed from Texas 118, turning south and passing Nugent Mountain and Pine Canyon campsites. Park at PC#4 and hike the Pine Canyon Trail. When we came to this one, the vegitation was pretty, but the water wasn't flowing very fast.
The BN Guy
Expedition Leader
Round I was told that it's about a 8.5 hour drive from SA that's why we're leaving early.
Wil, he's not normally a Trailer King but I can't do 65+ in my rig very easily. At least not without having to stop for fuel every 200 miles or so. Strange that the F250 will get better mpg TOWING a vehicle than mine does by itself. Plus I'd hate to break anything and have to drive home damaged.
But I hear ya. It'll be a first for me.
Wil, he's not normally a Trailer King but I can't do 65+ in my rig very easily. At least not without having to stop for fuel every 200 miles or so. Strange that the F250 will get better mpg TOWING a vehicle than mine does by itself. Plus I'd hate to break anything and have to drive home damaged.
But I hear ya. It'll be a first for me.
RoundOut
Explorer
Waypoints
Are these the waypoints...
After Study Butte, gas is available at Panther Junction and I think it is available at Rio Grande Village. We won't be far from Panther Junction it at Pine Canyon and pretty close to Rio Grande Village at the Hot Springs. I have bought gas at Panther Junction, but don't remember for sure if there is gas at Rio Grande Village. Only problem is, it is REAL expensive gas in the park. I recall a premium of at least $.50-.75 there (before gas shot up to $2 & $3.
Agreed, extra gas is a must.
Are these the waypoints...
- Thurs morn @ Study Butte
- Enter camp, check in @ Panther Junction, Along Ross Maxwell Scenic Drive, proceed to Tuff Canyon Trail
- Tuff Canyon Trail to Loop Camp for Thursday night
- Black Gap Road to Glenn Spring, Rice Tank, & Pine Canyon on Friday.
- Friday night @ PC#4
- Back down Glenn Spring to the River Road & northeast to Hot Springs.
- Old Ore Road to Telephone Canyon, Roys Peak Vista and McKinney Springs.
- Saturday night @ McKinney Springs
After Study Butte, gas is available at Panther Junction and I think it is available at Rio Grande Village. We won't be far from Panther Junction it at Pine Canyon and pretty close to Rio Grande Village at the Hot Springs. I have bought gas at Panther Junction, but don't remember for sure if there is gas at Rio Grande Village. Only problem is, it is REAL expensive gas in the park. I recall a premium of at least $.50-.75 there (before gas shot up to $2 & $3.
Agreed, extra gas is a must.
Last edited:
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
This was the original game plan, but please let me know if you believe this to be bettered (additional points added to GE file in first post):
Since you have some first-hand knowledge of the area (and mine has been pure armchair and a lot of satellite route finding) let me know if the above can be bettered by changing any camp spots, reversing route (I figured last day getting fuel would be good at Rio Grande).
- Thurs morn @ Study Butte fill up on fuel.
- Old Maverick Road to Santa Elena Canyon check in at Castolon.
- River Road to Loop Camp Thu night.
- Black Gap Road through Glenn Spring to Juniper Canyon (Fri night camp) for early arrival Friday allowing hiking on the South Rim.
- South to Hot Springs early Saturday and a stop at Rio Grande Village.
- Up past Telephone Canyon for Sat night Camp (extra camp spot identified by BiBe person)
Since you have some first-hand knowledge of the area (and mine has been pure armchair and a lot of satellite route finding) let me know if the above can be bettered by changing any camp spots, reversing route (I figured last day getting fuel would be good at Rio Grande).
RoundOut said:
Last edited:
The BN Guy
Expedition Leader
Yeah, I won't be hooking up with you guys until Loop Camp Road. Don't know how much hiking I'll do - bad knees that need some exercise. Dad told me there is gas in the Village but expect prices to be around 2.50 or more per gallon.
The BN Guy
Expedition Leader
Wow that's pretty bad. We're running around 2.13 per.
I asked this earlier and didn't see a response...do we need to call for reservations individually or has that been taken care of already? Also since I'm going in through PJ, I guess I get my permits through the office there.
I asked this earlier and didn't see a response...do we need to call for reservations individually or has that been taken care of already? Also since I'm going in through PJ, I guess I get my permits through the office there.
Last edited:
RoundOut
Explorer
The BN Guy said:
It is about 10 hours for us from northwest Houston without rush hour, that is. I doubt it is that long from SA. It's almost 3 hours from here to SA doing 70. The last time I drove to BB, I may have been moving pretty quick. I don't drive that fast any longer, my lift killed the fuel economy and I do no more than the speed limit now. :bike_rider: Well, maybe sometimes, but not much.
RoundOut
Explorer
Scott - Please comment on hiking
We've always gone during the summer and I don't recall the visitor center at Castalon being open. There is some civilization there, a convenience store and such, but no official National Park stuff during the summer, if I remember correctly. We'd better check if they open it up during the winter.
Since I have not met any of you, or hiked with any of you, I certainly wouldn't want to presume anything. It would be a long day, but my son and I could do that hike. That is a SERIOUS hike for one day. Depending on the groups ability to hike and their gear for packing, it would be much easier (or more difficult, depending on what one's perspective is) to pack overnight gear, going around the south rim and spending the night at JC#1 "designated" campsite near the intersection of Juniper Canyon Trail and Boot Canyon Trail. Then it would be an easy hike down in the morning to the trucks at Juniper Canyon #2 "primitive roadside" campsite, where we could park the trucks for the day/night trip.
You may or may not have realized the magnitude of that hike. If you didn't, please advise on the group's abilities and desires, now that this is known. If seeing the South Rim is important to everyone (I would LOVE to, as I have not been there, yet - but I'm certainly easy going) there is a shorter alternative, to park at Chisos Basin. It will cut about 5-6 miles and about 1,000' of elevation gain and loss off the round trip.
If the group wants to do the South Rim and stay at Chisos Basin, we could still go up through Black Gap Road to Glenn Spring, Rice Tank, and Nugent Mtn, and gas up again at Panther Junction on the way to Chisos Basin.
Heading back to Hot Springs, we could backtrack to Glenn Spring, and then go straight southeast along the Glenn Draw to the River Road and up to Hot Springs. Alternatively, we could stay on blacktop the whole way from Chisos Basin, past Nugent Mountain to Rio Grand Village and then to Hot Springs.
There is fuel at Rio Grand Village. I remember looking out the C-store window and seeing gas pumps. My USGS topo has a gas pump there, too.
For coming from Study Butte and seeing Santa Elena Canyon, GREAT idea to check in at Castalon. Since we come through Marathon, I've never done that. Coming from the east, maybe BN & I should gas up in Marathon, check in at Panther Junction, and take 118 to Old Maverick Road. It's an extra 30-60 miles out of our way to go through Study Butte, I think. Or, we could take this route, and just check in at Castalon with the rest of the group.pskhaat said:
We've always gone during the summer and I don't recall the visitor center at Castalon being open. There is some civilization there, a convenience store and such, but no official National Park stuff during the summer, if I remember correctly. We'd better check if they open it up during the winter.
I have a USGS topo of BiBe and just measured 6.2 miles from Juniper Canyon #2 at about 4,000' to the START of the Rim hikes at about 6,850' in elevation, near what is called Boot Spring where you pick up the Boot Canyon trail. The short trip around to the South Rim is 1.5 more miles along Boot Canyon trail. One can hike along the Southeast Rim and Northeast Rim trails another 3.3 miles back to the intersection of Boot Canyon Trail, from where it is 6.7 miles back to JC#2. That is a total trip of almost 18 miles, gaining and losing about 3,500' of eleveation along the way. We'll need the hot springs, Saturday! LOLpskhaat said:
Since I have not met any of you, or hiked with any of you, I certainly wouldn't want to presume anything. It would be a long day, but my son and I could do that hike. That is a SERIOUS hike for one day. Depending on the groups ability to hike and their gear for packing, it would be much easier (or more difficult, depending on what one's perspective is) to pack overnight gear, going around the south rim and spending the night at JC#1 "designated" campsite near the intersection of Juniper Canyon Trail and Boot Canyon Trail. Then it would be an easy hike down in the morning to the trucks at Juniper Canyon #2 "primitive roadside" campsite, where we could park the trucks for the day/night trip.
You may or may not have realized the magnitude of that hike. If you didn't, please advise on the group's abilities and desires, now that this is known. If seeing the South Rim is important to everyone (I would LOVE to, as I have not been there, yet - but I'm certainly easy going) there is a shorter alternative, to park at Chisos Basin. It will cut about 5-6 miles and about 1,000' of elevation gain and loss off the round trip.
If the group wants to do the South Rim and stay at Chisos Basin, we could still go up through Black Gap Road to Glenn Spring, Rice Tank, and Nugent Mtn, and gas up again at Panther Junction on the way to Chisos Basin.
Heading back to Hot Springs, we could backtrack to Glenn Spring, and then go straight southeast along the Glenn Draw to the River Road and up to Hot Springs. Alternatively, we could stay on blacktop the whole way from Chisos Basin, past Nugent Mountain to Rio Grand Village and then to Hot Springs.
I like the idea of camping on the north end of the park Saturday night. That puts us closer to home when we depart, LOL.pskhaat said:
pskhaat said:
There is fuel at Rio Grand Village. I remember looking out the C-store window and seeing gas pumps. My USGS topo has a gas pump there, too.
The BN Guy
Expedition Leader
Okay I'm 36 and could be in better shape. My dad is over 60 and in decent shape as well. We'll probably hike with you guys for a bit but if the going gets tough we can always go back.
BTW, talked with a coworker today and he HIGHLY recommends getting smell-proof containers. There are bears in the area and are attracted to any scent including deoderant, hairspray, hair gel, in addition to the usuals...food.
He used to use baking soda as a deoderant when he was camping. Powdery but good idea.
BTW, talked with a coworker today and he HIGHLY recommends getting smell-proof containers. There are bears in the area and are attracted to any scent including deoderant, hairspray, hair gel, in addition to the usuals...food.
He used to use baking soda as a deoderant when he was camping. Powdery but good idea.
flyingwil
Supporting Sponsor - Sierra Expeditions
The BN Guy said:
My wife is recovering from her 4th foot surgery and is now pregnant. We probably will not be doing any hiking.
On a side note, she just got relased from the Dr. to return to work, so it is now iffy if she'll even be able to come. I'll know more around the 20th.
Hey fellas,
I've been keeping an eye on this thread and planning my vacation time so that I can meet up with you folks. I live in Tijeras, NM and will be coming down either I-25 or Hwy 285 through Carlsbad, NM depending where we meet up in the park. If dogs are allowed in this park, I'll be bringing my faithful travel companion Border Collie mix with me.
It seems that a meeting place (hwy 170 and hwy 118) has been established for Thursday morning so I'll aim for that location. My plan is to depart Tijeras on Wed morning(ish) and arrive at the meeting location or near there by Wed night. I can also meet up with anyone traveling from the West on I-40 if you care to convoy. Las Cruces is almost four hours from my house.
Looking forward to meeting y'all and checking out this great area. Please advise on 2M repeaters in the area.
edit: never mind on the repeater, I see that it's been posted already!
Cheers,
Ali
KE5LED
I've been keeping an eye on this thread and planning my vacation time so that I can meet up with you folks. I live in Tijeras, NM and will be coming down either I-25 or Hwy 285 through Carlsbad, NM depending where we meet up in the park. If dogs are allowed in this park, I'll be bringing my faithful travel companion Border Collie mix with me.
It seems that a meeting place (hwy 170 and hwy 118) has been established for Thursday morning so I'll aim for that location. My plan is to depart Tijeras on Wed morning(ish) and arrive at the meeting location or near there by Wed night. I can also meet up with anyone traveling from the West on I-40 if you care to convoy. Las Cruces is almost four hours from my house.
Looking forward to meeting y'all and checking out this great area. Please advise on 2M repeaters in the area.
edit: never mind on the repeater, I see that it's been posted already!
Cheers,
Ali
KE5LED
Last edited:
The BN Guy
Expedition Leader
Welcome aboard Ali! I think we're gonna have a great time. Not sure about dogs. Scratch that...just talked to my mom and she said yes you can bring dogs but they have to be on a leash and clean up after them. I'd still call the ranger station to confirm that.
Scott I tried calling you back yesterday but not sure I had the right number. Will try again tonight. Look for a PM.
Scott I tried calling you back yesterday but not sure I had the right number. Will try again tonight. Look for a PM.
The BN Guy
Expedition Leader
Round I just noticed when I said we're leaving at 5 o'clock I meant Thursday at 5am. Don't know if that makes a difference.
- Status