Okay, I wasn't born yesterday, but what is the advantage of diesel over gas? In my area diesel costs more and I hear that it is more economical. I understand the reason in semis, longer stroke, more power at lower RPMs, but what's the advantage say in a Land Rover or Suburban ora small Mitsu? In smaller vehicles seems a diesel 4 banger is more desirable....why is that if fuel costs more?
Diesel VS. Gas
- Thread starter Ozarker
- Start date
arcteryx
Adventurer
Diesel produces more torque. more efficient. It cost more, but you have to calculate the cost per mile, not mpg. A good comparison is to take a gasser Jetta and a diesel Jetta. Plug in the numbers for MPG and cost per gallon. Also, you can run alternative fuels and not be coupled gas or propane. I dont know why diesel costs more though. I think it's because worldwide use of diesel is up, at least I read that within that last year.
Because of the efficiency, Diesel is more desirable. Just look at he market- a diesel jetta or excursion holds it's value much more than it's gasser counterpart. If you can get a diesel, do it.
Because of the efficiency, Diesel is more desirable. Just look at he market- a diesel jetta or excursion holds it's value much more than it's gasser counterpart. If you can get a diesel, do it.
SWITAWI
Doesn't Get Out Enough
I would say the main advantage is that diesel fuel carries more energy potential than gasoline. Beyond that it is a less-refined petroleum product and should be cheaper to produce, but all you have to do is look at the worldwide shipping industry to understand the huge demand for diesel. Simply put, what powers the truck that hauls gas to your local filling station?..
I recently ran across this video and, while I'm not trying to give anyone a tree-hugger vibe, the usage numbers are staggering - http://vimeo.com/22655744
I recently ran across this video and, while I'm not trying to give anyone a tree-hugger vibe, the usage numbers are staggering - http://vimeo.com/22655744
Wow, puts things in perspective, thanks BP!
I always thought gas was more volitile than diesel, since it's harder to burn, I thought. Have no idea really. I have driven diesel vehicles but never owned one. I know there is the smell with diesel. And why do people just let them run...I understand a tractor running as I was told it takes less fuel to run it than start it, but they let some run for an hour, can't imagine that being true.
You see someguy in a large Dodge pickup and go eat lunch and let is truck run...now why would you do that and just burn up fuel? (Probably my last question about it, lol, just always wondered about that..)
I always thought gas was more volitile than diesel, since it's harder to burn, I thought. Have no idea really. I have driven diesel vehicles but never owned one. I know there is the smell with diesel. And why do people just let them run...I understand a tractor running as I was told it takes less fuel to run it than start it, but they let some run for an hour, can't imagine that being true.
You see someguy in a large Dodge pickup and go eat lunch and let is truck run...now why would you do that and just burn up fuel? (Probably my last question about it, lol, just always wondered about that..)
TreeTopFlyer
Adventurer
Because he thinks that with the big 6" set of stacks coming out his bed he is a big rig. I don't know. I let mine run only when someone is in it and I am going into the store to get something or my kiddo fell alseep while going down to the lake and it's 105 outside with no breeze.
Big rigs will burn about a gallon an hour. But they leave them running because their starters are quite a bit more expensive to be starting over and over again AND because they have a lot of things powered up, easier to just keep it running. A lot of truck stops are now using the big yellow hose looking thing that connects up to the window of the truck, it has a Cat5 jack, AC, and HVAC combined. They pay an hourly fee while in use, then move on. It's cheaper than leaving the truck running at $4+/hr
At one point I had figured out how much my jetta and Ex burned per hour idling, but I gave up caring about it and have forgotten. Maybe when it gets to $9/gal I will remember again :ylsmoke:
Diesel engines are renowned for their high torque production at low RPM, and their fuel economy. But the engines are more expensive to produce, diesel fuel is more expensive, and controlling diesel emissions is less well understood than for gas engines.
Gas engine technology is advancing, reducing the advantage of diesel. Turbocharged, direct injected gas engines can be made to produce high torque at low RPM. Ford's Ecoboost V6 is the first example used in a light truck. Other engines, still in the lab, offer even more impressive performance. British engine developer Ricardo's Ethanol Boost Direct Injection project extracts 650+ ft-lbs of torque at low RPM from a 3.2L V6 running E85. The V6 is more compact and lighter than the gas or diesel engines currently offered in one ton pickups. http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_ethanol_delivers_massive/
Manufacturers are developing diesel performance as well. Cummins is working with Nissan to develop a 2.8L diesel for the Titan pickup. The engine will produce around 350 ft-lbs of torque, and get close to 30 mpg. The new engine may appear in Fall of 2014. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...ng-four-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan-titan.html
The problem is that the 2011 Ford Ecoboost V6 gas engine in the F150 produces 420 ft-lbs, and is rated to deliver 22 mpg highway. By 2014, Ford will improve on both those numbers. Will consumers spend more to get a 4 cylinder diesel that uses more expensive fuel? Or will they prefer a gas engine model? We'll see in 2015.
Gas engine technology is advancing, reducing the advantage of diesel. Turbocharged, direct injected gas engines can be made to produce high torque at low RPM. Ford's Ecoboost V6 is the first example used in a light truck. Other engines, still in the lab, offer even more impressive performance. British engine developer Ricardo's Ethanol Boost Direct Injection project extracts 650+ ft-lbs of torque at low RPM from a 3.2L V6 running E85. The V6 is more compact and lighter than the gas or diesel engines currently offered in one ton pickups. http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_ethanol_delivers_massive/
Manufacturers are developing diesel performance as well. Cummins is working with Nissan to develop a 2.8L diesel for the Titan pickup. The engine will produce around 350 ft-lbs of torque, and get close to 30 mpg. The new engine may appear in Fall of 2014. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...ng-four-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan-titan.html
The problem is that the 2011 Ford Ecoboost V6 gas engine in the F150 produces 420 ft-lbs, and is rated to deliver 22 mpg highway. By 2014, Ford will improve on both those numbers. Will consumers spend more to get a 4 cylinder diesel that uses more expensive fuel? Or will they prefer a gas engine model? We'll see in 2015.
SWITAWI
Doesn't Get Out Enough
V6 Turbo vs 4cyl Diesel...
^^^That's a very interesting question, especially considering the pickup sales numbers for May 2011. Ford sold more V6s than V8s and EcoBoost-equipped F-150s made up a surprising 41% of total half-ton sales for them. Seems Ford found a sweet spot in the market at just the right time.
All credit for these articles to Mike Levine...
Ford V6s outselling V8s - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06/ford-f-150-v-6-engines-outselling-v-8s.html
May 2011 Top 10 Pickup Sales - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06/may-2011-top-10-pickup-truck-sales.html
^^^That's a very interesting question, especially considering the pickup sales numbers for May 2011. Ford sold more V6s than V8s and EcoBoost-equipped F-150s made up a surprising 41% of total half-ton sales for them. Seems Ford found a sweet spot in the market at just the right time.
All credit for these articles to Mike Levine...
Ford V6s outselling V8s - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06/ford-f-150-v-6-engines-outselling-v-8s.html
May 2011 Top 10 Pickup Sales - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06/may-2011-top-10-pickup-truck-sales.html
Patman
Explorer
Gas vs. Diesel is an age old discussion, and can be very polarizing, especially by people who have never owned one (the majority)
Mileage advantage can be HUGE if driven correctly, just like a hybrid, if you drive it poorly you gain nothing. I used to have an '01 Cummins 6 speed Dually 4x, towing my 60 for a combined trailer weight of about 8k lbs, I would easily pull 19mpg going down 5 at 70mph. Do that with a gas motor. VW had diesels on the market in the early 80's getting 50mpg. Now they have 70mpg ones in the rest of the world. Not hybrids, just normal cars.
Power is a whole different issue. It may help to understand that horsepower is essentially a made up number. Calculated by measuring torque and the speed at which it is delivered. To over simplify, high torque low hp, will deliver tons of power but rev slow. Low torque with high HP can do the same amount of “work” but will do so at high rpm beating everything to death. This is why a Cummins has a service life of 400k miles, and a 350 is closer to 150k miles with half the “power”.
Emissions can be a hassle, but the technology is there. Once the EPA stops worrying about regs (won't happen) and ONLY worries about actual tail pipe emissions, the industry could make some serious headway.
A properly driven diesel in a correctly geared vehicle (big issue with swaps and one of the “magic” things needed to make a diesel truly work) will out perform a gas engine in every way.
The newer gas engines like the Ecoboost, are great, but still cannot come close to the longevity and mileage under load that the diesels do.
Now throw in the fact that diesel is a truly renewable resource when looking at biodiesel of all sorts, it's a win win.
Still more expensive to buy, but worth it in the long run if you plan on keeping it and putting alot of miles on it.
Mileage advantage can be HUGE if driven correctly, just like a hybrid, if you drive it poorly you gain nothing. I used to have an '01 Cummins 6 speed Dually 4x, towing my 60 for a combined trailer weight of about 8k lbs, I would easily pull 19mpg going down 5 at 70mph. Do that with a gas motor. VW had diesels on the market in the early 80's getting 50mpg. Now they have 70mpg ones in the rest of the world. Not hybrids, just normal cars.
Power is a whole different issue. It may help to understand that horsepower is essentially a made up number. Calculated by measuring torque and the speed at which it is delivered. To over simplify, high torque low hp, will deliver tons of power but rev slow. Low torque with high HP can do the same amount of “work” but will do so at high rpm beating everything to death. This is why a Cummins has a service life of 400k miles, and a 350 is closer to 150k miles with half the “power”.
Emissions can be a hassle, but the technology is there. Once the EPA stops worrying about regs (won't happen) and ONLY worries about actual tail pipe emissions, the industry could make some serious headway.
A properly driven diesel in a correctly geared vehicle (big issue with swaps and one of the “magic” things needed to make a diesel truly work) will out perform a gas engine in every way.
The newer gas engines like the Ecoboost, are great, but still cannot come close to the longevity and mileage under load that the diesels do.
Now throw in the fact that diesel is a truly renewable resource when looking at biodiesel of all sorts, it's a win win.
Still more expensive to buy, but worth it in the long run if you plan on keeping it and putting alot of miles on it.
Master-Pull
Supporting Sponsor
Not to get off topic too much, but that ecoboost engine was sweet. I got to see those motors used first hand in Baja this year, the owner of TrailReady wheels was on the crew for them and the motors seemed very impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSLBBzJS388
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0yTTvh_Ikg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxN3JnQ47b0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W_bbzRLdDM
-Alex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSLBBzJS388
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0yTTvh_Ikg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxN3JnQ47b0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W_bbzRLdDM
-Alex
Well, I'd take that F-150!
With the diesel, do you have to modify the engine to burn veggie oil or do you just mix it in with the diesel? If many strat doing that, the resturants will start selling the stuff!
There is a guy here in town that runs veggie oil in an old Merc station wagon, but don't know what he had to do. I do know his garage is full of plastic jugs from collecting the stuff, so if you're time and effort is worth anything....I don't know, probably messy. But in a pinch(or if it paid off) it would be nice to have the option!
And what about it starting cold, like -25, any problems?
With the diesel, do you have to modify the engine to burn veggie oil or do you just mix it in with the diesel? If many strat doing that, the resturants will start selling the stuff!
There is a guy here in town that runs veggie oil in an old Merc station wagon, but don't know what he had to do. I do know his garage is full of plastic jugs from collecting the stuff, so if you're time and effort is worth anything....I don't know, probably messy. But in a pinch(or if it paid off) it would be nice to have the option!
And what about it starting cold, like -25, any problems?
Master-Pull
Supporting Sponsor
Veggie oil wont work in newer diesels (especially not the high pressure common rail cummins) newer engines have injectors that really like clean fuel. Many CTD guys are forced to run after market lift pumps with filters that will filter the fuel down to the injectors specs because the dodge fuel filter doesn't do a good job of that. If you run veggie oil you will be changing fuel more often and possibly changing out injectors too, and with a set of dodge injectors going for over 2k this isn't something you want to do more then once (or ever if you are lucky). Veggie oil is dirty and full of particulates, you can filter it before hand and get it down to an acceptable size to run on older motors but for the newer ones I wouldn't risk it.
This is information that I have collected from some smarter diesel guys since bio is getting more popular up here in Bellingham WA.
-Alex
This is information that I have collected from some smarter diesel guys since bio is getting more popular up here in Bellingham WA.
-Alex
Regcabguy
Oil eater.
After I sold my '98.5,we were on the ropes about buying a newer diesel. The tie breaker was driving a 5.4 Ford F-150. Dog and a half after owning a mildly pumped up Cummins. We decided to keep the camper(thankfully) and special ordered the '07. 4 1/2 yrs later,zero dealer trips.
Once you get used to the low end torque of a diesel,it's tough to justify a gasser in a towing or hauling mode.
If I ever buy a gasser,it'll be a performance car. I haven't felt overwhelming throttle response since the muscle car era.
Ford's onto something with the Ecoboost and the Baja 1000 findings were impressive. $49,000 for a loaded Ecoboost though?
Once you get used to the low end torque of a diesel,it's tough to justify a gasser in a towing or hauling mode.
If I ever buy a gasser,it'll be a performance car. I haven't felt overwhelming throttle response since the muscle car era.
Ford's onto something with the Ecoboost and the Baja 1000 findings were impressive. $49,000 for a loaded Ecoboost though?
Rot Box
Explorer
I could go on for days why I prefer diesel engines, but I'll sum it up with this...
In 91 my current truck came with either a 5.8L gas, 7.5L gas or a 7.3L diesel engine. When I pull the canyon with a load I'm REALLY happy to not have the 5.8--when I fill up I'm REALLY happy to not have a 7.5L. In my experience with the 7.5l engines, Loaded or unloaded Diesel fuel would have to cost nearly 30-40% more than gas for me to ever consider going with a big block gasser in the same truck. When I compare the Cummins to the V10 option in Dodge trucks it really makes me wonder :Wow1:
In 91 my current truck came with either a 5.8L gas, 7.5L gas or a 7.3L diesel engine. When I pull the canyon with a load I'm REALLY happy to not have the 5.8--when I fill up I'm REALLY happy to not have a 7.5L. In my experience with the 7.5l engines, Loaded or unloaded Diesel fuel would have to cost nearly 30-40% more than gas for me to ever consider going with a big block gasser in the same truck. When I compare the Cummins to the V10 option in Dodge trucks it really makes me wonder :Wow1:
RusherRacing
Adventurer
I just bought a Diesel truck after owning gas all my life.
I like the big tough truck feel the diesel provides but for a daily driver I would prefer gas. If I go through the drive through I have to shut it off to order. The maintence costs are also significantly higher. But the added fuel economy is nice.
My truck with a gas would be 12mpg max I can see upwards of 20mpg.
I like the big tough truck feel the diesel provides but for a daily driver I would prefer gas. If I go through the drive through I have to shut it off to order. The maintence costs are also significantly higher. But the added fuel economy is nice.
My truck with a gas would be 12mpg max I can see upwards of 20mpg.