Diesel VS. Gas

[Metcalf]

My truck has over 300,000 mile now. I'm pretty sure it wasn't cared for very well before I got it. I change the oil every 5-6000 miles now. It just keeps going and going and going......

Whatever you do, don't buy a NEW diesel truck. If you buy a used one you pretty much eliminate most of the upcharge. You will pay more for a used diesel truck over gas, but the cost difference is FAR less.

Don't be afraid to buy a 100,000+ mile used truck either. Mine had over 200,000 on it when I bought it.

I don't think I could go back to a gas powered truck again.....

 

[FellowTraveler]

Diesel hands down, fuel here on the nature coast is $3.71 with B20 being $3.65 that being said my burb gets mid 20's mpg on highway and has given great service. Oil changes are at 25k with filter changes in between using bypass filtration system. Best mods are increasing VE by opening up intake and exhaust.

 

[chasespeed]

The guys I know with unmodded diesels seem to have little or no issues while my friends who bolt on/rechip etc. have trucks that break.

This isnt entirely true. I will say it depends on how you are making the power, and, of you have the supporting mods to go along with it. Only problem I had was my injection pump let go... which, was do to wear(P7100). I also never had a single mod related issue with my powerstrokes(7.3) either.

I also think, if you arent going to work it, and use it for what it was intended for, stick with a gasser...

My 2 cents


Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[bldeagle10]

maintenance costs. Assuming oil change every 5k and if you went over and above the service manuel. You would still come out ahead because you'd get 300k or more out of the diesel rather than having to replace a gas engine truck at 150 to 200K miles.

*No facts to back this it's just an observation*

The guys I know with unmodded diesels seem to have little or no issues while my friends who bolt on/rechip etc. have trucks that break.

as far as having to replace or rebuild the motor at 150-200k on a gas engine, i dont see that as a legitimate con in the list. my jeep 4.0 is at 321,960 miles and is just now having issues hinting at a rebuild (not even that it may just be a worn valve seat) and even now with this many miles we arent sure it is a rebuild it needs. (it has a random misfire that nobody seems to be able to explain....) so what im getting at, is that if you take care of your motor, gas or diesel. it will last a very long time.

 

[javik]

I know I dont post here very often, but I just went through this debate because I was in the market for a Crew Cab short bed that I would be daily driving and that eventually I would like to put an FWC slide in camper in.

For starters, I think there are pluses and minuses to both technologies. I really like that diesel is more thermally efficient and the fuel will store for a much longer time without additives. What I like about gas is that the motors and other surrounding parts are pretty cheap and easy to come by and for the money they are fairly economical.

The real question is not what is best, it is WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR NEEDS!

Personally I did not have 50K to spend on a truck and I actually put my target price around 15K. That being said, I needed a crew cab and they are a bit of a different animal as to price because everybody in my area holds on to them.

So, My needs were: Crewcab, auto, 4X4, low maintenance cost, price.

Long story short, I went with a gas silverado 1500 because most of the time I would be daily driving the thing which would get me around 17mpg on the highway.

The other truck I had considered was a 99-02 7.3 powerstroke Ford. My neighbor has one and he said he gets 18-19 mpg towing or not. The problem with those in my area is that for 15k price range I was typically looking at a rig with around 200k on the clock. The Gas rig I bought had 75K.

Now on to what pushed me away from diesels in my price range. New auto transmission price for a diesel is OUTRAGEOUS! The vast majority of the trucks in my area that were around 200k did not have a tranny rebuild. More than likely at this kind of mileage you are going to need one sooner than later. To get one rebuilt was at least 3K, and that is on the very low end. On my gas truck I can easy get a Junk Yard unit for about 500$ should the tranny go out. And incidentally, I can pick up a 5.3 for very cheap as well and those motors easily make 200k with even half *** maintenance.

The other thing for me in my price range was that at 200K a truck has lots of other things that are wore out such as seats, other interior parts, steering and suspension, ect. The trucks really do fall apart around diesel engines.

So, unless money is no object, what is best (in my mind anyway) should actually be what is best for me in my price range with how I am going to use my rig.

 

[haven]

I think we can agree that diesel is currently the best choice for trucks designed to carry loads greater than 3000 lbs, like the F250 Superduty or Dodge RAM 2500 HD. The OP was asking about diesel in a passenger vehicle. Diesel is losing its economic advantages as a passenger car engine.

There are plenty of diesel passenger cars, SUVs and light trucks sold in foreign markets. I think this is primarily due to government tax policies. In many countries, diesel is not taxed as heavily as gasoline because it's the fuel used by commercial trucks. In addition, governments tend to levy more taxes on vehicles with larger displacement engines. A diesel can produce equivalent torque from a smaller displacement than a conventional gas engine. Smaller engine = lower taxes.

And then there's the fuel economy of a diesel. Most reports I've read say a diesel engine is 15% - 20% more fuel efficient than a gas engine of similar displacement. And since a diesel produces more torque, the engine can have smaller displacement and still provide adequate power. For example, VW uses a 2.5L gas engine as standard in the Jetta, but offers a 2.0L diesel as an alternative. More fuel efficient and smaller displacement add up to a significant MPG advantage.

This situation is changing, however. First, in many countries, diesel prices have risen to parity with gasoline, or higher. This is due to the global demand for diesel, and to extra costs associated with refining ultra-low sulfur diesel for emissions control purposes.

Second, small displacement direct injected turbocharged or supercharged gas engines are catching up to small diesels in torque production and fuel economy. Examples include Ford's EcoBoost and Fiat's MultiAir gas engines. Essentially, the high pressure injection and turbocharging that have been diesel advantages for years are now being applied to gas engines as well.

Third, emissions rules in Europe are about to become as tough as the rules are in North America are, making diesel engines more expensive to manufacture, and reducing diesel fuel economy a bit.

The result is that global manufacturers are turning more and more to gasoline engines for passenger vehicles. Will diesel engines disappear in cars? Not likely, but they are becoming less attractive.

 

[Ozarker]

:Wow1: Great information and opinions here, cuts right to the bone of it all.

The question was really to look at the difference in overlanding vehicles, anything expeditionary, cars, vans, trucks and the big stuff.

I found a 95 Ford 350, diesel with 170K and it looked good for 3K, I thought about it, but thought 170k miles was too high...maybe not.

I have always shyed away from turbos, they have been around a long time, but if not manintained and tweeked often they cause problems. Maybe they are better now, at least for gas engines.

Which brings anouth question too, how clean does the giesel need to be, and if changed to multi-fuels (like cooking oil) would that be a problem for the newer engines?

 

[goin camping]

as far as having to replace or rebuild the motor at 150-200k on a gas engine, i dont see that as a legitimate con in the list. my jeep 4.0 is at 321,960 miles and is just now having issues hinting at a rebuild (not even that it may just be a worn valve seat) and even now with this many miles we arent sure it is a rebuild it needs. (it has a random misfire that nobody seems to be able to explain....) so what im getting at, is that if you take care of your motor, gas or diesel. it will last a very long time.

Inline six's are a different animal than a V8. I had 360,000 on my 1960 International 240 cu in. inline six before it needed a rebuild. You also have to factor in usage. Your jeep if it's anything like my 4.0 jeep wrangler weighs thousands less than my F250 diesel. Less weight means less strain on the engine and less strain means a longer engine life, generally.

As with anything automotive your mileage will vary.

 

[Metcalf]

I like my straight six diesel, best of both worlds :sombrero:

There is something to the straight six thing. There are more main bearings, less displacement generally, and the crank 'throw' is only in one major direction vs a 'V' style engine.....

 

[Allroader]

Hi,
Welll I know I am joing this thread late, but better then never. Did not read every post, but got a good overview.
Personally I would always take a Diesel Truck or Car. With that said, this is why:
- Better fuel econemy.
- full Torque avalibe, pretty much from start.
- Loaded or unloaded similar mpg.
- vehicle is more price stable over the years.
- Diesel is more common throughout the world (Semi Trucks run all over the world), yes their are gas stations that do not carry Diesel.
- Easy ways to make the vehicle get better mpg, like water/methanol
- Other ways to make the vehicle get better mpg, like Propane (would not do this)
- longer time between rebuilds of the engine.

NOW FOR OLDER DIESEL; WHICH I LIKE:
- being able to run them on veggie oil (used or new, just has to be clean and warm enough)
- being able to run them on motor oil (used or new, just has to be clean)

Like someone had already wrote before:
I would not go to the new Vehicles. Couple reasons why:
- Taking a hit on a new vehicle.
- Upgrade for diesel 3, 5, +K
- Their are so many elktr. sensors in them. Buts limits on doing things yourself or smaller cheaper shops to work on your truck.
also when sensors fail lot of the new engines will go into safe mode (only "~60%" of their power avalibe). This does not mean they use less diesel/fuel, just have less power.

I do understand the new car smell and feeling is great, but you can get that of a used Vehicle to.

Good luck with your choice.
Mike

 

[Ozarker]

Great...Allroader, why would you not use propane? I thought that propane was a proven alternative and systems exist to switch between fuel and propane....I thought.

And absolutely, you can get the new car smell in a spray bottle for less than three bucks!

 

[Buliwyf]

For my personal truck and even the work trucks I drive, gas is working out better. Diesel is great if you need the power for towing and/or drive a ton of highway miles. For local use gas works out better for me. And with the right setup 300Hp/400tq is plenty.

My work GM 3500 Van loaded with alot of heavy cargo, about 1500-2000 pounds, van is only 2" above level in the rear, still gets around 15-17 on the highway.

About 8-9mpg towing 9,000 pounds plus all that cargo.

Not really that bad. Not bad enough to make a difference that requires diesel. And once I'm past 1st gear the 6.0L is plenty fast. 3.73 rear end means I have no guts until about 25mph.




My neighbor made a few batches of biodiesel from cooking oil. He adds methanol, lye, and i think a little fuel injector cleaner. Heats and rinses it off in a water heater, uses a racor to remove the water and soap.

About a $1.20 per gallon when all is said and done. It takes some effort to burn cooking oil as fuel, the right way.

He had a tank in the bed with a heater coil in the tank. Engine antifreeze in the coils, T-d in off the heater IIRC, would heat the biodiesel so the Ford 7.3 could burn it.

He always started off on regular diesel, and shutdow with regular diesel. Bio was only for long highway trips with a warm truck. He used an Asco fuel solenoid to make the switches needed.

Now that "free" cooking oil is impossible to find, it's not worth the hassle. Restaraunts sell their oil now, or have service contracts with an oil recycler.

No way would I do this to the picky new common rail engines.

 

[Hayduke950]

I'd never owned a diesel until I bought a 2000 Ford E350 Van with a 7.3 powerstroke Turbo diesel about a year ago. Now, I will never not own a diesel again. I get 20 mpg, have amazing power. I live in the mountains and everywhere I go requires climbing a 10 or 11,000 ft. pass; it's nice to be able to maintain any speed over the passes, or accelerate to pass at will. I'm nearly always carrying a load; whether it's full of motorcycles or full of tee shirts for my business. And I can't imagine pulling our 5,000 lb travel trailer through the Rockies with a gas engine. With 280,000 miles on it, it's about 1/2 way through it's life. Long live diesel power.

 

[bfdiesel]

It takes some effort to burn cooking oil as fuel, the right way.

He had a tank in the bed with a heater coil in the tank. Engine antifreeze in the coils, T-d in off the heater IIRC, would heat the biodiesel so the Ford 7.3 could burn it.

He always started off on regular diesel, and shutdow with regular diesel. Bio was only for long highway trips with a warm truck. He used an Asco fuel solenoid to make the switches needed.

Now that "free" cooking oil is impossible to find, it's not worth the hassle. Restaraunts sell their oil now, or have service contracts with an oil recycler.

No way would I do this to the picky new common rail engines.

That is not at all required to run bio diesel. The heated on board tank and the fuel switching are what is required to run straight WVO as it has to be heated to about 180 degrees F.

As long as outside temps are above freezing bio diesel can just be ran in place of petro diesel as the temp drops bio and petro need to be mixed higher the petro % the lower the gel point.

I to think HPCR's are to picky about fuel to run straight bio in them. Stick with the manufactures suggestions on these.:chef:

 

[wcdu]

I'm not sure why a guy with a diesel pickup would let it idle for an hour unless he is charging a battery, or keeping the a/c running for someone/something in the vehicle -- but it is a good idea to let the EGT drop down to the sub-350* range before shutting the engine off. This will help prevent heat-soaking the turbo bearings, which will lead to a short turbo life. This usually only takes a minute or two - far cry from an hour.

I just saw this post a few days ago while my 05 Duramax was sitting in Santa Fe with a blown turbo. A blown turbo with only 96,000 miles on the motor that costs $3,200.00 to repair. I wasn't hauling anything but a laptop and an overnight bag returning from ALB. I still like diesel but I am looking for something heavy duty that uses gas.

I just gots to have a truck.

Steve