Resources for complete beginners? S-250 build-out

[rruff]

After a bit of searching around the forums and the internet at large, I couldn't find a master beginner thread for newbs such as myself but I figure there must be something.

No... but look at simple builds and see if you can get any ideas from those. The simpler it is the easier and quicker you'll be using it. If these shelters have "hard points" where you can easily fasten things to the interior wall, that will make it pretty easy. I think they are already insulated... is that true?

I see you are in BC and will be camping there. What time of year? Short term or long term, or full time? Any other places you are planning to go? Number of people?

Where should the kitchen go?
How do I heat it, wood, diesel?
Will I need AC?
How do I wire a battery and solar for a ham radio, synthesizers and maybe speakers?

Think about how you want it laid out and go from there. Prioritize what you actually need vs what would be "nice". I lived for 13 years in my rig and never had heat... because I didn't camp in places that got below freezing regularly. On my new rig I'll probably have a small propane heater (Camco). Else diesel is a good option. AC is extremely expensive to implement for boondocking, so probably scratch that one.

I prefer doing things outside, so never had a "kitchen" or plumbing. SunShowers for washing, and a portable stove for me. If you like being outside an awning is a good idea. If you camp in BC in the winter, that will be completely different. You'll definitely need heat and anything you don't want to freeze will have to be in the heated space.

What truck is that and the specs?

 

[NatersXJ6]

You think the jacks with that much extension on them would be safe? If that's a possibility then that is absolutely the way I want to go.

Regarding the stoves I was reading on Polmoly's website that they are often used in RV's and trailers so there is some consideration for that type of usage. Perhaps there is the option of getting an air intake retrofitted.

As far as heating water tanks go, I wasn't really planning on it, I'm used to just cold ass water when I am out and about but these stoves do have inline chimney water tanks to have a small amount of hot water available.

I was considering a small solar heater for a shower tank on the top perhaps but that is late stage luxury and not much of a concern.

When I was thinking of heating water tanks, I was thinking “to keep them from freezing”… but that probably wasn’t clear. The location of your water storage and whether or not it takes livable space probably depends on insulation and / or heat. Your heat source should probably take that into consideration.

As far as a Jack stand that can be strong enough to lift the camper, wide enough to back under, and still detachable, it is absolutely possible. Cost and speed of connection depend largely on how much weight you need to hold, how much weight can be in each Jack, and how you want to actuate them.

A basic receiver-mount system with a crank-type trailer Jack and a pin to hold with a bolt to take out slack should be pretty easy to build.

I hear weird things about Canadian requirements for engineering certification and stuff, so maybe you want to look into some of that, but here I would think that a working prototype is about $200 of materials per corner and a few hours with a welder in the shop.

 

[MrNobody]

No... but look at simple builds and see if you can get any ideas from those. The simpler it is the easier and quicker you'll be using it. If these shelters have "hard points" where you can easily fasten things to the interior wall, that will make it pretty easy. I think they are already insulated... is that true?

I see you are in BC and will be camping there. What time of year? Short term or long term, or full time? Any other places you are planning to go? Number of people?


Think about how you want it laid out and go from there. Prioritize what you actually need vs what would be "nice". I lived for 13 years in my rig and never had heat... because I didn't camp in places that got below freezing regularly. On my new rig I'll probably have a small propane heater (Camco). Else diesel is a good option. AC is extremely expensive to implement for boondocking, so probably scratch that one.

I prefer doing things outside, so never had a "kitchen" or plumbing. SunShowers for washing, and a portable stove for me. If you like being outside an awning is a good idea. If you camp in BC in the winter, that will be completely different. You'll definitely need heat and anything you don't want to freeze will have to be in the heated space.

What truck is that and the specs?

Yes they are insulated with a type of foam core between the aluminum skins but currently I am not sure what the R-rating would be.

Camping here will take place all year round so its got to be 4 season, duration locally maybe 10 days at a time for now but I have some ideas of road tripping to the East Coast, the Bering Sea, and the Southern United States.

Number of people is 2 max. I am considering have the wood stove being removable when the season doesn't call for it if I find I don't have enough space otherwise it will stay fixed to the wall, but as far as AC goes, even working on it here in September with 21C and the door open, it was getting pretty stinking hot in there. I also am sold on an awning and a sun shower. I love to be outside and considering the space I should take advantage of the exterior during permitting months.

The truck is a 2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab with a 2" lift and an extra leaf spring on the back to account for the weight of the flat deck. When I loaded the S-250 on it I didn't see my suspension sag or give hardly at all. However I am considering air bags in case I haul a trailer with a quad or something like that for hunting season.

 

[MrNobody]

When I was thinking of heating water tanks, I was thinking “to keep them from freezing”… but that probably wasn’t clear. The location of your water storage and whether or not it takes livable space probably depends on insulation and / or heat. Your heat source should probably take that into consideration.

As far as a Jack stand that can be strong enough to lift the camper, wide enough to back under, and still detachable, it is absolutely possible. Cost and speed of connection depend largely on how much weight you need to hold, how much weight can be in each Jack, and how you want to actuate them.

A basic receiver-mount system with a crank-type trailer Jack and a pin to hold with a bolt to take out slack should be pretty easy to build.

I hear weird things about Canadian requirements for engineering certification and stuff, so maybe you want to look into some of that, but here I would think that a working prototype is about $200 of materials per corner and a few hours with a welder in the shop.

Oooh yeah, that makes sense. Having an exterior water tank without insulating or heating it in the winter will be completely useless. That will be something to consider. There must be small heated water tanks that I could plug into my electrical that doesn't heat the water but keeps the tank warm enough to prevent freezing. Otherwise a small inline heater on the chimney (if I go that rout) and storage container inside for a few extra liters will have to do.

I am hoping to have her in a state to use for a weekend this November to go travel to some mountain hot springs. That will be a good time to experiment with water.

I have a line on a couple of welders here in town so I think I just need to load the S-250 on to the deck and take it over there and have them take a gander and see what they can do. The jacks are around $60CAD online, but steel is so expensive, and so is labor. If the job can be done for $800, that would be nice.

 

[rruff]

Space is going to be tight for 2 people. The need to accommodate cold winters makes it tougher for sure. The room that the woodstove takes up would be detriment to me. A portable diesel heater mounted outside the box would be much better I think, or even simpler would be a propane catalytic.

Water... keep your interior above freezing, and keep the water inside. Simplest would be a couple sun showers. Hang one on the wall to use.

You really don't want all the stuff you'd need for AC (lot of solar, lots of batteries). When it's hot, park in the shade (use remote solar panels), use a ventilation fan and circulating fans, insulate. They list an R-value ~2, which isn't great. http://www.wenzlau.com/s-250.html

Pretty sure you will be well over the GVWR of your truck when you are loaded up. This is generally not an issue in the US, but I've heard that in BC you may be ticketed and fined.

 

[NatersXJ6]

Agreed that you will be well over GVWR for a 1/2 ton truck. The shelter alone probably consumes most or all of it.

You can make your own decisions about weight by reading a lot of threads on here.

 

[MrNobody]

Space is going to be tight for 2 people. The need to accommodate cold winters makes it tougher for sure. The room that the woodstove takes up would be detriment to me. A portable diesel heater mounted outside the box would be much better I think, or even simpler would be a propane catalytic.

I will do a cardboard mockup but the stove is quite small: 12.4" x 8.86" x 8.86" and can be wall mounted. I am not married to it but I want to try. It's simple which means I can start using it quicker and I like that.

They list an R-value ~2, which isn't great.

Did you calculate that from the BTU hours (- 0.50BTU/hr./sq. ft./° F)?
I couldn't find an R rating on the specs there.

Pretty sure you will be well over the GVWR of your truck when you are loaded up. This is generally not an issue in the US, but I've heard that in BC you may be ticketed and fined.

My trucks GVWR is 7000lbs
GAWR FRT 3950lbs and RR 3950lb

The shelter is listed at 765lbs on its data card fixed to the door plus 550lbs for the flat deck minus the truck box equaling 1300lbs.
That leaves the remainder at 2650lbs for stuff.

I am aware I am totally ignorant on the subject, but I figured that I have plenty of weight to spare. Did I do my calculations wrong or is there something I am missing?

 

[simple]

I will do a cardboard mockup but the stove is quite small: 12.4" x 8.86" x 8.86" and can be wall mounted. I am not married to it but I want to try. It's simple which means I can start using it quicker and I like that.


Did you calculate that from the BTU hours (- 0.50BTU/hr./sq. ft./° F)?
I couldn't find an R rating on the specs there.



My trucks GVWR is 7000lbs
GAWR FRT 3950lbs and RR 3950lb

The shelter is listed at 765lbs on its data card fixed to the door plus 550lbs for the flat deck minus the truck box equaling 1300lbs.
That leaves the remainder at 2650lbs for stuff.

I am aware I am totally ignorant on the subject, but I figured that I have plenty of weight to spare. Did I do my calculations wrong or is there something I am missing?

What is the weight of your truck? Subtract that from GVWR and that is your payload including people and everything like a foam antenna ball (he he).

 

[rruff]

Did you calculate that from the BTU hours (- 0.50BTU/hr./sq. ft./° F)?
I couldn't find an R rating on the specs there.

R is the inverse of U.

My trucks GVWR is 7000lbs
GAWR FRT 3950lbs and RR 3950lb

The shelter is listed at 765lbs on its data card fixed to the door plus 550lbs for the flat deck minus the truck box equaling 1300lbs.
That leaves the remainder at 2650lbs for stuff.

The missing factor is your truck's original curb weight. I'd guess you have somewhere between 0-500 lbs you can add before you exceed it. That 0-500 lbs includes all payload added to the original truck, besides the flatdeck and empty camper box.

 

[NatersXJ6]

You would be well off to just go drive your truck across a scale with an empty flat bed, full tanks, all your recovery gear, etc…

Subtract that number from 7k and see what is left for camper and gear.

I’m definitely not a GVWR Nazi, I believe that you can run safely and carefully if you are over, but…. Canadians on here seem to have a different legal experience than those of us in the US, and that often comes with much stronger opinions.

 

[Xlocdnguyen]

Definity go camping with it as is. I had a soft topper with a drawer system and after a couple nights I had a better idea of the changes I wanted to make.

 

[Buffalobwana]

The S-250 is a great shelter I have 3 of them. I turned one into a camper (ok, actually it was a hunting blind that you could take camping.)

It’s mounted in a M1101 trailer, the straps on the front were replaced with stainless cables and aluminum turnbuckles. Looks much nicer than the straps.

I bought RV windows on eBay that cost about $1k total but, I wanted 7 windows so I could see out every side. You could get by with 2 to 5 windows. Make sure one is an emergency exit window in case you have an issue with the door mechanism.

I used the windows trim kit to mark the cut out on a piece of cardboard, then transferred it to the walls with a sharpie, then very carefully, use a skill saw to cut the straight lines on the cutout and a jigsaw for the curves.

Install windows loosely, caulk the ever lovin snot out of it and you have a camper.

It’s about 20% more awesome than you think it will be. I’m very happy with it.

You can finish out the inside as you see fit. Not too hard to imagine your space in there. Fridge, beds, shelves.

I built mine because we had a Red Stag on the ranch who was nocturnal and I wanted my nephew to shoot it. After many nights, we got it done.

 

[Buffalobwana]

The S-250 is a great shelter I have 3 of them. I turned one into a camper (ok, actually it was a hunting blind that you could take camping.)

It’s mounted in a M1101 trailer, the straps on the front were replaced with stainless cables and aluminum turnbuckles. Looks much nicer than the straps.

I bought RV windows on eBay that cost about $1k total but, I wanted 7 windows so I could see out every side. You could get by with 2 to 5 windows. Make sure one is an emergency exit window in case you have an issue with the door mechanism.

I used the windows trim kit to mark the cut out on a piece of cardboard, then transferred it to the walls with a sharpie, then very carefully, use a skill saw to cut the straight lines on the cutout and a jigsaw for the curves.

Install windows loosely, caulk the ever lovin snot out of it and you have a camper.

It’s about 20% more awesome than you think it will be. I’m very happy with it.

You can finish out the inside as you see fit. Not too hard to imagine your space in there. Fridge, beds, shelves.

I built mine because we had a Red Stag on the ranch who was nocturnal and I wanted my nephew to shoot it. After many nights, we got it done.

The pics are not great, they were just an “in process” set of pics to share w my nephew.

The cardboard shims inside were temporary while the caulking cured on the outside. They were removed and the inside was caulked.

Be sure to get the correct trim kit thickness. I think it’s 1.5”? If not, no problem, I just caulked the gap and it’s not noticeable.

I believe, if you were careful, you could put a tiny wood burning stove inside and pipe the chimney out the top. I saw a guy in AK set his up that way.

I’d have CO monitors and use adequate ventilation as well.

 

[simple]

"It’s about 20% more awesome than you think it will be." LOL's

 

[MrNobody]

You would be well off to just go drive your truck across a scale with an empty flat bed, full tanks, all your recovery gear, etc…

Subtract that number from 7k and see what is left for camper and gear.

I’m definitely not a GVWR Nazi, I believe that you can run safely and carefully if you are over, but…. Canadians on here seem to have a different legal experience than those of us in the US, and that often comes with much stronger opinions.

I will do this and also look into it.

Honestly I have never heard of it happening here but who knows!