TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

biotect

Designer
.
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

*************************************************


So personally I think maps of homicide rates are more reliable indicators, and here South Africa, Columbia, Honduras, Venezuela all stand out as countries that are clearly to be avoided; whereas China, most of central Asia, North Africa, all or India, and of course Europe, are reasonably safe -- see http://www.geocurrents.info/geograp...-and-rape-maps-and-the-the-sweden-rape-puzzle :



homicide-rates2.jpg original.jpg
Global_Homicide_Mises_Inst.jpg World-Murder-Rate-Geocurrents-Map-1024x726 copy.jpg



Here is an unusual map that breaks things down at a more pan-regional level. It's a bit unfair, in a way, because the comparatively low levels of homicide in Namibia and Botswana get completely wiped out by South Africa's stratospheric homicide rate; or Chile's First-World level of peace gets completely drowned out by the homicide rate of surrounding South American countries:



a_UNODC_Homicide-map-big1.jpg



Still, it creates an interesting picture, in which by far the safest parts of the world are (a) Europe, and (b) East and South-East Asia, connected by an only slightly less safe corridor that runs all the way from Australia to Britain. And interesting pattern, although who knows what to make of it.

Also fascinating are maps that go in the other direction, providing more fine-grained, sub-national, regional pictures of homicide rates:



UupWMeA.jpg violence-map.jpg



Clearly, some parts of Brazil are far more violent than others, and for the most part southern South America -- Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, and Paraguay -- are no more violent overall than most of the United States. Whereas northern Mexico is bad, really bad, and South Africa certainly is bad.

Travel Advisory warning maps are also useful source of patterned information, although they tend to go "soft" on South Africa, Colombia, Venezuela, etc. -- see -- see http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/travel-warnings/ :



Untitled.jpg atlantic-travel-safety.jpg



Overall, the map that feels most right to me is a "Safety Index" map or "Crime Index Map", put together using an unknown methodology -- see http://www.numbeo.com/crime/gmaps_rankings_country.jsp?indexToShow=main&title=2015-mid and http://www.numbeo.com/crime/gmaps_rankings_country.jsp?indexToShow=safety&title=2015-mid :



Untitled 15.jpg



This map seems to nicely capture the traveller's intuition that India is a safe place to travel, and so too China; Japan is especially safe, as bright green as Norway, Finland, and Germany; Russia is no less safe than France or the United States; Australia, Canada, and Chile are all reasonably safe; Morroco is OK, but northern Africa is "iffy"; Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama are safe, but El Salvador less so, and Honduras is a shooting gallery, just like South Africa; and so on -- see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/worlds-highest-murder-rates_n_5125188.html .

On the downside, this map might be a bit "hard" on South and Central America. Notice how much more generous the travel advisory maps are towards Argentina and Brazil.


*************************************************

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.
 
Last edited:

biotect

Designer
.
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

*************************************************


Yes, parking on the street wouldnt be my choice either even in the better neighborhoods,,to much noise and punks racing cars bikes etc..
There are better options when one is on limited budget,

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/boondocking-stealth-parking-2/
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/category/stealth-city-parking/

Still its a sorry state of afairs when one cant park in many cities without fear of being robbed or have their vehicle broken into by some dopehead junkie looking for quick buck..
Ive traveled in japan recently and the politeness,services and safety are unlike anything we have in this country..not to mention the cleanlinnes
On the streets and trains buses..even the biggest cities are safe enougn for small kids to take subways train to school withour fear



http://en.rocketnews24.com/2015/02/...-safest-city-in-the-world-osaka-number-three/
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2015/02/...llion-yen-of-lost-cash-turned-into-the-police


I was often wondering just how did they manage to create such harmonious polite society ?
?must have something to do with training kids from day one to respect everyone and everything..and the old samurai spirit of honorable behavior must have something to do with it too..




Silverado, those are some incredible videos about crime (or lack thereof) in Japan!!!

The second video reminds me of a summer when I worked as a counselor and instructor at an Arts Camp, an Arts camp located in a multi-racial, slightly "rougher" section of Toronto. I ran a British-type "points system," with the class divided into "Olympians" versus "Titans". Kids could earn points for their teams for good behavior, and within less than a week I had six-year-olds crawling the floor searching for even the tiniest scraps of colored rice just 5 minutes before class ended, hoping that their team might win the super-bonus "20 points!!" for the best end-of-day clean-up. Their mothers would watch from the doorway, their jaws agape, not knowing whether to congratulate me, or ask my supervisor whether I had drugged their kids. It was simple psychology, and works brilliantly on kids under 12. Over 12, well, things get harder.....

Perhaps the most important thing you might want to take away from all of this, is that the United States is the least-safe and by far the most violent First-World, developed country on earth. Lots of First-World countries located in Europe are much safer than the United States, and as you've noticed, Japan is much safer than the United States as well. The political, economic, and cultural explanations here are too long to mention, so I won't bother.

But notice how the United States is not so bad when compared globally. The United States is still safer than most (but not all) Second-World countries in Latin America, or Third-World countries in Africa:



homicide-rates-LA2.jpg



There are lots of countries on earth that have homicide rates as bad or worse than the United States, although granted, almost all are Second- , Third- , and Fourth- world countries.

When designing the TerraLiner, it seems to me that the "target" should be to make it potentially usable in a country like Brazil. Brazil is a middle-income country with excellent super-highways, the Peace-Index maps locate Brazil somewhere in the middle, travel advisories classify Brazil together with China, and only Brazil's slightly elevated Mexican/Russian/Peruvian/Namibian rate of homicide will give pause for concern. Carjacking and kidnapping is now so common in Brazil, that apparently many new mid-sized cars aimed at the middle-class come pre-equipped "off the lot" with Kevlar armor and bullet-proof glass -- see http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...or-the-middle-class-not-available-in-USA.html , http://www.lipstickalley.com/showth...-Are-Paying-12-000-Per-Car-For-Bulletproofing! , http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/04/world/americas/04brazil.html?_r=0 , http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2011/11/30/bulletproof_boom_armored_cars_in_latin_america/ , http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-dupont-brazil-idUKBRE83F0FB20120416 , http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/failed-brazilian-carjacking-would-make.html , and http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...killed-in-attempted-carjacking-in-Brazil.html . Dupont seems to be the market leader in this niche -- see http://www.dupont.com/corporate-fun...otection/articles/brazil-life-protection.html , http://www.dupont.com.br/dpt/armura/dupont-armura-home.html , http://www.dupont.com.br/dpt/armura/dupont-armura.html , http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-dupont-brazil-idUSLNE83F03720120416 , and http://www.dupont.com/corporate-fun...es/protection/articles/better-protection.html



1442039183092.jpg



But whether the TerraLiner should follow suit, and to what degree, is still an open question.

On the other hand, there's simply no point trying to design the TerraLiner to cope with South African or Colombian conditions. And given that China and India are two huge subcontinents in their own right, waiting to be experienced, and both of them are perfectly safe, why try to design for an extreme "safety target", when the wisest course of action would be to simply avoid visiting altogether certain very dangerous countries?

All best wishes,


Biotect
 
Last edited:

egn

Adventurer
I didn't compress the image as it is just a screenshot. Expo seems to change the image in some way.

Anyway, I have uploaded it to another website and used a link and this works.
 

biotect

Designer
Yes, terrific, and very clear!!

However, just for the sake of "posterity", I took the image and ran it through Photoshop, using "Sharpen", "Unsharp Mask", etc., in order to create a large jpg file that could then be downloaded onto ExPo. Here it is:



24023371lb copy.jpg



It's not quite as sharp as the linked image that you provided, but it's still fairly sharp, and completely legible. ExPo seems like it will still be up and running 20 years from now, whereas who knows how long other websites will survive.....:ylsmoke:

Seems like data typical for an ICE. The “Total Power Required” increases to an initial peak of 264 KW at 40 kph, then falls off with increasing speed, no doubt because the engine's optimum “sweet spot” is around 70 kph (???), which requires 255 KW. Then the power requirement increases again beyond that, reaching 314 KW at 100 kph, with a very big jump between 90 kph (268 KW), and 100 kph (314K).

However, as I wrote in post #2119 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1973761#post1973761, it might be a mistake to think that the rapidly accelerating power requirement above 90 kph is due to air resistance alone. ICE vehicles have a very particular “sweet spot” where their engines run at their most efficient, so any departure from that sweet spot either slower or faster will increase the amount of power required to cover a given unit of distance. In other words, there are "engine effects" that impact both the power requirements and fuel efficiencies of ICE vehicles, "engine effects" that don't apply to electric motors. So as one drives faster beyond 55 or 60 mph, my suspicion is that ICE "engine effects" are also responsible (in part) for a drop-off in fuel efficiency, and a more dramatically non-linear increase in the power requirement.

Also remember that the “instantaneous” power requirement for a given speed is different than the amount of power required for a given unit of distance. The former increases much more rapidly, while the latter is a much more horizontal curve. See post #2118 at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...w-6x6-Hybrid-Drivetrain?p=1973721#post1973721 for a tentative discussion. This is shown very nicely in your figures for fuel economy, which basically amount to the power required for a given distance travelled. As Blue Thunder's speed increases in 10 kph increments, fuel economy does get worse in a non-linear way, but not dramatically so. From 60 to 70 kph, the fuel required increases 3.1 liters per 100 km; from 70 to 80 kph, it increases 3.6 liters; from 80 to 90 kph it increases 5.3 liters; and from 90 to 100 kph, it increases 6.1 liters. Curious: there's a considerable acceleration in the fuel Blue Thunder requires between 80 and 90 kph, but not such a big acceleration between 90 and 100 kph.

Also curious: Blue Thunder does not seem to have a standard “ICE” fuel economy curve, where fuel economy peaks at optimal highway speeds, and is actually worse at lower speeds:



mpg-vs-speed-subaru.jpg mpg-vs-speed-all.jpeg
Untitled3.jpg Fuel_economy_vs_speed_1997.jpg
avoid_high_speed.jpg



I wonder why that is? Perhaps I am reading your chart wrong, or your chart is saying something different than these charts of various ICE-vehicle fuel economy curves?

Or: something seems wrong here. If your Total power requirement is actually lower at 70 kph (255 KW), and it's higher at 40 kph (264 KW), and given that you are going much faster and covering more distance at 70 kph, then your liters consumed per 100 km distance should actually be lower at the faster speed, not higher. But again, I am just a layperson, I am not an engineer, my math and physics are minimal, so no doubt I am missing something important!! :costumed-smiley-007

Still, many thanks for Blue Thunder's chart, and discussing its various aspects should prove illuminating for all participants! :sunny:

All best wishes,



Biotect
 
Last edited:

egn

Adventurer
The fuel economy shown is only valid for the current gear. Actually it shows the fuel economy depending on rpm.
KAT6x6_Treibstoffverbrauch.JPG

The efficiency gets increasingly lower above 1700 rpm because the air cooling fan needs more and more power. It is estimated that a maximum of 30 kW is used for driving the air cooling fan.

And as the power requirement to overcome air resistance is increasing quadratic depending ons speed, the fuel economy goes down with higher speed.

Of course the engine isn't standard anymore. It probably goes well above 400 hp. I have a test hill with a slope of about 4,3 % and it goes up the hill with more than 80 km/h. This indicates about 400-450 hp.
 
Last edited:

egn

Adventurer
The MAN KAT is no typical truck. It is more like a brick with no aerodynamic. :sombrero:

Look here for typical CD.

aerodynamics2.jpg


Other CD examples.


Regarding rolling resistance you should keep in mind that off-road tires are used. They are much worse than modern street tires. The used value is probably still at the low side and heavily depends on air pressure.

All used values are coarse assumptions, so the error range of the result may be at least 10 %.
 
Last edited:

Libransser

Observer
ExPo seems like it will still be up and running 20 years from now, whereas who knows how long other websites will survive.....:ylsmoke:

I don't know if you know about this resource, but the Wayback Machine saves snapshots of webpages, saving text and sometimes multimedia, and it's a great way to access the information even if the webpage no longer exists or was changed.

It usually offers several historical snapshots allowing you to see how the webpage looked at several points in time.

There's even a feature that allows you to save a specific webpage in their archive.

https://archive.org/web/

Of course, not all webpages can be archived. The Wayback Machine uses web crawlers (like those of Google) that follow the access rules of the Robots Exclusion Standard (robots.txt), a standard that allows web developers to specify the areas of a website the web crawlers can or can't index.

Regarding saving videos, there are tools that allow you to download videos from YouTube (and similar video sites) to your hard-drive. If you don't want those videos taking up space, you can store them back in YouTube, uploading them through your own account but marking them as private, or with public access but only for those who know the URL (thus being excluded from search results).

I have several videos stored like that, as backup. You would probably have problems if you upload music, movies and other stuff with heavily enforced copyrights, but should be fine with most of the videos I have seen used as reference in this thread.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
The answer just occurred to me. The motors are so big for one simple reason: they also function as generators when braking. They are so huge not mainly to provide forward motion, but rather, to provide braking power when stopping. In a serial-hybrid, the electric motors also become the brakes. The electric motors themselves are designed to function as electromagnetic-induction retarders.

All best wishes,

Biotect

Hey! Just catching up, and still haven't read the rest of the thread yet (as you can see, I'm only up to post 2072(!!) (and bio just casually tosses out "read the whole thread" - AS IF anyone is actually going to do that...) :D ).

But it seems to me that the "regen braking / battery is full" issue is a bit of a red herring. You can brake an electric motor / generator by shorting the magnetic fields to act against each other. Almost all small wind turbines have a "stop switch" that shorts the alternator to itself, to stop the rotor from turning, so that it won't chop up the guy who has to work on it.



All you really need is a fast-acting stop switch. A quickie search even finds a patent on something which, from the description, seems to be what I'm talking about:

https://www.google.com/patents/US7508089

"Some wind turbine generator systems are known to use some type of mechanical braking to protect the wind turbine generator from an over speed condition. For example, U.S. Pat. No. 5,506,453 utilizes the pitch of the wind turbine blades to protect the wind turbine from over speed. In particular, the blades of the wind turbine are mechanically coupled to a rotatable mechanical hub. The blades are configured so as to be rotatable about their longitudinal axis relative to the hub allowing the pitch of the turbine blades to be varied. The pitch of the blades is turned in such a way as to create braking of the wind turbine.


Other known systems utilize mechanical brakes, such as disclosed in U.S. Patent Application Publication No. US 2005/0034937. Yet other systems disclose the use of aerodynamic-type brakes as well as mechanical brakes, for example, as disclosed in U.S. Pat. No. 6,265,785, to protect the wind turbine from over speed.


While mechanical brakes do an adequate job of protecting the wind turbine generator from over speed, mechanical braking systems do little to optimize the operational time and thus power output of the wind turbine generator. Moreover, such mechanical braking systems are mechanically complex and are, thus, relatively expensive.

As such, electrical braking systems have been developed to control over speed of wind turbine generator systems. For example, Japanese Patent Publication JP2000-179446 discloses an electrical braking system for a wind turbine generator. The system disclosed in the Japanese patent publication includes a relay whose contacts are connected across the output terminals of the generator. When an over speed condition is detected, the relay is energized which, in turn, shorts out the output terminals of the generator, which loads the generator and causes it to slow down and stop.
"


Of course...you'll still be converting momentum to heat, so the motors will have to be able to "take the heat or get out of the kitchen".


EDIT: And oh yea...HO HO HO peeps!
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
PS -- One more important point, regarding altitude. The articles that you referenced made the excellent observation that turbine efficiency degrades with altitude. Whereas piston-driven diesel engines tend to be turbocharged, and turbocharging does a good job compensating for loss of air pressure due to altitude. An important consideration for the TerraLiner, which will need to glamp the Tibetan plateau.

Most jet engines these days are turbocharged. It's just an inline turbocharger design rather than a doohickey bolted on the side:

Turbojet_operation-_centrifugal_flow.png
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Speaking of wind turbine braking,
I was given a turbine formerly upon a sailboat.
Now powering my offgrid cabin. Its literature claims self regulates against overspeed by its blades flexing with centrifugal force to become pitch less effective.
Clever I thought,

Hot rods have been using them for decades. Good idea to use that technique on a wind turbine. Who made it?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=flex+fan&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images


I really dont know how fast it can go. But at the cabin if the wind is stiff,
That turbine is screaming right along & outputs over 40 amps...

Its best not to activate its stop switch when its running that high...

Yea, but the idea is to have a fast acting stop switch that goes on/off to regulate the resistance of the drive motor - not to bring it to a full stop instantly. Like a PWM controlled stop switch.
 

Silverado08

Observer
With the Volt or any other "plug-in hybrid" type vehicle - the gas mileage display it shows is a gimmick as it does not include the energy contributed by the grid when it is plugged in and charges. Someone with a display that shows 9000 MPG must drive only short distances and always plugs the vehicle in so it runs nearly completely on the energy stored in the batteries from charging off the electrical utility grid.

Using your logic, an all electric car should have a display that says it is getting INFINITE gas mileage since it uses no gas at all!

Energy from the grid is a fuel source - just in the form of electricity instead of gasoline. It should be included in the efficiency/performance calculations.
Gimmick huh LOL

The energy from the grid is so infinitesimaly tiny as compared to gasoline or diesel fuel it's laughable ,really..

Also as I've mentioned many superchargers out there such as Tesla has are charged by the sun. .and also free to use ��

From energy .gov
Quote
If electricity costs $0.11 per kWh and the vehicle consumes 34 kWh to travel 100 miles, the cost per mile is about $0.04. If electricity costs $0.11 per kilowatt-hour, charging an all-electric vehicle with a 70-mile range (assuming a fully depleted 24 kWh battery) will cost about $2.64 to reach a full charge.Jan 5, 2015

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_charging_home.html

The bottom line ie the cost per mile driven by EV or hybrid EV beats any diesel by a very very long shot

And adding the cost of extracting oil from the ground or even making biodiesel makes it so much more expensive and environmentaly unfriendly it's surprising anyone would question it's viability
 

Silverado08

Observer
With the Volt or any other "plug-in hybrid" type vehicle - the gas mileage display it shows is a gimmick as it does not include the energy contributed by the grid when it is plugged in and charges. Someone with a display that shows 9000 MPG must drive only short distances and always plugs the vehicle in so it runs nearly completely on the energy stored in the batteries from charging off the electrical utility grid.

Using your logic, an all electric car should have a display that says it is getting INFINITE gas mileage since it uses no gas at all!

Energy from the grid is a fuel source - just in the form of electricity instead of gasoline. It should be included in the efficiency/performance calculations.
Gimmick huh LOL

The energy from the grid is so infinitesimaly tiny as compared to gasoline or diesel fuel it's laughable ,really..

Also as I've mentioned many superchargers out there such as Tesla has are charged by the sun. .

From energy .gov
Quote
If electricity costs $0.11 per kWh and the vehicle consumes 34 kWh to travel 100 miles, the cost per mile is about $0.04. If electricity costs $0.11 per kilowatt-hour, charging an all-electric vehicle with a 70-mile range (assuming a fully depleted 24 kWh battery) will cost about $2.64 to reach a full charge.Jan 5, 2015

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_charging_home.html

The bottom line ie the cost per mile driven by EV or hybrid EV beats any diesel by a very very long shot

And adding the cost of extracting oil from the ground or even making biodiesel makes it so much more expensive and environmentaly unfriendly as compared to EV it's surprising anyone would question it's viability
 

LukeH

Adventurer
The bottom line ie the cost per mile driven by EV or hybrid EV beats any diesel by a very very long shot

And adding the cost of extracting oil from the ground or even making biodiesel makes it so much more expensive and environmentaly unfriendly as compared to EV it's surprising anyone would question it's viability

Yep!
It's just the storage of energy, and the re-"fuelling" that presents technical issues. Mr Musk seems to have overcome part of it.

The HUGE blocking point that remains is that at less than three dollars per charge how on earth are the fat-cats, shareholders, station attendants and all the excesive hangers-on to the oil industry going to be able to take their cut???
As so much of the economy relies on trickle down from oil sales, there is huge fear at a very high level.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
186,328
Messages
2,884,514
Members
226,200
Latest member
eclipse179
Top