Thinking about going to a Series III-???

[Burningtree]

I've been a leaf-sprung Jeep guy for the past 20 years and am considering a switch to one of the old school rovers. A Series III to be precise. What would the setup below cost me ballpark. I can do some work myself, but don't have serious $ to send one to ECR.

Subtract the cost of a Series III 88" that I can just tow away...

-300tdi(I like the mileage, power, simplicity(mechanical) and it seems to be a popular swap, if one can be found)
-5spd 380
-galvanized chassis
-coil suspension
-ps
-disc brakes
-defender axles
-I guess I can forget about heat and A/C in one of these.

-labor for the above

I think I have most everything covered, they are basically tractors.

Also recommend a shop in the Southeast(I'm in AL) if applicable. Any thoughts would be appreciated...

 

[Alaska Mike]

Coming from the Jeep world, you're in for a bit of sticker shock. Parts just aren't cheap when compared to the old Jeeps, with the possible exceptions of galvanized frames.

With the level of modification you're thinking of, you might just find a Defender 90 and start from there. Parts alone you're going to be close, and fabrication is going to add quite a bit (even if you do a lot of the work yourself). There are a kabillion little parts in a Series Rover, that can add up to more than the big ticket items.

Believe me, I'm there. My $500 Series III 88 SW has already cost me about 20 times that, and is still not on the road. I work on it when I can, but it is a very involved project that takes time and money. I have three kids, so I have little of either. I'm just hoping that it's still legal to drive gasoline powered vehicles when mine is complete.

 

[TeriAnn]

-300tdi(I like the mileage, power, simplicity(mechanical) and it seems to be a popular swap, if one can be found)
-5spd 380
-galvanized chassis
-coil suspension
-ps
-disc brakes
-defender axles
-I guess I can forget about heat and A/C in one of these.

It sounds to me like what you want is:

• An 88 with bad frame and drive train but decent body panels
• A Range Rover Classic with bad body panels, frame & engine but good axles, brakes & suspension bits
• A Range Rover P-38 power steering box
• New 88 coiler frame
• Smuggled in 300tdi with the correct gearbox and transfercase

Range Rover Classics with a bad engine are going for real cheap. An 88 with bad frame/ drive train shouldn't be very expensive. P-38 RR's are starting to hit the wrecking yards. I think Rovers North can get you a galvanized Series frame set up for coil suspension. The 300tdi will likely be had from an Australian or UK wrecking yard. The cost of the used bits depends upon what kind of deals you can make. Getting the engine in might be a problem. The frame is the only major part that you probably can't work a deal on.

 

[KingSlug]

I agree with AKM, buy a D90. Or find a decent running rover, I prefer an S2a, and pay the <3k for it. Drive it for a while and start from there.

The below setup will run you 30k if someone is selling an a bit more if you are building. Most series owners are willing to upgrade their rovers but you are talking about a defender. If you really want to know what one cost ask MB Jim how much he has into his rovers and he did almost all the work.

Jared

 

[greenmeanie]

I've been a leaf-sprung Jeep guy for the past 20 years and am considering a switch to one of the old school rovers. A Series III to be precise. What would the setup below cost me ballpark. I can do some work myself, but don't have serious $ to send one to ECR.

Subtract the cost of a Series III 88" that I can just tow away...

-300tdi(I like the mileage, power, simplicity(mechanical) and it seems to be a popular swap, if one can be found)
-5spd 380
-galvanized chassis
-coil suspension
-ps
-disc brakes
-defender axles
-I guess I can forget about heat and A/C in one of these.

-labor for the above

I think I have most everything covered, they are basically tractors.

Also recommend a shop in the Southeast(I'm in AL) if applicable. Any thoughts would be appreciated...

Don't bother with a 300TDi. There is a fairly common and well documented swap for the 200TDi that will give you all the power you nee in one of these. There's one of those on LR for $2800 or so right now. Getting it in there is still not cheap.

I wouldn't bother with coil suspension or the defender axles. You'll pretty much get all the performance you need out of a set parabolic leafs unless you are going 3 or 4 link and all that that involves. You can upgrade the series axles in many ways or swap a set of Toyota axles under there.

PS can be done but you won't have much change out of $1K doing it yourself with some used parts and new UJ's etc.

Brakes. If you want discs then look at a Toyota axle swap as it then becomes comparitively cheap. If not about $1100 for the RM kit on the front or $3K for the equivalent Timm Cooper kit through RN.

Gearbox. Why bother with an R380? Read TeriAnn's page on gearing for these trucks and it'll give you some good info.

Labour - are you a rich man? I've been building a 109 SW with a 292 Chevy (read cheap) 6 pot, NP435, PS, aircon, eventually some upgraded axles and stock suspension. I've had it for a year and am about 1/2 way done. I've been spending $1K each month doing it myself with some fab stuff like the gearbox adapter and modified steering column farmed out. It won't be cheap.

As stated above it'll nickle and dime you to death.

If you want a good comparison go search the LR forums for a bloke that goes by KevinNY and research his truck as it is pretty similar to your spec.

 

[Burningtree]

Most series owners are willing to upgrade their rovers but you are talking about a defender.

Yeah I suppose it sounds that way. I'd like to keep the SIII tub though for the look. It would be ideal if I could drop one onto a d90 rolling chassis and do the diesel swap. I want to be able to hit 70mph with ease on the highway and added torque would help offroad. Isn't the 200tdi a loss less powerful?

 

[Snagger]

Yeah I suppose it sounds that way. I'd like to keep the SIII tub though for the look. It would be ideal if I could drop one onto a d90 rolling chassis and do the diesel swap. I want to be able to hit 70mph with ease on the highway and added torque would help offroad. Isn't the 200tdi a loss less powerful?

That won't work without a lot of fabrication - the Defenders' wheels are in different locations to a Series vehicle. If you compare side-by-side pictures, you'll notice the front axle of a leafer is much closer to the bumper (I'd guess at about 3"). You also have the issue of a SWB leafer having an 88" wheel base while a 90 has a 92.7" wheel base. You'd have to cut the chassis and rear prop down to fit an 88" body, and it'll look terrible with the 90 axles sticking out from under the wings.

A 2.25 petrol should happily give you 70mph if it's in good order and you have an overdrive. The 200Tdi is significantly more powerful and has much more torque than the 2.25p and about twice as much as a 2.25nad.

The 200Tdi from a Defender is slightly less powerful than the Discovery model or the 300Tdi (same in all models), but not enough to be a worry. The good news is that while only the Defender 200Tdi will fit a 109, you can use the more easily available (hence cheaper) Discovery engine in the 88.

Having coiled suspension on a Series vehicle adds virtually no advantage over parabolics, and has several disadvantages when it comes to maintenance. The work involved, including moving the cross members and outriggers, is not justified unless you're determined to have RR type axles, in which case, combined with the desire for PAS and a Tdi, the advice to buy a 90 is best.

 

[Burningtree]

Ok based upon everyone's replies, it seems I've gotten a little ambitious. I was just trying to make it a little safer, comfy, and slightly modern. I guess I need to find one and drive it for a while to gauge what needs to be done.

At the minimum a diesel swap...

 

[Mercedesrover]

At the minimum a diesel swap...

Why a diesel? You really need to sit back and ask yourself what you are going to do with this truck and where are you going to take it. There are some reasons to run a diesel but there are just as many reasons to not run a diesel.

The truck you describe above if you're starting with a typical rough doner car will cost you at minimum $20k to build if you're doing all the work yourself. Probably closer to $25k, especially if you're doing a 109. If you have someone build it for you, this truck will cost near $75k.

If you don't need a 109, my suggestion, like others, is to buy a nice D90. $30K buys a pretty nice one and you'll have your truck now, not in 2 years (or 10 years) when you're done building it.

 

[stevenmd]

My $0.02 - drop in a 4.8 vortec with all the trimmings from the same donor vehicle. All in all, should cost you around $15K, including the motor to do that. You will have the power you need to hit highway speeds and have power steering. You can buy a little aftermarket heater that will work just fine. AC? Yeah, good luck on that one. Just open the front flaps.

Coil? Why? A properly tuned leafer will do just fine.

Disc brakes? Why? Properly maintained drums will be just fine.

Defender axles? Yes, you will need to upgrade the axles with a 4.8 vortec if you don't have rover's version on Dana 60's. That is where Keith comes in. Give him a call over at www.rovertracks.com. He makes axles swaps with any upgrade you want.

My advice? Find a nice 88 in good condition with a decent frame and start dropping everything in. If you want to ship the vehicle to the West Coast, I have a guy that can do the work for you.

This is all IMHO, of course!

 

[TeriAnn]

Yeah I suppose it sounds that way. I'd like to keep the SIII tub though for the look. It would be ideal if I could drop one onto a d90 rolling chassis and do the diesel swap. I want to be able to hit 70mph with ease on the highway and added torque would help offroad. Isn't the 200tdi a loss less powerful?

#1 there is a lot of homework you can do through web searches that can answer your basic questions. For instance: http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/enginePwrSpecs.htm has some engine power specs that you might find useful. a quick glance would let you know that the 200tdi is rated 111hp @4000RPM, 145 lbft @1800 RPM and the 300tdi is rated 113hp@4000 RPM, 195 lbft@1800 RPM.

A look at http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/gearboxes.htm would tell you the Series gearbox is considered to be strong enough for about 120 HP, 160lbft is about the limit on torque. Anything more than that would compromise reliability depending upon how you drive. So you could reasonably use a 200tdi with a Series gearbox but not a 300tdi. The Series gearbox has a shorter bellhousing allowing the engine to sit in the Series engine location. The R380 has a longer bellhousing and most people install the Defender front clip. Oh and the LT77 (stock with the 200tdi) shares the same bellhousing mounting pattern with the 2.25L engine. A little surfing and get you closer to deciding the best/cheapest/ most trouble free conversion pathway.

A 616 Mercedes four banger puts about about the same power as a LR petrol four banger and there is an adapter available to connect it to a Series gearbox. Do a little research.

#2 Some people who like the LOOK of a Series rig have just shortened the frame of a Range Rover Classic and mounted a Series body to the Range Rover frame. You get power steering, air conditioning, coil suspension, four wheel disc brakes and lots of power. And the engineering is already done for you. Sort of a saw, weld, bolt and play solution.

#3 Looks to me like you really want a Defender. One would cost you less than putting a finished conversion on the trail, have a higher resale value and can be worked on by other people that do not know your vehicle. A custom rig with parts from several different sources means you are pretty much the only person that knows what goes where.

#4 300 tdis are not legal in most if not all the US for highway use. They have never been approved for the US. You can be in a world of hurt if you have a vehicle that needs inspections. The first 300tdi equipped vehicles built should be legal to import to the US around 2017 or so. The first 200tdi factory equipped vehicles around 2015.

 

[Burningtree]

Why a diesel

It'd be nice to get 22-30mpg(my jeeps get 12) and have the simplicity of a purely mechanical engine. As was stated, I was a little ambitious with my first post. I'll keep reading.

 

[Mercedesrover]

It'd be nice to get 22-30mpg(my jeeps get 12)

I'll keep reading.

I've said it before...Mileage is the absolute last reason for doing a diesel conversion. The cost of a diesel conversion will out-cost any savings in fuel ten-fold.

 

[Burningtree]

Mercedesrover...
My reason for doing a swap is NOT cost based. I tend to go out for weeks at a time and have to cut my trips short because of the fuel. I used to make trips regular south of the border for MONTHs at a time. Please keep assumptions to yourself, as it does nothing to answer my questions. I know this is going to be expensive

 

[I Leak Oil]

Hey man, no need to be rude. I think you'll find most people here are very helpful, but not for long if you act like that.
Jason T.