4xforum.
- Thread starter zimm
- Start date
David Harris
Expedition Leader
I've been a fan of that show for awhile now. Does some great off road comparisons. Subscriptions are paid, but I might just pony up to see the rest of his videos.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
Yes, and a good lesson to learn from this is to avoid arguing with someone over an emotional issue, because both lose. I'm thinking of all the debates on here and other forums over vehicles, philosophies, etc. that are actually emotional, not practical. Practicality is great, but it's emotion that ultimately rules the day for most of us.
2025 deleted member
Well-known member
So are you saying that the JKU is better "practically" than a G and a G is better "emotionally"? J/K!!
zimm
Expedition Leader
the issue i find is, people dont want to admit the purchase was emotion.
when i bought my D110nas, formost was, it was a smoking deal. second, i was like a school kid. the cool factor is untouchable with one of those.
after living with it for 2 years.. what a hunk of ****, and it was near showroom mint. i was well aware of my bias to begin with, but, i became fascinated at the level of denial other owners have.
thus my ongoing questioning of the G wagon and the jeep. my lust for the 110 was equaled by my loathing of a jeep, but ive found, of you put vehicle bias aside... you become enlightened.
example:
the G is built like a tank, and the jeep is definitely lighter construction.
old me says, "yea man, this thing is like driving the golden gate bridge" and i knew i didnt need that, but i liked it.
new me sits down and looks at things my subconscious avoided, like, is the extra 1500 pounds in curb weight actually buying anything usable in a medium size SUV? no. you cant load it enough. over engineering isnt good engineering, its wasteful engineering, and in this case, its wasting initial cost and 5-10mpg. weight is an enemy on the trail. i recall sinking in mud as a sammi scooted, or floated, right around me.
but the fans wont hear it. the testers that run the site dont look into that when they praise. they dont question if something built to mil spec is actually contributing to the performance of the truck, and not hindering it, when used in a non military application, like overland. instead it is blindly praised.
etc etc etc.
remember, this isn't a vehicle fan club site. there are plenty of jeep, toyota and G sites for that. here is where one ought to be critical of the product, and discuss its failures, because only what you are doing, or failing to do, with it counts.
zimm
Expedition Leader
im not sure what hes saying, but if "emotion, style, luxury, and class" are factored out, that is the case. but if you want to own one truck, those things may be important.
David Harris
Expedition Leader
I wasn't talking about the G/JKU debate per se, but to answer your question, I would say the whole package is important to look at, not just practicality. Maybe it's just me, but I have owned very practical vehicles that I still don't like and was sorry I bought them, because when I went out every day to drive them, they bored me. Didn't feel like washing them, maintaining them, seeing myself at every stoplight, whatever. The vehicles performed the task I presented them fine, I just didn't love them. I guess it's important to me that the vehicles I own, maintain and drive have that certain intangible emotional fire, or something that brings real satisfaction for me. If you look at my sig line I think you'll see what I mean, and I think that's what Scott meant about the G and why he also owns a Land Rover, and advises everyone else to just drive what they love.
Driving an under-engineered vehicle is the true enemy on the trail. I think the Rubicon falls into this category of under-engineered for many reasons, largest of which is the alarming frequency they break front axle housings off-road. Pic of JKU broken housing.
Then there is the very important safety aspect: Having seen several examples of JKs and Gs after both high and low speed rollover and t-bone accidents there is no questioning the value of those extra 1500lbs you mentioned.
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zimm
Expedition Leader
i cant speak for the axles other to say the G's arnt dana 60's either. as a unit they fail as noted in the other thread.
a good point to be made tho, is a jeep is never a wagon. its a hard top on a convertible, and the roof doesnt add to impact reliability.
its still 700 pounds heavier than my LC100. a truck i consider engineered for the job and by no means lacking in rigidity.
That is a very good point, i wonder where the weight went.
Scott Brady
Founder
Exactly.
Even a Land Cruiser is an emotional purchase.
The real tragedy is the amount of time and money people spend on their vehicle instead of actually traveling. I would much rather be traveling around the world in a Suzuki than have a Land Cruiser sitting in the driveway. . .