Am i reading this correctly? 2016 taco still has rear drum brakes...

[Clutch]

One thing for sure its hard to build a unibody platform strong enough to get 7000lb tow ratings and 1500lb load ratings.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/transitvanwagon/specifications/towing/

 

[Clutch]

The apologists are going to light you up over this post... lol

Yeah they aren't perfect that is for sure. I was on a the fence of the Colorado, F150 or the new Tacoma. Test drove them all recently...all nice trucks, but the Toyota...is just that...a Toyota. Have been a Yota owner for 25 years now...why stop now? Honestly, drum brakes and all ...it stopped fine....felt pretty stiff & burly too, more than enough power for my needs, maybe too much!

Biggest gripe: I can't get the ACLB SR V6 4WD with a manual trans, asked Toyota corporate why that combination doesn't exist, it did last year...they referred me to a dealer....great...just great...dealers know even less...

I don't know if the Colorado will outperform the Tacoma on the sales floor or on a dirt track....I do know that Chevy and other companies are trying hard to innovate and redefine the mid-sized segment while Toyota is seemingly resting on its laurels in the belief that its brand pedigree will keep its sales up.

Diesel would be cool, I dunno though...not sure I would want to deal with it for the long term. One of my long time diesel fan boi friends finally gave up his diesel truck and VW Jetta...he is over it....just too much fussing as in terms of maintenance. Typical VW hit 40K miles and the gremlins started coming, traded it on a gasser VW, told him...you must of not learned your lesson...get a Toyota, mang.

He has a Silverado too...keeps on breaking front end parts offroading...those are off my list now too. Keeps on saying how much he likes my Toyotas...not sure why he won't buy one..or two.

Seems like all my diesel buddies do, is ***** and moan about their trucks. Me, I just gas and oil the good ol' Tacoma, and that is basically it.

 

[moonshiner]

Ummm...maybe try cheching the linked article frist. The Colorado tested was a gasser...so it didn't weigh 4700 ibs. As tested weight was only 40 lbs more than the Tacoma.

 

[Dalko43]

Ummm...maybe try cheching the linked article frist. The Colorado tested was a gasser...so it didn't weigh 4700 ibs. As tested weight was only 40 lbs more than the Tacoma.

Yes but you're still missing the point...comparing stopping distances of two different vehicles (granted they are both BOF, mid-sized pickups) with different chassis design, different weight distributions, and likely different tires is not a valid way to compare drum brakes to disk brakes....there are a few factors, other than brake design, that go into stopping a vehicle.

Disk brakes are better, which is why most modern vehicles utilize them instead of drum brakes.

As much as I criticize the new Tacoma, I still acknowledge it is a very capable vehicle....but that shouldn't prevent me, or you, or anyone else from acknowledging areas where Toyota cut corners (probably to save money).

 

[Clutch]

As much as I criticize the new Tacoma, I still acknowledge it is a very capable vehicle....but that shouldn't prevent me, or you, or anyone else from acknowledging areas where Toyota cut corners (probably to save money).

It is, what it is...not exactly what we were hoping for...but it is still a Tacoma, they fixed it just enough without ruining an old formula.

We can argue numbers all day long... Everyone needs go test drive one, they are pretty dang nice! All of those numbers fade away when you actually drive it. Drum brakes, really!? couldn't even tell...

That grill isn't too bad in person. Really liked the interior, much improvement over the old version.

 

[moonshiner]

Yes but you're still missing the point...comparing stopping distances of two different vehicles (granted they are both BOF, mid-sized pickups) with different chassis design, different weight distributions, and likely different tires is not a valid way to compare drum brakes to disk brakes....there are a few factors, other than brake design, that go into stopping a vehicle.

Disk brakes are better, which is why most modern vehicles utilize them instead of drum brakes.

As much as I criticize the new Tacoma, I still acknowledge it is a very capable vehicle....but that shouldn't prevent me, or you, or anyone else from acknowledging areas where Toyota cut corners (probably to save money).

Umm...I thought the point you were making was that GM (Chevy) had better truck because they offered 4 wheel disc brakes. Yet the Tacoma still had better braking performance even though the Tacoma had more aggressive tires with a higher aspect ratio. The Colorado had HT tires while Tacoma had AT tires. While not true AT tires, still more aggressive than the Colorado's. The weight distribution is within 1% of each other.

Or is the point to praise a truck just because it has better specs yet perform worse?

You keep saying disc brakes are better than drums. But better at what? Stopping power? Drum brakes generate more power than the tires can handle. Modern cars whether disc or drums will easily lock the tires if it didn't have ABS. Maintenance? Disc brakes are easier for the home mechanic but drums typically last longer though they require periodic cleaning due to the linings being enclosed. The only advantage disc have over drums is heat dissipation. That's why they are used on the front, which does most of the braking (60 to 90 percent) hence generate way more heat than the rears. Toyota used rear drums because it's cheaper from a production standpoint (regardless of what Toyota says). But why pay more when you can get the same braking performance for less money.

 

[Dalko43]

Umm...I thought the point you were making was that GM (Chevy) had better truck because they offered 4 wheel disc brakes. Yet the Tacoma still had better braking performance even though the Tacoma had more aggressive tires with a higher aspect ratio. The Colorado had HT tires while Tacoma had AT tires. While not true AT tires, still more aggressive than the Colorado's. The weight distribution is within 1% of each other.

Or is the point to praise a truck just because it has better specs yet perform worse?

You keep saying disc brakes are better than drums. But better at what? Stopping power? Drum brakes generate more power than the tires can handle. Modern cars whether disc or drums will easily lock the tires if it didn't have ABS. Maintenance? Disc brakes are easier for the home mechanic but drums typically last longer though they require periodic cleaning due to the linings being enclosed. The only advantage disc have over drums is heat dissipation. That's why they are used on the front, which does most of the braking (60 to 90 percent) hence generate way more heat than the rears. Toyota used rear drums because it's cheaper from a production standpoint (regardless of what Toyota says). But why pay more when you can get the same braking performance for less money.

I wasn't making the point that Chevy had a better truck with the Colorado. I was making the point that Chevy was making a greater attempt to innovate and redefine what has essentially become a stagnant market niche...mostly due to Toyota dominating said market niche and having no real incentive to change or improve.

You are still missing the point on braking capabilities....there are a lot of factors that go into how quickly a vehicle stops. Do you also use 0-60 times to determine which engine is better or "faster" between the 4.0L in the late Xterra and the 4.0L in the current 4runner? Or do you also take into account that the vehicles have different weights, different transmissions, different gear ratios, different throttle responses, different ECU programming? This is not a straight apples to apples comparison is my point....similarly, there are a lot of other factors, other than the brake setup, that will result in different braking results between two different vehicles. The fact that the Tacoma has a shorter stopping distance than the Colorado does not mean that drum brakes are as good or better than disk brakes....you're drawing a false conclusion from that.

Disk brakes are superior, especially because of their heat dissipation capabilities....when your traction control lights up, when you use crawl control, when you need to modulate your speed going up and down uneven terrain...what do you think that is doing to the brakes?

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying...I'm not saying that drum brakes on the Tacoma's rear wheels will make or break its performance....I readily acknowledge that the Tacoma is a solid and time-tested platform. But let's call a spade a spade...disk brakes are better than drum brakes...no need to serve up all these apologies and excuses on Toyota's behalf.

P.S. On a side-note, I thought that I brought up some pretty valid points about boxed frame vs c channel and diesel advantages over gasoline engines. Do you have any feedback on that, or are you going to focus solely on proving how the Tacoma's brakes are better than all the others?

 

[moonshiner]

I wasn't making the point that Chevy had a better truck with the Colorado. I was making the point that Chevy was making a greater attempt to innovate and redefine what has essentially become a stagnant market niche...mostly due to Toyota dominating said market niche and having no real incentive to change or improve.

You are still missing the point on braking capabilities....there are a lot of factors that go into how quickly a vehicle stops. Do you also use 0-60 times to determine which engine is better or "faster" between the 4.0L in the late Xterra and the 4.0L in the current 4runner? Or do you also take into account that the vehicles have different weights, different transmissions, different gear ratios, different throttle responses, different ECU programming? This is not a straight apples to apples comparison is my point....similarly, there are a lot of other factors, other than the brake setup, that will result in different braking results between two different vehicles. The fact that the Tacoma has a shorter stopping distance than the Colorado does not mean that drum brakes are as good or better than disk brakes....you're drawing a false conclusion from that.

Disk brakes are superior, especially because of their heat dissipation capabilities....when your traction control lights up, when you use crawl control, when you need to modulate your speed going up and down uneven terrain...what do you think that is doing to the brakes?

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying...I'm not saying that drum brakes on the Tacoma's rear wheels will make or break its performance....I readily acknowledge that the Tacoma is a solid and time-tested platform. But let's call a spade a spade...disk brakes are better than drum brakes...no need to serve up all these apologies and excuses on Toyota's behalf.

Serve up excuses? LOL. You are one making excuses for why the Colorado can't stop shorter then the Tacoma even though it has more street oriented tires and "better" rear brakes.

Greater attempt to innovate? LOL. Yeah...rear disc brakes are so innovating. Yet this innovative new truck can't even out perform the "unimproved" truck. Why does Toyota need to redefined the segment? Toyota already have what the segment wants. When you constantly have to radically change your design, that means your design wasn't effective in the first place.

Disc brakes are better than drums at heat dissipation only. That's it.

Yes...let's call a spade a spade. The Tacoma's brake system is as good or better than the "innovative" Colorado's. It doesn't matter what the specs says, all that should matter is how it performs both short term and long term.

My experience with the previous Tacoma ATRAC system is that it is superior to other automaker's offroad traction control system except for Landrover's, which I think the Tacoma's is almost as good. No problems with the drum brakes either. Doesn't seem like there's much internet chatter regarding the rear drum brakes be detrimental to the ATRAC system.

 

[bkg]

I humbly request that Toyota go back to drum front brakes to ensure peace and tranquility amongst those who believe in their superiority.

 

[calicamper]

I wasn't making the point that Chevy had a better truck with the Colorado. I was making the point that Chevy was making a greater attempt to innovate and redefine what has essentially become a stagnant market niche...mostly due to Toyota dominating said market niche and having no real incentive to change or improve.

You are still missing the point on braking capabilities....there are a lot of factors that go into how quickly a vehicle stops. Do you also use 0-60 times to determine which engine is better or "faster" between the 4.0L in the late Xterra and the 4.0L in the current 4runner? Or do you also take into account that the vehicles have different weights, different transmissions, different gear ratios, different throttle responses, different ECU programming? This is not a straight apples to apples comparison is my point....similarly, there are a lot of other factors, other than the brake setup, that will result in different braking results between two different vehicles. The fact that the Tacoma has a shorter stopping distance than the Colorado does not mean that drum brakes are as good or better than disk brakes....you're drawing a false conclusion from that.

Disk brakes are superior, especially because of their heat dissipation capabilities....when your traction control lights up, when you use crawl control, when you need to modulate your speed going up and down uneven terrain...what do you think that is doing to the brakes?

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying...I'm not saying that drum brakes on the Tacoma's rear wheels will make or break its performance....I readily acknowledge that the Tacoma is a solid and time-tested platform. But let's call a spade a spade...disk brakes are better than drum brakes...no need to serve up all these apologies and excuses on Toyota's behalf.

P.S. On a side-note, I thought that I brought up some pretty valid points about boxed frame vs c channel and diesel advantages over gasoline engines. Do you have any feedback on that, or are you going to focus solely on proving how the Tacoma's brakes are better than all the others?

Agreed. Toyota didn't invest much in the refresh. The taco has just been printing cash for them for yrs with minimal design effort. I give GM and now Ford some cred for putting some effort into a modern platform.

 

[austintaco]

the C channel/boxed frame debate has been discussed multiple times and I think that's why nobody is really commenting on it. As for the brakes, I do think that the stopping distance is a good indicator of the braking system. By system, I am including the front brakes, the booster, the master, the rear brakes, the pads, the tires, the proportioning valve, etc...In that regard, the Toyota would appear to have superior braking with older rear tech. For the record, my drums on my Taco have had a flawless 120K so far.

 

[moonshiner]

I humbly request that Toyota go back to drum front brakes to ensure peace and tranquility amongst those who believe in their superiority.

Who said they were superior?

 

[moonshiner]

For the record, my drums on my Taco have had a flawless 120K so far.

Are those still the originals from the factory?

And this is why Toyota still use them. They get the same or better performance both short term and long term with drum brakes, so why use something more expensive just because all the new kids on the block have them.

 

[austintaco]

Are those still the originals from the factory?

And this is why Toyota still use them. They get the same or better performance both short term and long term with drum brakes, so why use something more expensive just because all the new kids on the block have them.

Yes, originals.

 

[moonshiner]

Yes, originals.

Nice!