Am i reading this correctly? 2016 taco still has rear drum brakes...

Clutch

<---Pass
Jeep cant make em fast enough. Toyota is simply going after the percieved "Active" life style. The 4runner and Taco are Toyotas products targeting that market. I'm not a GM guy never owned one. But the recent GMs in the family are proving to be pretty good. My Toyota hasnt been any better than the GM products. Interior isnt anything to write home about, the GM interior has held up better.

My father-in-law is a GM guy, he said he has always had good luck them. He was out here this past summer, he was a little shocked with how many miles I have on the Tacoma [310K], said... damn son...that many miles and this thing still feels tight...but it isn't a Chevy that is too bad, I said to him exactly... :D

GM will have to earn trust with the Colorado to pull Toyota guys away...and that will take some time.
 

KiwiKurt

Explorer
yeah, I say these grips knowing Ill end up buying a Tacoma in a couple years.

While the Colorado/Canyon seems like a good truck with some good options and a diesel on the way, at the end of the day its going to be the Tacoma with the aftermarket. There will be an entire host of armor, aluminum bumpers, long travel expo style lifts, etc etc avail for the Tacoma very soon. 2 years from now you still wont be able to fit 33's on a Canyon unless you "redneck" lift it, and the front bumper and sliders you are buying are made out of steel in some guy's garage.

That's the nature of the beast I learned the hard way with the Nissan. If you want strong after market support, Jeep and Toyota are your options.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
I realize this is the Toyota section of the forum, but people need to be honest with themselves on this....Toyota has dominated the mid-sized truck market up to this point. The 1st and 2nd gen tacomas were reliable and very capable performers out of the box. But they were not without their faults....anyone remember the frame rust issues and recalls? Within the brand as a whole, there are plenty of issues with some of the other platforms (the bed rattle/shake with the Tundra, airbag recalls)....I'm a Toyota customer, but I can still acknowledge the that the brand has had its faults.

The real question is not what the Tacoma has been in the past, but rather what it will be in the future.

This 3rd gen tacoma is:
-Still using a C channel for parts of its frame, as opposed to a more rigid fully boxed one.
-Still using rear drum brakes.
-Using a 3.5L atkinson with nothing special in terms of hp, torque or fuel economy (certainly very little change over the last generation).

There is nothing special or innovative about this new Tacoma, granted it was developed from a platform that had pretty good track record, especially off road.

Meanwhile, Chevy is about to offer a fully boxed frame truck, with 4 wheel disk brakes and a diesel...which sounds more akin to a Hilux than Toyota's own Tacoma.

I don't know if the Colorado will outperform the Tacoma on the sales floor or on a dirt track....I do know that Chevy and other companies are trying hard to innovate and redefine the mid-sized segment while Toyota is seemingly resting on its laurels in the belief that its brand pedigree will keep its sales up.
 

bkg

Explorer
I realize this is the Toyota section of the forum, but people need to be honest with themselves on this....Toyota has dominated the mid-sized truck market up to this point. The 1st and 2nd gen tacomas were reliable and very capable performers out of the box. But they were not without their faults....anyone remember the frame rust issues and recalls? Within the brand as a whole, there are plenty of issues with some of the other platforms (the bed rattle/shake with the Tundra, airbag recalls)....I'm a Toyota customer, but I can still acknowledge the that the brand has had its faults.

The real question is not what the Tacoma has been in the past, but rather what it will be in the future.

This 3rd gen tacoma is:
-Still using a C channel for parts of its frame, as opposed to a more rigid fully boxed one.
-Still using rear drum brakes.
-Using a 3.5L atkinson with nothing special in terms of hp, torque or fuel economy (certainly very little change over the last generation).

There is nothing special or innovative about this new Tacoma, granted it was developed from a platform that had pretty good track record, especially off road.

Meanwhile, Chevy is about to offer a fully boxed frame truck, with 4 wheel disk brakes and a diesel...which sounds more akin to a Hilux than Toyota's own Tacoma.

I don't know if the Colorado will outperform the Tacoma on the sales floor or on a dirt track....I do know that Chevy and other companies are trying hard to innovate and redefine the mid-sized segment while Toyota is seemingly resting on its laurels in the belief that its brand pedigree will keep its sales up.

The apologists are going to light you up over this post... lol
 

forty2

Adventurer
Engine, brakes, frame, sure it could be better but I'm fine with all of it and I know what I'm getting. What I actually care about is the thing that GM isn't delivering:

Patvxfkh.jpg
 

moonshiner

Observer
I realize this is the Toyota section of the forum, but people need to be honest with themselves on this....Toyota has dominated the mid-sized truck market up to this point. The 1st and 2nd gen tacomas were reliable and very capable performers out of the box. But they were not without their faults....anyone remember the frame rust issues and recalls? Within the brand as a whole, there are plenty of issues with some of the other platforms (the bed rattle/shake with the Tundra, airbag recalls)....I'm a Toyota customer, but I can still acknowledge the that the brand has had its faults.

The real question is not what the Tacoma has been in the past, but rather what it will be in the future.

This 3rd gen tacoma is:
-Still using a C channel for parts of its frame, as opposed to a more rigid fully boxed one.
-Still using rear drum brakes.
-Using a 3.5L atkinson with nothing special in terms of hp, torque or fuel economy (certainly very little change over the last generation).

There is nothing special or innovative about this new Tacoma, granted it was developed from a platform that had pretty good track record, especially off road.

Meanwhile, Chevy is about to offer a fully boxed frame truck, with 4 wheel disk brakes and a diesel...which sounds more akin to a Hilux than Toyota's own Tacoma.

I don't know if the Colorado will outperform the Tacoma on the sales floor or on a dirt track....I do know that Chevy and other companies are trying hard to innovate and redefine the mid-sized segment while Toyota is seemingly resting on its laurels in the belief that its brand pedigree will keep its sales up.

GM should have gone to unibody construction. Much much much stiffer and more rigid than a boxed frame can ever be. If they are really trying to innovate that's what they should have done.

FYI...Fully boxed frame is not a new innovation. It's been around since forever. Same for unibody. Each type of construction has pros and cons.

The new Hilux still have drum brakes too btw. The Tacoma actually stopped 2 feet shorter than the Colorado. So rear drums performed just as good in this application. http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...ng-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I think load performance has more to do with peoples interest in disc brakes than empty brake test runs. As for the unibody suggestion. No idea what to say except that everyone has the ability to an oppinion. One thing for sure its hard to build a unibody platform strong enough to get 7000lb tow ratings and 1500lb load ratings. Try reading the designer interview with the former Mazda lead designer who moved to Tesla. #1 Thing he said was hugely different and he had to completely change his mind set on was how strong a unibody vehicle could be without a transmission tunnel bisecting the structure and having a huge impact on strength and rigidity.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Full frame vehicles have advantages. For hauling loads and bolting heavy stuff on the ends the full frame design is superior to Unibody. No need to hang heavy stuff off the ends? No need to put 1500lbs over the rear axle? The unibody works great but has strength limitations for truck type uses. Especially when you have a transmission tunnel bisecting the unibody platform.
 

moonshiner

Observer
The unibody comment was in regards to people wanting a stiffer chassis. It is a fact that unibody construction is much much STIFFER than a ladder frame (c-channel or boxed section). Stiffness is not the same as strength. Most people don't seem to understand that. Is the C-channel as stiff as a boxed frame? No. Is it weaker. No. But if you want a stiffer chassis, get a unibody.

Yes. Ladder frame construction is better for "truck" duty than a unibody. Why? Because it can flex and bend without breaking. But if you go by the comments regarding Toyota's construction method, they don't want that. They want stiffness. You want stiffness, get a unibody. Nothing wrong with a unibody if you're cruising mostly on pavement. It's superior to a ladder frame truck in terms of on road ride and handling and packaging.

Here's a test from 2012. But the rear drum braked Tacoma still bested the all-disc braked Frontier in loaded braking by 10 feet.
http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2012/01/2012-midsize-shootout-track-day.html
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
The unibody comment was in regards to people wanting a stiffer chassis. It is a fact that unibody construction is much much STIFFER than a ladder frame (c-channel or boxed section). Stiffness is not the same as strength. Most people don't seem to understand that. Is the C-channel as stiff as a boxed frame? No. Is it weaker. No. But if you want a stiffer chassis, get a unibody.

Yes. Ladder frame construction is better for "truck" duty than a unibody. Why? Because it can flex and bend without breaking. But if you go by the comments regarding Toyota's construction method, they don't want that. They want stiffness. You want stiffness, get a unibody. Nothing wrong with a unibody if you're cruising mostly on pavement. It's superior to a ladder frame truck in terms of on road ride and handling and packaging.

Here's a test from 2012. But the rear drum braked Tacoma still bested the all-disc braked Frontier in loaded braking by 10 feet.
http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2012/01/2012-midsize-shootout-track-day.html
Again disc is superior to drum regarding loads and trying to slow and stop under real world use, not track tests. How about doing a comparison coming down pikes peak? Track testing is just basic data everyone knows discs shed heat far better than drums. Besides who on this forum drives a stock Tacoma with stock tires and cares about a couple of feet difference braking? I bet all the tacos sporting after market tires, suspension all run far past the stock stopping distances anyway.

Given the choice pretty much everyone would much preferr disc brakes.
 

moonshiner

Observer
Sure. Conduct that test down Pike's peak and present your data. I'm interested in the results.

So...only Tacoma's braking degrade when aftermarket tires and suspension and bumpers are added? Hmmm. This must be the reason why more people run the Chevy Colorado than Tacoma for overland duty.
 

bkg

Explorer
Sure. Conduct that test down Pike's peak and present your data. I'm interested in the results.

So...only Tacoma's braking degrade when aftermarket tires and suspension and bumpers are added? Hmmm. This must be the reason why more people run the Chevy Colorado than Tacoma for overland duty.

Is there anything that you cab admit is not great about the Tacoma? Very serious question.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
GM should have gone to unibody construction. Much much much stiffer and more rigid than a boxed frame can ever be. If they are really trying to innovate that's what they should have done.

FYI...Fully boxed frame is not a new innovation. It's been around since forever. Same for unibody. Each type of construction has pros and cons.

Up to this point, unibody construction has offered stiffness and rigidity for onroad applications...theoretically I guess someone could design a unibody vehicle that is strong enough to stand up to the stresses and abuses of off-road and work use, but with the exception of Land Rover's Integrated-Body-on-Frame for the LR4 (which comes with a huge weight penalty and really isn't a true unibody), I have yet to see anyone successfully develop and implement such a design.

The whole reason for having a body-on-frame construction is to mitigate or prevent the vehicle's body from twisting or fracturing during off-road or work use. Yes, all body-on-frames, by their nature, will encounter some amount of twist. But the principle, as I understand it, is to build a frame to be as rigid as possible so as to allow the suspension, not the frame, to conform and work with whatever terrain is being encountered. That's why Toyota still builds the 4runner (and Prado) and Land Cruiser (200 series and 70 series) and Hilux on fully boxed frames - to keep the frame as rigid as possible in order to reduce twist and stress.

The Toyota, and Tundra, to my knowledge are the only BOF vehicles that Toyota makes with C Channel frames, which are less rigid and do twist quite a bit more than the traditional box frame. I'm sure someone could throw out some advantages associated that kind of design, but for the purposes of off-roading and utilitarian use, a boxed frame does make more sense....hence why Toyota uses that design for the rest of its BOF offerings.

The new Hilux still have drum brakes too btw. The Tacoma actually stopped 2 feet shorter than the Colorado. So rear drums performed just as good in this application. http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...ng-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

The Tacoma, at its heaviest, comes in at around 4400lbs:
http://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2016/tacoma_ebrochure.pdf
The Colorado, with the diesel, will come in at around 4700lbs:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/colorado/2016.tab1.html

Factoring that and different weight distributions and the different payload ratings, I don't think we can consider these braking test results as a definitive comparison of drum brakes versus disk brakes...in principle, disk brakes do provide much better stopping capabilities, which is why most modern vehicles, including most Toyotas, use them over drum brakes.

The unibody comment was in regards to people wanting a stiffer chassis. It is a fact that unibody construction is much much STIFFER than a ladder frame (c-channel or boxed section). Stiffness is not the same as strength. Most people don't seem to understand that. Is the C-channel as stiff as a boxed frame? No. Is it weaker. No. But if you want a stiffer chassis, get a unibody.

Yes frame twist will happen. It's all about mitigating or minimizing frame twist, not eliminating it. When it comes to boxed frames versus C channels, one design is better at that than the other.

Yes. Ladder frame construction is better for "truck" duty than a unibody. Why? Because it can flex and bend without breaking. But if you go by the comments regarding Toyota's construction method, they don't want that. They want stiffness. You want stiffness, get a unibody. Nothing wrong with a unibody if you're cruising mostly on pavement. It's superior to a ladder frame truck in terms of on road ride and handling and packaging.

Refer to my discussion above.
 
Last edited:

calicamper

Expedition Leader
The unibody comment was in regards to people wanting a stiffer chassis. It is a fact that unibody construction is much much STIFFER than a ladder frame (c-channel or boxed section). Stiffness is not the same as strength. Most people don't seem to understand that. Is the C-channel as stiff as a boxed frame? No. Is it weaker. No. But if you want a stiffer chassis, get a unibody.

Yes. Ladder frame construction is better for "truck" duty than a unibody. Why? Because it can flex and bend without breaking. But if you go by the comments regarding Toyota's construction method, they don't want that. They want stiffness. You want stiffness, get a unibody. Nothing wrong with a unibody if you're cruising mostly on pavement. It's superior to a ladder frame truck in terms of on road ride and handling and packaging.

Here's a test from 2012. But the rear drum braked Tacoma still bested the all-disc braked Frontier in loaded braking by 10 feet.
http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2012/01/2012-midsize-shootout-track-day.html

Is there anything that you cab admit is not great about the Tacoma? Very serious question.

Lol thinking the same thing. Hell I've never even owned a GM product 914runner, 93 Landcruiser and my current 07 Sequoia. I'm over the whole this brand is better than that brand BS. Get what you want. But please stop thinking Toyota sprinkles magical dust on their vehicles that some how makes them massively superior to other options out there. Thats just not the case today.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
186,729
Messages
2,889,460
Members
226,872
Latest member
Supreet.dhaliwal
Top