110 Expedition/camper
- Thread starter MOB993
- Start date
TeriAnn
Explorer
So I started on the storage and kitchen end of the build. Not sure if I was right to put the stove in like so.
EEEEK!! Is that wood right next to the burner? I would rethink that location if I were you and do not forget that a stove throws off a lot of heat so you will not want anything above the stove either. many people have a fold up or down table on the inside of their back door and set the stove on that when they cook.
Of your two locations I would go the the stove on top of the counter.
Aye that looks a bit safer!
Did you try a pot or two on the burner? I ask because when the stove is back close to the van side the pot wont sit properly on the ring. And I see you've not got any insulation on the van sides yet - if it were me, I'd fit a slab of Kingspan (or similar) insulation board into the recess created by those ribs on the van side (one is just behind your stove) and then sheet ply right over the whole side down to the point where the side curves under, and up to about an inch above the internal gutter - the inch allows you to drop wiring down the back easily, and using those ribs as attachment points for the ply through which flanged self tappers would go.
At the moment if you use the stove the condensation created by heat+cold van side will be significant and it's all going to run down and saturate the wood below, which will soon deform, discolour and rot/smell. And if you try to put insulation on now it will decrease the space you have to get the pot onto the burner, unless you use sheet foam which may not sit 'comfortably' near a nekkid flame! Although you could cover the foam with a sheet of thin aluminium to make it less combustible.
From long experience - don't underestimate the amount of condensation you'll get - simply from being in there and breathing overnight you will generate a load of drips and runs - then add cold weather and you'll get more, then add a stove and it will be positively streaming down - it can make life seriously unpleasant and the smells very hard to get rid of. The difference between a dry fresh-smelling sleeping bag and a damp clingy one with a hint of danish blue cheese about it is rather noticeable
That aside I like your use of folding bits and creative uses of space. With some creativity you can fit a lot in that small area. Keep it up.
Did you try a pot or two on the burner? I ask because when the stove is back close to the van side the pot wont sit properly on the ring. And I see you've not got any insulation on the van sides yet - if it were me, I'd fit a slab of Kingspan (or similar) insulation board into the recess created by those ribs on the van side (one is just behind your stove) and then sheet ply right over the whole side down to the point where the side curves under, and up to about an inch above the internal gutter - the inch allows you to drop wiring down the back easily, and using those ribs as attachment points for the ply through which flanged self tappers would go.
At the moment if you use the stove the condensation created by heat+cold van side will be significant and it's all going to run down and saturate the wood below, which will soon deform, discolour and rot/smell. And if you try to put insulation on now it will decrease the space you have to get the pot onto the burner, unless you use sheet foam which may not sit 'comfortably' near a nekkid flame! Although you could cover the foam with a sheet of thin aluminium to make it less combustible.
From long experience - don't underestimate the amount of condensation you'll get - simply from being in there and breathing overnight you will generate a load of drips and runs - then add cold weather and you'll get more, then add a stove and it will be positively streaming down - it can make life seriously unpleasant and the smells very hard to get rid of. The difference between a dry fresh-smelling sleeping bag and a damp clingy one with a hint of danish blue cheese about it is rather noticeable
That aside I like your use of folding bits and creative uses of space. With some creativity you can fit a lot in that small area. Keep it up.
Yea definitely safer as soon as I had it done I knew that it wouldn't work. The stove can actually slide forward a bit away from the side.
The stove in the picture won't be used all that much I will use my Coleman for all except when I need to simmer food because the Coleman doesn't simmer.
I haven't slept in the land rover yet but I have plenty of experience with condensation and waking up damp and depending on how badly I get stung by the tax man insulating is the next stage. I'm on a tight budget and can't afford it till I find out how much the tax will be. I used "waterproof" ply so hopefully it doesn't rot. Would the addition of a small pc fan to extract the moist air help?
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The stove in the picture won't be used all that much I will use my Coleman for all except when I need to simmer food because the Coleman doesn't simmer.
I haven't slept in the land rover yet but I have plenty of experience with condensation and waking up damp and depending on how badly I get stung by the tax man insulating is the next stage. I'm on a tight budget and can't afford it till I find out how much the tax will be. I used "waterproof" ply so hopefully it doesn't rot. Would the addition of a small pc fan to extract the moist air help?
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TeriAnn
Explorer
The steel bowl beside it will be the sink.
1. Why have 2 stoves? replace both with one stove that can simmer and have a couple burners. You should be thinking about minimizing gear by not having multiple things for the same purpose. Gear that is there for one thing is very inefficient. Gears should be able to play at least two roles well, and gear that can handle three or more different roles is a star player.
2. I suggest rethinking the bowl as a sink. It is small you will fill it up quickly and need to lift it out of the board & open the back to toss the water for every little thing. A sink with a drain is MUCH more useful. Especially if you can plumb running water to it. There are small narrow sinks out there. Check the RV web sites. Also look at sinks intended for kitchen islands or home bars. Much more useful than a small bowl.
3. Your revised location looks a lot safer but that burner is very close to the wall. There will be grease splatter against it f you do any frying. If you insulate the wall you will need a heat shield. Your idea of putting a slide out under it to get it away from the wall whilst cooking appears to be a solution. But again, it is an awful lot of work and extra interior space because your main stove doesn't simmer. Personally I would abandon the two stove solution, ebay both stoves and hunt for one that can handle all your cooking needs. There is a good selection of stoves out there. Take your best guess, buy one and if you can not get it to simmer take it back & try a different one.
Small fan might help a bit, but not a great deal to be honest. And brings electrical consumption and noise to the party.
Your cheapest option? White polystyrene insulation sheet as used under concrete floors, stuck to the van sides with non-solvent glue (solvent glue will melt the poly). One sheet 8x4 feet will do the whole van. Cost about £6 or so from a builder's merchant (dont go to B&Q or Wickes as its more expensive). Over the top of it put ordinary building grade ply - your choice of thickness, but 1/4 inch is perfect and a damaged sheet from the builders merchant (they usually have some) will be £10 or less. They often have broken white polystyrene too - so worth asking. These combined will make a huge difference.
If you want to be really clever use a roll of the very thin foam that is supplied with laminate flooring - stick that all over the alloy then put the 'styrene in, then ply and forget. Doing it now before you commit to the rest if the interior will save you a lot of grief. And crucially as you're on a tight budget - it WILL be cheap if you shop around the builders. (even ask on a building site for offcuts - they usually skip them).
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The aim of this build was to take a standard van type 110 and convert it into what the Irish Government call a motorhome and there are a few criteria which must be met to reclassify the vehicle into a motor home.
"A vehicle of Category M with living accommodation space which contains the
following equipment as a minimum:
(a) seats and table;
(b) sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(c) cooking facilities;
(d) storage facilities.
This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment. However, the
table may be designed to be easily removable."
I must meet these requirements especially as my 110 is probably the first of its kind to go through this legal conversion process here in Ireland so the relevant authority is likely to be very particular. The location of the stove and the fact that I have it built in are to try meet the above criteria and to be honest once the vehicle is certified I am free to chop, change and tweak the layout and design to what works best. I know it would be best to get it right first time but at the moment I think that it is a reasonable compromise.
I am not a fan of gas stoves and if i had to chose one stove it would be the coleman petrol stove but its just a bit iffy to be using inside. I could have done with a second stove on many an occasion and decided that this was the best option for me because I can get petrol very easily and the refills for this gas stove are widely available not just in camping shops but other stores that open sundays too..plus the refills are fairly cheap.
I understand where you are coming from that an item should be multi functional and I should be minimizing gear but having the two stoves is my "luxury" at the moment, and until now I have been using a 30L rucksack for storage and sleeping under a special umbrella. Currently all i will be using the 110 for will be overnight fishing trips and the lake that I seem to be fishing most is only 20mins from the house.
I am using the bowl as a sink with a drain, plumbing, pump and mini shower head. I included a link for all of the bits in a previous post.
@wuntenn
The polystyrene and the thin foam used under wooden flooring is a good idea and I never thought of using it. Will look into it..
many thanks for your comments and suggestions please keep them coming! And if you have any questions don't be afraid to ask..
"A vehicle of Category M with living accommodation space which contains the
following equipment as a minimum:
(a) seats and table;
(b) sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(c) cooking facilities;
(d) storage facilities.
This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment. However, the
table may be designed to be easily removable."
I must meet these requirements especially as my 110 is probably the first of its kind to go through this legal conversion process here in Ireland so the relevant authority is likely to be very particular. The location of the stove and the fact that I have it built in are to try meet the above criteria and to be honest once the vehicle is certified I am free to chop, change and tweak the layout and design to what works best. I know it would be best to get it right first time but at the moment I think that it is a reasonable compromise.
I am not a fan of gas stoves and if i had to chose one stove it would be the coleman petrol stove but its just a bit iffy to be using inside. I could have done with a second stove on many an occasion and decided that this was the best option for me because I can get petrol very easily and the refills for this gas stove are widely available not just in camping shops but other stores that open sundays too..plus the refills are fairly cheap.
I understand where you are coming from that an item should be multi functional and I should be minimizing gear but having the two stoves is my "luxury" at the moment, and until now I have been using a 30L rucksack for storage and sleeping under a special umbrella. Currently all i will be using the 110 for will be overnight fishing trips and the lake that I seem to be fishing most is only 20mins from the house.
I am using the bowl as a sink with a drain, plumbing, pump and mini shower head. I included a link for all of the bits in a previous post.
@wuntenn
The polystyrene and the thin foam used under wooden flooring is a good idea and I never thought of using it. Will look into it..
many thanks for your comments and suggestions please keep them coming! And if you have any questions don't be afraid to ask..
tacr2man
Adventurer
I am using a coleman inside my 110 , but have put a aluminium sheet at just over full width of the stove from behind the coleman right up the side and curving over above the stove just inside the roof lining ( mine was a csw to start ). Following the correct start procedure , and controlling the initial burn greatly reduces the "flare" on start up. I also have sw roof vents ex 109 sw fitted which open below the fully floored roof rack , as the 110 (unlike the 109) didnt have a "safari roof " option . The warm damp air from breathing tends to go out thru there (I sumise) as even with two adults dont seem to suffer from condensation much . Burning gas inside generates huge volumes of water vapour. Its possible to find s/steel sink and drainers only 15" front to back as used in camper vans . HTSH
Found aero board in a local hardware store 1.2mx0.6m sheet in 12/18/25/60mm thickness. Starting at €1.50
Any chance you have a pic of your roof vent? Is it a rectangle flap sort of arrangement?
Was always puzzled about the safari roof's, at first I thought it lifted up, is it just a roof over the roof to stop the interior of the roof from heating up??
Any chance you have a pic of your roof vent? Is it a rectangle flap sort of arrangement?
Was always puzzled about the safari roof's, at first I thought it lifted up, is it just a roof over the roof to stop the interior of the roof from heating up??
Safari roofs are exactly as you describe - another roof on small 'stilts' above the main roof. Airflow reduces heat build up massively. Mind you simply painting your roof white (if it's a dark colour) can make a huge difference too.
tacr2man
Adventurer
The safari roof is incredibly efficient as a insulator even when not moving the air in the gap is a very good heat insulator , it was particularly important on the aluminium of the landrover . It was employed on quite a lot of vehicles used in very hot climates prior to aircon .
this will show what and where they are http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?14195-Making-roof-vents
this will show what and where they are http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?14195-Making-roof-vents
So I got a bit more done.
Lined the bulkhead top and rear.
Installed section on either side to divide cab and rear.
Added more shelving
Had to shorten bed/bench to accommodate ply on bulkhead.
Added latch to bed support to keep it in place.
Broke the storage box lid that goes between arches at bulkhead so had to strengthen.
Picked up New sink (different mixing bowl)
To do:
Insulation
Build the
Sliding doors on storage
Install sink
Install pump and shower head.
Fuse board
Led lighting
Cover the seat foam.
Any recommendations for material for covering the foam. I haven't gotten round to looking. Was thinking of something waterproof rather than just a normal cloth type affair.
The foam is 400mm x 75mm x 1800mm and there is 3 of them.
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Lined the bulkhead top and rear.
Installed section on either side to divide cab and rear.
Added more shelving
Had to shorten bed/bench to accommodate ply on bulkhead.
Added latch to bed support to keep it in place.
Broke the storage box lid that goes between arches at bulkhead so had to strengthen.
Picked up New sink (different mixing bowl)
To do:
Insulation
Build the
Sliding doors on storage
Install sink
Install pump and shower head.
Fuse board
Led lighting
Cover the seat foam.
Any recommendations for material for covering the foam. I haven't gotten round to looking. Was thinking of something waterproof rather than just a normal cloth type affair.
The foam is 400mm x 75mm x 1800mm and there is 3 of them.
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