1120 AF Build in Norway

[Geo.Lander]

I have spent the past 3 days talking with insurance companies! After a hell of a lot of "we can't help you" I finally found a special insurance with my own provider. Big thanks to Vegard_S for all the tips negotiating all the legislation here in Norway!

Now, I wonder, I am thinking about cold starting and installing a dedicated Webasto for the engine and cab (ive used these systems on my Land rovers for years). But, to my surprise I noticed something in one of the pictures, does my truck have glow plugs? Yes, i have never seen this truck, and no I have not asked many questions because you simply get no answer from the Firedept staff. Currently they are preparing the truck for delivery next month sometime, but they said a whole host of upgrades have been done over the years, including a new pump (fuel?), very good maintenance with records, etc

 

[VerMonsterRV]

Not sure if our trucks had an option for glow plugs (not ones like we had on our marine diesels anyway). They did have an option for some sort of either gas cold start, ours did not have this. Have you purchased/downloaded the EPC/WIS off Ebay? When you put in the truck's VIN it will give you all the original build information, plus all part numbers, technical specifications and procedures. Just search for "Mercedes EPC" on Ebay. Get one that can be downloaded and installed. Usually less than $20 and is the best money I have spent on the truck.

We are in process right now plumbing up our Webasto Thermo Top C coolant heater to our engine coolant circuit. The plan is to use the same furnace to heat the habitat and the engine block if needed. There are a few reasons for this, reduced complexity, space requirements and weight. So this is how I wan the system to work when completed.
1. Heat habitat including domestic hot water (this is completed)
2. Pre-heat the engine (almost finished, need to run hose and tap into the engine)
3. Use engine coolant heat to heat the habitat (this needs a bit more thinking)

We use a water to water plate heat exchanger to keep the habitat coolant separate from the engine coolant.

We have also installed a washing machine, actually it is running right now. A nice luxury but not really necessary, we sailed around the world without one. For an inverter I would lean to something in the 2000 to 3000 watt range. Larger units will run cooler on light loads than smaller ones maxed out. For battery capacity, we have 400ah at 12v, to do it over I would go larger. Gives more days if charging is not available, we do have 1,000 watts of solar but cloudy days... If your plans include shipping to North America (and I would recommend it), I would think about 110v power also. There are battery chargers available that will accept either 110v or 220v (Sterling sells one which we used on the boat). Then I would work on everything being DC, as much as possible. Also think about a B2B battery charger so you can charge your house bank from your alternator, even with different battery chemistries.

 

[Joe917]

I agree with Jon on all but the plate exchanger (and convenience of a washing machine) . There is no need to separate the habitat and engine coolant. Keeping the coolant loops connected simplifies the system eliminating the need for an auxiliary electric pump on the engine for pre-heating. It also avoids an extra pump on the house side, and it eliminates inefficiencies at the plate exchanger.
Our truck has run with connected coolant loops for 27 years, it is not an issue. No glow plugs, ThermoTopC.
.

 

[Geo.Lander]

I agree with Jon on all but the plate exchanger (and convenience of a washing machine) . There is no need to separate the habitat and engine coolant. Keeping the coolant loops connected simplifies the system eliminating the need for an auxiliary electric pump on the engine for pre-heating. It also avoids an extra pump on the house side, and it eliminates inefficiencies at the plate exchanger.
Our truck has run with connected coolant loops for 27 years, it is not an issue. No glow plugs, ThermoTopC.
.

I have decided to have 2 separate units (both webasto), having talked to the guys here they have recommended to use the dedicated truck and cab heater and separate blower for the habit cabin and water heater (all running diesel). This reduces the need for plumbing between the 2 and adds redundancy, burn economy as the units for RVs and trucks are engineered in different ways (apparently). Also, i found out today to need to be able to disconnect the habitat from the truck in theory, so the habitat needs to be more or less self contained on the frame. This means I am also unsure if I will be allowed to have a hatch from the truck to the habitat module

 

[Geo.Lander]

Not sure if our trucks had an option for glow plugs (not ones like we had on our marine diesels anyway). They did have an option for some sort of either gas cold start, ours did not have this. Have you purchased/downloaded the EPC/WIS off Ebay? When you put in the truck's VIN it will give you all the original build information, plus all part numbers, technical specifications and procedures. Just search for "Mercedes EPC" on Ebay. Get one that can be downloaded and installed. Usually less than $20 and is the best money I have spent on the truck.

We are in process right now plumbing up our Webasto Thermo Top C coolant heater to our engine coolant circuit. The plan is to use the same furnace to heat the habitat and the engine block if needed. There are a few reasons for this, reduced complexity, space requirements and weight. So this is how I wan the system to work when completed.
1. Heat habitat including domestic hot water (this is completed)
2. Pre-heat the engine (almost finished, need to run hose and tap into the engine)
3. Use engine coolant heat to heat the habitat (this needs a bit more thinking)

We use a water to water plate heat exchanger to keep the habitat coolant separate from the engine coolant.

We have also installed a washing machine, actually it is running right now. A nice luxury but not really necessary, we sailed around the world without one. For an inverter I would lean to something in the 2000 to 3000 watt range. Larger units will run cooler on light loads than smaller ones maxed out. For battery capacity, we have 400ah at 12v, to do it over I would go larger. Gives more days if charging is not available, we do have 1,000 watts of solar but cloudy days... If your plans include shipping to North America (and I would recommend it), I would think about 110v power also. There are battery chargers available that will accept either 110v or 220v (Sterling sells one which we used on the boat). Then I would work on everything being DC, as much as possible. Also think about a B2B battery charger so you can charge your house bank from your alternator, even with different battery chemistries.

I just saw the coiled loops next the the red light in the picture above, those are the symbols for glow plugs at least in my Land Rover. It might be these trucks were spec'd for the Norwegian climate, the cars generally here have options here as standard you have a hard time finding further south. I really can't wait to pick the brains of the guys when we go and pickup our truck! I am hoping we can get some pictures and history of her time in service too.

Your heating system seems very efficient. I went into my plans a little above replying to Joe917. I am not 100% certain my ideas for separate dedicated heaters is the best idea, but the dedicated engine units im used to are certainly reliable, and i feel heating the engine when we are parked for days on end on ski trips might be efficient at best, dangerous at worst. But I suppose there is some cut off circuit built into your plans?

Thanks for the tip, i was going to ask how everyone is looking into VIN numbers! My Google searches came up with less than zero.

 

[Joe917]

I have decided to have 2 separate units (both webasto), having talked to the guys here they have recommended to use the dedicated truck and cab heater and separate blower for the habit cabin and water heater (all running diesel). This reduces the need for plumbing between the 2 and adds redundancy, burn economy as the units for RVs and trucks are engineered in different ways (apparently). Also, i found out today to need to be able to disconnect the habitat from the truck in theory, so the habitat needs to be more or less self contained on the frame. This means I am also unsure if I will be allowed to have a hatch from the truck to the habitat module

So this means you can't heat the habitat from the engine heat?

 

[Joe917]

You only have to heat the engine for stating. Even at -20C half an hour of preheat from the Webasto will get you started.

 

[Geo.Lander]

So this means you can't heat the habitat from the engine heat?

indeed

 

[Joe917]

indeed

Having two Webasto units heating two circuits is not redundancy. The ability to heat the habitat from the Webasto or engine is. I would suggest whoever is advising two units (and the added expense) is , not to put too fine a point in it, wrong.

 

[Joe917]

If you need the habitat to be de-mountable you can make the coolant connections with hydraulic quick couplers. This is how some heavy equipment is pre heated in the bush. A truck with a hot running engine connects to the cold machinery and circulates the hot coolant.

 

[nathane]

I have just agreed an installation schema of a thermo top evo 50 into my mog build with one of the (super helpful) technicians from webasto UK and Atkinson Vos who are doing the engine plumbing for me.

This will:

• Heat hot water from engine or webasto
• Heat underfloor and radiator circuit from engine or webasto
• Pre heat engine from webasto

To do this we are using a dual coil 40l calorifier plus plate heat exchanger. Primary coil is engine/webasto circuit, secondary coil is underfloor heating. The calorifier tank serves as a hot water reservoir for washing but also a storage heat exchanger for the central heating. The plate heat exchanger links engine/webasto and underfloor heating circuits for a "boost" setting.

I also don't believe you need 2 units to do what you want, but it surprised me that the webasto folks had never seen this use case before and we needed to develop it fresh. I'm happy to share the schematic if you want to pm me.

 

[nathane]

If you need the habitat to be de-mountable you can make the coolant connections with hydraulic quick couplers. This is how some heavy equipment is pre heated in the bush. A truck with a hot running engine connects to the cold machinery and circulates the hot coolant.

This is also our approach, dry break disconnects on hot water and underfloor loops. Super easy and clean. Not cheap, I think I used Hansen units which are probably overkill, but nicely engineered!

 

[Geo.Lander]

So this means you can't heat the habitat from the engine heat?

Correct, they will be completely separate

 

[Geo.Lander]

I have just agreed an installation schema of a thermo top evo 50 into my mog build with one of the (super helpful) technicians from webasto UK and Atkinson Vos who are doing the engine plumbing for me.

This will:

• Heat hot water from engine or webasto
• Heat underfloor and radiator circuit from engine or webasto
• Pre heat engine from webasto

To do this we are using a dual coil 40l calorifier plus plate heat exchanger. Primary coil is engine/webasto circuit, secondary coil is underfloor heating. The calorifier tank serves as a hot water reservoir for washing but also a storage heat exchanger for the central heating. The plate heat exchanger links engine/webasto and underfloor heating circuits for a "boost" setting.

I also don't believe you need 2 units to do what you want, but it surprised me that the webasto folks had never seen this use case before and we needed to develop it fresh. I'm happy to share the schematic if you want to pm me.

Sounds like a very sound design! I would really appreciate looking over those designs thank you!

The underfloor heating sounds amazing, unfortunately I won't have the space to install one of these and still keep adequate headroom (I'm 193cm). At with the habitats I'm looking at now.

Of course heating water from the engine coolant sounds like a win win. But in my mind currently it just sounds like too much plumping and added complexity. Whereas separate systems keeps things decoupled with added redundancy (2 furnaces). Diesel engines struggle to maintain heat as is while driving over mountain passes here..

 

[Geo.Lander]

Having two Webasto units heating two circuits is not redundancy. The ability to heat the habitat from the Webasto or engine is. I would suggest whoever is advising two units (and the added expense) is , not to put too fine a point in it, wrong.

Point taken, I'm going to look over my current plans, the good news is I have time the bad news is I have time before the real build starts