redthies
Renaissance Redneck
My last Ducati with the open dry clutch and Termignoni exhaust was amazing to listen to. I wish I had one now to just rev up and giggle!
12v Cummins vs. 7.3 Power Stroke?
- Thread starter Magilla82
- Start date
My last Ducati with the open dry clutch and Termignoni exhaust was amazing to listen to. I wish I had one now to just rev up and giggle!
redthies
Renaissance Redneck
I'm not really sure if buying a 24v "CumminGs dOOLey" is "moving up! :hehe:
norcal*PWRstroke
Adventurer
I would go for the 96-97 F350 7.3l with the zf 5speed, it is a great high mileage reliable transmission with no widespread common problems and I have never heard of problems with the stock zf5 clutch, while the nv4500 has the fifth gear nut issues which my neighbor experienced in his 12v. Both the cummins and ford auto transmissions will have to be built HD at some point. The fuel leak issues that can pop up on the 7.3l are easy and cheap to fix. Killer dowel pin can be more costly to repair especially if not caught in time. the 12v seems to be big time oil leakers in higher mileage. while the 7.3l has less oil leaks with the most common being the turbo pedestal o-rings & vavle cover gaskets both very easy to fix in a driveway.
I think labor wise the 7.3l fixes can be done quicker by the driveway mechanic, some of the 12v repairs with oil leaks for example can be very labor intensive projects, not necessarily more complicated than the 7.3l just more labor intensive.
I like the interior of the fords better they seem better made less rattles and less cheap plastic feeling. The seats in the dodge are more comfortable but the dodge is not as big in the interior as the ford. I am 6'6" and the ford is way more roomy even in the backseats.
The only good thing about a dodge is the cummins everything else around the engine is cheap dodge craftsmanship.
one more thing the f250's have a ttb dana50 which can be expensive to repair, they are fine with stock tires but start to fall apart with bigger tires many convert to a solid axle dana60 form the f350's (Its a bolt on swap too which is nice) precision metal fab has a very nice hanger kit for a cleaner conversion that allows you to run 99-03 superduty springs
f350's come with the solid axle dana60 already
dodge 2500/3500 both have solid axle dana 60's
I think labor wise the 7.3l fixes can be done quicker by the driveway mechanic, some of the 12v repairs with oil leaks for example can be very labor intensive projects, not necessarily more complicated than the 7.3l just more labor intensive.
I like the interior of the fords better they seem better made less rattles and less cheap plastic feeling. The seats in the dodge are more comfortable but the dodge is not as big in the interior as the ford. I am 6'6" and the ford is way more roomy even in the backseats.
The only good thing about a dodge is the cummins everything else around the engine is cheap dodge craftsmanship.
one more thing the f250's have a ttb dana50 which can be expensive to repair, they are fine with stock tires but start to fall apart with bigger tires many convert to a solid axle dana60 form the f350's (Its a bolt on swap too which is nice) precision metal fab has a very nice hanger kit for a cleaner conversion that allows you to run 99-03 superduty springs
f350's come with the solid axle dana60 already
dodge 2500/3500 both have solid axle dana 60's
Magilla82
Observer
Thank you all for your thoughts/inputs. Ideally i want a 12v dually, im sure not many flat billed hat guys want a dually as its not as "cool" as a SRW truck to lift and make it all fancy... I'm 31 and want/need practicality over flashy. Right now an extended cab Dodge would be great for us, but we are wanting more children. I'm 6'2, wife is 5'4, im just not sure at what age our kids would "outgrow" the extended cab, if at all? The only reason i am even considering the Ford is purely for the rear seat, and I look at is as i would be "settling" for a truck, and not getting what i want.
I'm really not sure about a 24v either with their lift pumps/injection pump problems and i know enough to stay away from the 53 blocks... But this is why im asking now, as i have all winter to research and find what suits our needs.
I'm really not sure about a 24v either with their lift pumps/injection pump problems and i know enough to stay away from the 53 blocks... But this is why im asking now, as i have all winter to research and find what suits our needs.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
'99+ Crew Cab Ford is all I recommend when it comes to kids. With that fullsize back seat, it's as useful as our Excusions and Burb's ever were. Extended cabs are great, I love mine. But for 4+ people, they stink. When I was little I had to ride in one, and it wasn't as much fun as a CC.
locrwln
Expedition Leader
Merely meant year wise.
You have heard though that there are liars, damn liars and cummins owner's fuel mileage claims...:coffeedrink:
I mean, they are the only motor that makes fuel while towing 20k at 80 mph.
My PSD averaged 19-19.5 empty at 70 mph. 18-18.5 empty at 80 mph and around 12 mpg with the camper on at 70 mph. No power added, just the severe duty air box and a free flowing exhaust. Not really going to get much better than that with anything, the aerodynamics kill the mileage more than the weight. Driving around Yellowstone with the camper, we averaged 17.5 mpg, of course the speed limit is 45 mph...
Jack
Sentinelist
Adventurer
Why not the GM 6.5?
redthies
Renaissance Redneck
Because you got the only good one:elkgrin:
Kids will fit just fine in the quad cab, unless you want them back there in their 20s. If you find a 24v with a FASS or similar aftermarket lift pump, fresh VP44 etc, they make great power. I would think about avoiding the 6 spd manual however as rumour has it they are hard to find parts for, and costly to rebuild. I drove my Dodge again today after being in my F250 for the past 3-4 weeks, and I sure love it. Way more comfortable. If your only reason for looking at Fords is a bit more room in the back, take into consideration the age of your kid(s) now. Are they 2? 5? 10? They will be fine in the back of a quad cab until at least 15. So you probably have a few years to just enjoy driving what you want before the kids out grow it.
Magilla82
Observer
Bugdet is moderate, I guess that's how I could explain it? I don't want payments... So that puts my spending cap around 10k... But don't want to buy cheap and have to basically rebuild a truck. I am glad I'm not in a crunch and needing it now... I am not interested in a 99+ Super Duty as I would prefer an 05-07 with the coils up front like my last diesel, and they only come with the 6.0 which I'd trust a fart before I trust that motor again. So that would mean an expensive motor swap...
So, my thoughts (for today, as they will probably change by Thanksgiving lol) are to search for the Holy Grail and enjoy it as much as possible until my family outgrows it (which will take quite some time as I didn't exactly mention that I don't have full custody of my daughter). Unless of course I stumble upon an OBS deal that is too good to pass up (kinda how I ended up with my current rig). And by the time my family outgrows the Dodge, I can keep it as Dads truck, and the wife and I will look into a new new truck.
And I am not interested in the GM 6.5 as I want a solid front axle. IFS ride is nice... But I want a truck truck. The GMs just don't give me the warm fuzzies on beig a true Heavy Duty rig... Not a big fan of the 6.5 TD either, but to be honest I don't know anyone personally that has ever had one... The 5.9 and 7.3 are both legendary and easy to find just about anywhere.
Once again, thank you for the input... And I'm glad I'm not trying to decide anytime soon... All of this is making my head spin lol.
So, my thoughts (for today, as they will probably change by Thanksgiving lol) are to search for the Holy Grail and enjoy it as much as possible until my family outgrows it (which will take quite some time as I didn't exactly mention that I don't have full custody of my daughter). Unless of course I stumble upon an OBS deal that is too good to pass up (kinda how I ended up with my current rig). And by the time my family outgrows the Dodge, I can keep it as Dads truck, and the wife and I will look into a new new truck.
And I am not interested in the GM 6.5 as I want a solid front axle. IFS ride is nice... But I want a truck truck. The GMs just don't give me the warm fuzzies on beig a true Heavy Duty rig... Not a big fan of the 6.5 TD either, but to be honest I don't know anyone personally that has ever had one... The 5.9 and 7.3 are both legendary and easy to find just about anywhere.
Once again, thank you for the input... And I'm glad I'm not trying to decide anytime soon... All of this is making my head spin lol.
Mundo4x4Casa
West slope, N. Ser. Nev.
A lot of 'right-on' opinions here. You can't buy experience. My only experience is with an 2001.5 2nd gen. Dodge .75t. It's the extra cab version with suicide doors and we have gone a trip of 4 hrs. with 6 full sized folks. As the driver, I had a great time, but for the 3 in the back seat, not so much. If you are not going to use it much, a gasser might be a good solution. You must drive forever with a diesel to get back your investment at purchase of 4-6K $ just for the engine.
For years and years all my Ford and GM friends have said my VP44 will go south; my lift pump will fail; and the truck will basically fall apart. Well, wonder of wonders, it's still in one piece after nearly 150K miles. Just lucky i guess. I still like it. Why? The 2-gen HO is a good motor and I moved the lift pump off the engine and down on the frame in front of the fuel tank. It becomes a pusher, not a sucker. Less heat/less vibration. Replaced with a much more robust pump. Have two spares under the driver's seat. The biggest cause of failure of the VP44 is moments after the lift pump has given up the ghost, not before. It must have fuel. Have a fuel pressure IDIOT light that shines brightly when the fuel pressure gets below 5 pounds. No wire/no engine upgrades. Oh, i did fiddle with the waste gate to get the turbo to kick in sooner. But that only makes the engine run hotter. The NV5600 manual trans. The very last of the cast iron box trannies. 360 pounds, wet. No shaft or bearing deflection here. The box is rated at 26000 pounds max. There is no big jump between gears like on an NV4500. I have found no hill or situation where I could not select a 'just-right' gear, whether running empty or at the CGVW of the rig. 19,300 pounds. It shifts very smoothly with synchros all around. (rumor has it) that parts are hard to come by? Maybe, but so far so good, but i do have a source, if need be. Original trans and clutch. NV241HD t-case. What's the big deal? It's the 'snow plow prep' T-case. It is strength rated the same as the non-HD, but you have to look farther to see why. What is the biggest cause of T-case failure while plowing? Shock loading. The HD has a much wider chain to absorb all that guff, but has the same rear output bearing as the non-HD. So, the weak link is the output bearing which doesn't take it in the shorts like the chain does. This is the year they put the first 35 spline Dana 80's in 3/4 t. Dodge/Cummins/HO's (except for the V-10's). I have never gotten the reported 20 mpg that the 12V's get, but I have been in the 19 mpg range a lot (empty). With my little Lance hard side (10,200 pounds, wet) i get between 11 and 15 mpg on the road going no faster than 64 mph with no wind and no grade with 3.55 gears. 11 is when i'm in the hills against the wind. 15 is no wind no grade. Wind resistance with the hard side on makes the most difference in mpg. Basically, nothing has failed on my Dodge besides the usual replaceable suspects. (batteries/tires) One interior light doesn't work. Original unit bearings in front. (how could that happen?) I did add the steering brace between the frame members clamped to the steering box. It made a difference, but not all the difference. 3 inch lift pucks on the front coils.
My brother has a 1999 Ford F250 P-stroke and he likes it a lot. With an OUTFITTER! pop up camper and towing his rock crawler in a big enclosed trailer around it does very well. He does have a wire and went thru a couple 6th gear jobs before he lightened up when in 6th and has had no trouble lately. He is one of the very few that have had woes with the aluminum German 6 speed gear box. It could be because he exceeded the CGVW rating time after time running over 20,000 pounds to get to the trailhead. My bro is 'JR' on the Pirate page.
If i had a choice and money were no object, i would still gravitate toward the simplest, most over-built drivetrain i could find that would run on Mexican diesel fuel. That narrows the search down to prior to 2007, i believe.
Just a little more first hand experience for your hard drive. Good luck in your search.
regards, as always, jefe
For years and years all my Ford and GM friends have said my VP44 will go south; my lift pump will fail; and the truck will basically fall apart. Well, wonder of wonders, it's still in one piece after nearly 150K miles. Just lucky i guess. I still like it. Why? The 2-gen HO is a good motor and I moved the lift pump off the engine and down on the frame in front of the fuel tank. It becomes a pusher, not a sucker. Less heat/less vibration. Replaced with a much more robust pump. Have two spares under the driver's seat. The biggest cause of failure of the VP44 is moments after the lift pump has given up the ghost, not before. It must have fuel. Have a fuel pressure IDIOT light that shines brightly when the fuel pressure gets below 5 pounds. No wire/no engine upgrades. Oh, i did fiddle with the waste gate to get the turbo to kick in sooner. But that only makes the engine run hotter. The NV5600 manual trans. The very last of the cast iron box trannies. 360 pounds, wet. No shaft or bearing deflection here. The box is rated at 26000 pounds max. There is no big jump between gears like on an NV4500. I have found no hill or situation where I could not select a 'just-right' gear, whether running empty or at the CGVW of the rig. 19,300 pounds. It shifts very smoothly with synchros all around. (rumor has it) that parts are hard to come by? Maybe, but so far so good, but i do have a source, if need be. Original trans and clutch. NV241HD t-case. What's the big deal? It's the 'snow plow prep' T-case. It is strength rated the same as the non-HD, but you have to look farther to see why. What is the biggest cause of T-case failure while plowing? Shock loading. The HD has a much wider chain to absorb all that guff, but has the same rear output bearing as the non-HD. So, the weak link is the output bearing which doesn't take it in the shorts like the chain does. This is the year they put the first 35 spline Dana 80's in 3/4 t. Dodge/Cummins/HO's (except for the V-10's). I have never gotten the reported 20 mpg that the 12V's get, but I have been in the 19 mpg range a lot (empty). With my little Lance hard side (10,200 pounds, wet) i get between 11 and 15 mpg on the road going no faster than 64 mph with no wind and no grade with 3.55 gears. 11 is when i'm in the hills against the wind. 15 is no wind no grade. Wind resistance with the hard side on makes the most difference in mpg. Basically, nothing has failed on my Dodge besides the usual replaceable suspects. (batteries/tires) One interior light doesn't work. Original unit bearings in front. (how could that happen?) I did add the steering brace between the frame members clamped to the steering box. It made a difference, but not all the difference. 3 inch lift pucks on the front coils.
My brother has a 1999 Ford F250 P-stroke and he likes it a lot. With an OUTFITTER! pop up camper and towing his rock crawler in a big enclosed trailer around it does very well. He does have a wire and went thru a couple 6th gear jobs before he lightened up when in 6th and has had no trouble lately. He is one of the very few that have had woes with the aluminum German 6 speed gear box. It could be because he exceeded the CGVW rating time after time running over 20,000 pounds to get to the trailhead. My bro is 'JR' on the Pirate page.
If i had a choice and money were no object, i would still gravitate toward the simplest, most over-built drivetrain i could find that would run on Mexican diesel fuel. That narrows the search down to prior to 2007, i believe.
Just a little more first hand experience for your hard drive. Good luck in your search.
regards, as always, jefe
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