1998.5 Dodge Ram CTD - Sally

[frojoe]

And this is the factory "vent filter" breather I wanted to continue using.

I noticed some of the stainless wool inside was packing out and moving away from the inlet holes, and I could see directly thru to the outlet barb.. so I pulled it close and wired it to keep it in place...

And this is the "thread" that's stamped into the factory steel timing cover...

I had my machinist co-worker fire up the CNC, and cut a steel plate to match the 4-bolt pattern on the Keating Machine cover, that I'd weld the stamped steel thread to...

These welds are not pretty, but they'll work. I buffed and then brake cleaned the stamped steel, but it was still spitting and popping, and that on top of trying to weld 16ga sheet to 1/4" plate made for a very "delicate" process required a lot of patience.. but it'll work, no doubt...

For now, the oil return hose to the hose-barb'd lower cover plate is just plugged, until I install the air-oil separator...

 

[57Cessna172]

Thanks for the information. When I changed my pump a couple of years ago, the insulation blanket on the tappet cover fell off in pieces. Truck was noticeably louder without out it. I've been meaning to buy one and install. Just haven't done it yet. (cause of all the crap you gotta take off for access) Searching the web has found this. Think it could be kinda pricy. Seems to get some good reviews on several forums.

Advanced Thermal Products, Inc. is a manufacturer of High-Temperature Insulation Systems for the Diesel, Power Generation, Aerospace, and Race Industries. – Advanced Thermal Products

atpwrap.com

When I originally installed the 1" foam underhood insulation from DEI, it did noticeably quiet the truck down when standing <10ft from the hood, either in front or on either side, at head height. When you crouch down near either front wheel well, it's still loud as hell at idle... there's lots of noise 'leaking' out of the gaps between the inner fenders and the frame, and from under the frame around the oil pan.

The underhood insulation also had an affect (to a lesser degree) in the cab.. but only for noise when the windows were down.. with windows up it sounded about the same noise level. I think for how quick it was to install, and that it's held up for ~5 years.. it was easily worth whatever small change it had.

For the side valve/tappet cover... I think that had a lesser effect... since the engine sounds entirely different with the P-pump, I can't tell if the reduced underhood noise is from the tamer fixed timing (~13.5 degrees), the new injectors (which also open at a lower pressure, so less violent potentially), or the tappet cover insulation. Honestly the truck isn't too much quieter when you're standing next to it at idle, but when the hood is open, the 'sharpness' of the 24V/VP44 knock sound has been softened, and I can poke my head all around the engine when its idling without feeling like I'm going to go deaf!

I wouldn't specifically go out of my way to remove components just to have access to the tappet cover, in order to add insulation to it... but I think that since it was apart anyways, adding insulation to it did likely have some small affect on noise reduction.

 

[frojoe]

Thanks for the information. When I changed my pump a couple of years ago, the insulation blanket on the tappet cover fell off in pieces. Truck was noticeably louder without out it. I've been meaning to buy one and install. Just haven't done it yet. (cause of all the crap you gotta take off for access) Searching the web has found this. Think it could be kinda pricy. Seems to get some good reviews on several forums.

Advanced Thermal Products, Inc. is a manufacturer of High-Temperature Insulation Systems for the Diesel, Power Generation, Aerospace, and Race Industries. – Advanced Thermal Products

atpwrap.com

Ahhhh I've heard of and read up on that brand a handful of years ago... but for some reason was under the impression they went under or at the least were no longer seller the 2nd gen 24V quietening bits. I maybe get a quote from them for the oil pan blanket.. it is LOUD under the truck if it's running.

 

[57Cessna172]

I sent them an inquiry today. I'll let you know when they reply. I wear ear plugs whenever the engines running. Been around jet engines all my life. And this thing is as loud as those. (at idle) take-off power is a different story

Ahhhh I've heard of and read up on that brand a handful of years ago... but for some reason was under the impression they went under or at the least were no longer seller the 2nd gen 24V quietening bits. I maybe get a quote from them for the oil pan blanket.. it is LOUD under the truck if it's running.

 

[frojoe]

I sent them an inquiry today. I'll let you know when they reply. I wear ear plugs whenever the engines running. Been around jet engines all my life. And this thing is as loud as those. (at idle) take-off power is a different story

That'd be super helpful, thanks! ?

 

[57Cessna172]

Joe,

Very quick reply from ATP. With the full kit installed, DB drop of 30DB's in the cab. going from 95db to 65db at highway speeds. That's sounding good to me.


From the interweb -

Is 95db loud?
Common Sources of Noise and Decibel Levels

Sound is measured in decibels (dB). A whisper is about 30 dB, normal conversation is about 60 dB, and a motorcycle engine running is about 95 dB. ... Loud noise above 120 dB can cause immediate harm to your ears.

That'd be super helpful, thanks! ?

 

[frojoe]

After being reminded of ATP (Advanced Thermal Products) by 57Cessna172, I ended up pulling the trigger on their "quiet blankets".. opting for the oil pan blanket, the valvecover blanket, and the turbo+manifold blanket. The initial impression on these things, is that they're incredible quality.

I really couldn't find any good information on these blankets online before ordering, other than the occasional short forum reply here or there saying "I bought them, they're great. It's quiet now." which honestly isn't terribly objective, or helpful. But despite the vacuum of online info, the potential for them to even work half decently, and lower exterior noise (my only motivator)... I just had to try them out.

Right off the bat.. these suckers are substantial. They're about 1/2" to 3/4" thick, very firm/dense, and pretty heavy. I imagine there's some combo of dense vinyl or rubber inside them, maybe even a thin layer of lead, wrapped up by high-temperature fiberglass insulation material and high-quality stitching. They're simply beefy.. so they seemed like a guarantee to at least reduce noise by a bit.

 

[frojoe]

I figured the biggest and most immediate improvement to external noise around the front fenders, would be the oil pain blanket. It was also the trickiest to install, so I figured I would start there. I had a hell of a time attempting to sneak the front of the blanket between the oil pan and the frame cross-member, so I ended up lifting the engine a bit using the factory Dodge bottle jack between the top of the Dana 60 center section and the bottom of the driver side motor mount, and then a floorjack lifting the passenger side up via the A/C compressor bracket. It worked well enough to take up whatever slop is in my factory rubber motor mounts, and I was able to easily slip the blanket all the way forward, past the cross-member-to-oil-pan pinch point.

The installation idea is to just wire tie it to "whatever nearby hardware you want", so I went for it. Here's a list of where I attached the hooks to, with pictures following:

Driver side, rear hook --> crank sensor hold-down bracket
Driver side, middle hook --> driver side motor mount (via 1/8" stainless filler rod wrapping around motor mount)
Driver side, front hook --> wiring loom stud on the front of the block, no longer used for wiring after the P-pump swap
Passenger side, rear & middle hooks --> passenger side motor mount
Passenger side, front hook --> A/C compressor bracket

 

[frojoe]

The initial impression from just the oil pan cover are like this:

In the cab, at idle.. it sounds slightly quieter.. however my truck started with a pretty quiet interior sound level as the baseline, since I have no exhaust leaks, a factory air filter and intake box, and massive muffler, as well as conservative timing on the [inherently less-loud] P-pump.

In the cab, while driving.. it sounds a little bit more muted, like the peaks of the diesel knocks have been clipped in the 1500-2000rpm range, when the engine sound is transitioning from the classic 24V noisy knock, into a smoother revving tone.

Exterior to the truck, at idle (crouching to ground level, and at head level near the front wheelwells... it is WAY quieter. It's hard to objectively comment on how much quieter, since my decibel readings were only using an app on my phone (so not the most scientifically accurate). The classically loud "big hammer hitting hardwood bench" 24V knock-knock-knock was completely damped down to a subtle rumble, kind of like a Duramax with an aftermarket exhaust.

Being intimately familiar with the stock VP44 24V sound level, then the P7100 sound level, and now this level with just the oil pan cover... it sounds like all the same noises are now just happening behind a significantly-insulated wall in an enclosure, like the door has been closed on a genset room and there is something humming away.

I did want to record differences throughout the stages of insulation, mostly for my curiosity, but also to possibly help out others.

The app I used on my Android was this one, called 'Sound Meter', and for instantaneous sound level readings, it rounds to the nearest decibel, which is still a bit too coarse to be completely helpful. The app is good for telling you if something is ~80dB or ~110dB, but it was a bit tricky to get more finite readings for noticing a level of 81dB vs 79db. But I think as I install more of the quiet blankets, the readings should continue dropping by multiple dB's...

And here is the list I'll keep filling out as I install more of the blankets. I think the location descriptions below should be self-explanatory enough; they are at either side front fender, and in front of the grill, at various distances from the truck (1ft, 6ft, 10ft), for chest level as well as at ground level (assuming that's a more direct path for sound from the engine bay, and thus louder).

The reason it's tricky to have meaningful comparisons while using just a free phone app and whatever-quality phone mic, is that a difference of 1-2dB can be equal to a 20-40% change in perceived sound level... so if the phone app's reading is bouncing between one dB reading or rounding up/down to the next closest number.. that can calculate out as a sound level difference that is more or less than would seem likely just by ear. Oh well, at least it's some kind of info...

 

[frojoe]

Another side project that I'm collecting parts for, is a full new front axle to build that I'll just swap into the truck when ready.

As I mentioned before, I helped overhaul my friend's '96 2500 gasser, and really liked the quality and functionality of the CAD-delete 35 spline Yukon axles, and Yukon air Ziplocker that we put in it.

Inspecting my truck, I'm in need of a driver side unit bearing, and if I'm going to go thru that effort, I would replace both sides, and keep the current passenger side unit bearing as a spare.

Same for the brakes... my rotors could probably get replaced, but both front calipers are quite sticky and underperforming horrendously... thus my front stopping power has suffered immensely.

Tack onto that the undesirable design of these earlier 1994-1999 Dana 60's, where the rotor is pressed onto the backside of the unit bearing by the 8 wheel studs.... that means in order to swap a unit bearing on trail or during a roadtrip, you either have to have the fully pre-assembled rotor+bearing, or you have to find a way to unpress and then repress the studs into the unit bearing to be swapped on.

After some reading, I found that the 2000-2002 front Dana 60's went to the newer slip-on rotor design, and have a revised knuckle to handle a bigger 2-piston 2nd gen caliper, or even fit bigger 3rd gen brakes.

If I plan to gut the housing to replace axles and the carrier, and redo 2X unit bearings, AND then the entire front brakes... I'd love to build it on to a better housing.. a 2000-2002 housing, to allow the upgrade to vastly better brakes, and easier unit bearing replacement. So I picked up a 2000 Dana 60 for $150, with the plan to gut it down to the housing and knuckles, and stuff it with goodies.

The list for the new axle build will be:

- Yukon CAD-delete 35 spline 4340 chromoly axle shafts
- Yukon 1541H stub axles
- Spicer 1480 (I think?) axle u-joints
- Yukon 1350 pinion yoke (stronger u-bolt retention style)
- Yukon Ziplocker, 35 spline, 4.10-down (keeping my 3.54 gear ratio)
- EMF ball joints (apparently even better than Dynatrac)
- SKF unit bearings (keeping original passenger as spare)
- upgrade to 2003-2005 3rd gen caliper and rotor
- Yukon hardcore iron front cover

I also have on order direct-replacement Yukon 35 spline 4340 axles for my rear Dana 80, and I'll keep the current Dana 35 spline axles as spares.

 

[57Cessna172]

Lovin the updates. You got the blankets in a quite timely manner! Quality looks outstanding. I've been around commercial aircraft for the last 30 years. Looks very comparable to blankets I've seen on planes. Time to place my order. New frame to door seals, window seals and sound deadening mat have helped a bunch on mine. And if your door seals are torn (from your feet draggin over them) take them off and go drive the truck. You'll waste no time on getting new seals

New axle is looking good as well. Excuse the dumb question. How will you engage 4wd? maual locking hubs? I'd like to do the spyntec conversion on mine someday.

 

[frojoe]

Lovin the updates. You got the blankets in a quite timely manner! Quality looks outstanding. I've been around commercial aircraft for the last 30 years. Looks very comparable to blankets I've seen on planes. Time to place my order. New frame to door seals, window seals and sound deadening mat have helped a bunch on mine. And if your door seals are torn (from your feet draggin over them) take them off and go drive the truck. You'll waste no time on getting new seals

New axle is looking good as well. Excuse the dumb question. How will you engage 4wd? maual locking hubs? I'd like to do the spyntec conversion on mine someday.

Yeah the ATP Wraps product quality lines up with what I expected for the price, and is most excellently finished... I have no complaints thusfar. It was even nice to see each piece get a riveted aluminum data tag with a serial number, and my name etched on it. The company clearly delivers a top-notch product, which appears to also function as advertised.

I have full front+rear door seals and glass seals, sitting in a box, that I have yet to install. I was going to do that last summer, but never got around to it after all the time I took swapping to a P7100 injection pump. I think I'll end up installing some jute or insulation in the front cab voids behind the kickpanels, assuming they are empty like I seem to recall from a few years ago. Otherwise, the truck still has full jute insulation under the carpet, then large matching carpet floormats in the passenger and driver footwells, then Husky Liner rubber floormats on top of that. Along with a full-width rubber floormat in the rear seat footwell, and 1" foam sound insulation on the entire cab rear panel (behind rear seat back).. overall the in-cab noise damped pretty well I figure.

The new front axle setup will engage 4WD the same as a stock setup.. only this one will spin the front driveshaft full time like any Dodge 2003-up, since I'm deleting the CAD be going to a solid passenger [long side] axle shaft. I don't have an issue with this, since I'll get a new [stronger] front driveshaft made+balanced so there are no issues front the beginning, and I'll keep the functioning current stock driveshaft as a trail spare. I'll keep the axle a unit bearings design (no freespin kit) so it's easy to replace bearings while out of town if needed. The carrier will be a Yukon Ziplocker.. so it's selectable via onboard air like an ARB.. it'll essentially handle offroad just like it currently does when the locker is off (so it behaves like an open front carrier as it currently is)... which honestly works surprisingly well most of the time on this heavy pig.

 

[Asha'man]

Very cool build, I'll be going back through it. Really intrigued by the sound blankets, and will be looking hard at them for my own truck. I bet with the oil pan and valve cover ones, you'll see a huge difference. I did a bunch of Dynamat Xtreme in my cab when I did the quad cab swap on my '96 12v, and it helps a ton when I'm inside, but it's still a very loud engine outside the truck.

As far as axles, I'm in much the same boat at the moment, but junkyarded a pair of front and rear axles from an '04 2500 gasser instead of sticking with second gen stuff. I'm adding a Nitro helical gear LSD in the front and an Artec truss, along with EMF joints and everything else replaced with new. The 10.50 rear already has a similar geared LSD, and huge disc brakes too. They're 4.10 geared for the 37's that will hopefully also make an appearance this year, which should put me close to stock gearing.

I love seeing another ************ second gen!

 

[frojoe]

Awesome, thanks for the kind words! Do you have your truck posted anywhere? Good luck with the axle installs and you won't regret going to 37's! You'll just need longer front control arms.. but you don't need to go crazy with a "long arm" kit or anything like that.

 

[Asha'man]

Just Instagram, haphazardly and infrequently. @everyday_gearhead on there. I should probably do a build thread somewhere, maybe here. When I posted last night, my signature reflected progress about halfway through building a truck I sold ~7 years ago, putting my last participation here about eleven years ago? Either way, I'm terrible at posting, but there's a little bit out there.

I did Metalcloak short arms recently, along with Thuren XS coils and their new second gen trackbar. Really excited for this axle build, and all the accompanying bits that'll come along with it, like '09+ steering. My '98-'99 HD setup is getting a little worn, after six years or so.