Overlandtowater
Well-known member
great post, I bet you where tired after 13 hours with the kids.
2000 Suburban K1500 budget low lift with 37"s
- Thread starter CrazyDrei
- Start date
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
dirtdobberoffroad,
It wasn't too bad, I've done days this long with them around Death Valley last summer, they are very used to the routine, but yes I was just as tired of them as they were of me.
Todd780
OverCamper
Is that not Bullwinkle?
The moose looked cool, kids liked it and I didn't look into the history of this place.
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Patagonia MT 40k mile torture test and review.
Milestar Patagonia MT 37x12.5 R17
I had these tires for nearly two years and approximately 38,000 miles. Miles were broken down to approximately 1,000 miles of 10-15psi technical trails/crawling. 9,000 miles of 15-20psi fast dirt roads/washboard. 2,000 miles of 15-20psi 75mph highway driving. 18,000 miles 50psi highway driving. All these numbers are approximate, I do not have the time or patience to retrace all my adventures and get the exact miles for all my trips.
Based on the numbers above, I beat the crap out of these tires and they held up remarkably. This is the only tire I will ever put on this off-road adventure specific vehicle for the rest of it's life. It's an LT tire, load D, M+S rated. I chose this tire primarily because of the low weight 71-74 lbs, most being closer to 72 lbs. This is the lightest weight MT tire available in 37x12.5 size. Only BFGoodrich AT KO2 and Cooper discovered AT were lighter at 60 and 70 lbs. but they were AT not MT. Secondly the price was unbeatable. I paid $204 per tire shipped for the first set I bought.
Balancing: they took 4-6oz each, not too bad for a tire this size. One tire took 12oz, I asked the tech to strip the weights and start again, took 8oz the second time around, still not too bad.
Highway driving: when inflated to 45-50psi the tire is silent, it's quieter at 65mph than Toyo Open Country MTs standing still or BFGoodrich KO2s at 25mph. Center block strip rolls effortlessly and steering is very quick and responsive while getting the same miles per gallon as I was with the Nitto Dura Grappler Highway Terrain tires these replaced. Highway driving at 15-20psi is doable on the highway at 70-75mph but the pitch and yaw of a 6,000lb truck gets to be a little nerve wrecking. No issues with the excessive sidewall flexing even at low pressures on the highway. Steering is a different story, I broke a power steering pump trying to man handle these tires on the pavement with low pressure and not moving. Apparently the surface area increases so dramatically that unless the truck is moving turning the tires creates too much friction.
Dirt road driving: this is what just about everyone considers off-road driving. Dirt roads or washboard. At 50psi the ride is paint can shaker unbearable, however when dropped to 20psi for regular dirt or 15psi for extensive washboard 10" of sidewall provide a magic carpet of a comfortable ride. My toddlers always fell asleep within minutes of getting of the pavement, guess they approved of the gentle rocking of the truck off road even at speeds of upto 65mph. Back to 20psi off road driving. When deflated the footprint increased dramatically, ride was smooth and stable. Cornering was precise and deliberate. Huge blocks cleared sand, gravel, mud and snow very effectively. We covered several thousand miles in Death Valley over two years, with many 250-300 off-road mile days. Not too many people can leave Vegas, run up to Eureka sand dunes via Death Valley Rd, cruise up Steele Pass, then down Saline Valley Rd, up Lippincott Pass, and out via Ubehebe RD or Hunter Mountain Rd and back to Vegas via Echo Canyon Rd all in one day with a couple toddlers.
Sand: I spent many days playing around in the sand dunes. Had to run 10-15psi for best grip and ride. Made it to the top of 300-400ft tall competition hill in Amargosa, not too shabby considering I watched many dirt bikes fail lap after lap. Toyo Open Country MTs were better in the sand than Patagonia MTs most likely due to the 1" wider tread. I only got stuck once due to driver error but overall these tires took everywhere I pointed them in the sand. Could be better but I am still happy.
Snow: Snow covered trails upto 1ft deep was not an issue. Not quite as grippy as BFGoodrich KO2s but never got stuck and went through and up everything I pointed the truck at. Similar to sand, it does well but not as good as others.
Mud: I just moved to New England at the tail end of Mud Season. Had a chance to run a couple trails and explore my own back yard over the last two months. Never had to use 4wd on trails even in deep and rutted mud trails, had to use 4wd in my back yard, never got stuck, never had issues. Huge blocks clear mud extremely well and the tires are very happy even in the deepest and muddiest trails I went on.
Durability: 8ply D rated. I was skeptical about the sidewall strength however I was proved wrong. Two months after mounting them I went on an advanced trail that I had absolutely no business being on. Even RZRs and dirt bikes deemed it impassable. It was a fun adventure of sharp pointy rocks which turned into 2-3ft sharp pointy boulders. I lost a running board and shredded the sidewalls of all the tires really bad. I drove with the gouge int he picture above for over a year before another sharp pointy lava rock in a volcano finally finished off my sidewall. This plug held good at around 8.5psi for 26 miles until we got off the trail. Much more durable than D or E rater BFGoodrich KO2 or Nitto Dura Grapplers.
Overall: Extremely happy. Overall a great tire. Excellent on highway, dirt roads and mud. Could be better in in sand and snow. Tread wear is acceptable, around 40,000 miles of unnecessarily hard abuse. Tread blocks remained soft and grippy all the way to the end. All things considered this is the best tire I could possibly have for a budget minded overland/adventure vehicle.
Only caveat with this tire is that you really should have a way to deflate and re-iflate these tires for the appropriate surfaces. Running at 15-20psi on the highway is just as retarded as running 45-50psi on washboard. I'm sure I lost a couple thousand miles of tire life from running underinflated on the highway. With the money you save on a set of these you will have enough left over for an ARB twin compressor, which is a win-win in my book!
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
Milestar Patagonia MT 37x12.5 R17
I had these tires for nearly two years and approximately 38,000 miles. Miles were broken down to approximately 1,000 miles of 10-15psi technical trails/crawling. 9,000 miles of 15-20psi fast dirt roads/washboard. 2,000 miles of 15-20psi 75mph highway driving. 18,000 miles 50psi highway driving. All these numbers are approximate, I do not have the time or patience to retrace all my adventures and get the exact miles for all my trips.
Based on the numbers above, I beat the crap out of these tires and they held up remarkably. This is the only tire I will ever put on this off-road adventure specific vehicle for the rest of it's life. It's an LT tire, load D, M+S rated. I chose this tire primarily because of the low weight 71-74 lbs, most being closer to 72 lbs. This is the lightest weight MT tire available in 37x12.5 size. Only BFGoodrich AT KO2 and Cooper discovered AT were lighter at 60 and 70 lbs. but they were AT not MT. Secondly the price was unbeatable. I paid $204 per tire shipped for the first set I bought.
Balancing: they took 4-6oz each, not too bad for a tire this size. One tire took 12oz, I asked the tech to strip the weights and start again, took 8oz the second time around, still not too bad.
Highway driving: when inflated to 45-50psi the tire is silent, it's quieter at 65mph than Toyo Open Country MTs standing still or BFGoodrich KO2s at 25mph. Center block strip rolls effortlessly and steering is very quick and responsive while getting the same miles per gallon as I was with the Nitto Dura Grappler Highway Terrain tires these replaced. Highway driving at 15-20psi is doable on the highway at 70-75mph but the pitch and yaw of a 6,000lb truck gets to be a little nerve wrecking. No issues with the excessive sidewall flexing even at low pressures on the highway. Steering is a different story, I broke a power steering pump trying to man handle these tires on the pavement with low pressure and not moving. Apparently the surface area increases so dramatically that unless the truck is moving turning the tires creates too much friction.
Dirt road driving: this is what just about everyone considers off-road driving. Dirt roads or washboard. At 50psi the ride is paint can shaker unbearable, however when dropped to 20psi for regular dirt or 15psi for extensive washboard 10" of sidewall provide a magic carpet of a comfortable ride. My toddlers always fell asleep within minutes of getting of the pavement, guess they approved of the gentle rocking of the truck off road even at speeds of upto 65mph. Back to 20psi off road driving. When deflated the footprint increased dramatically, ride was smooth and stable. Cornering was precise and deliberate. Huge blocks cleared sand, gravel, mud and snow very effectively. We covered several thousand miles in Death Valley over two years, with many 250-300 off-road mile days. Not too many people can leave Vegas, run up to Eureka sand dunes via Death Valley Rd, cruise up Steele Pass, then down Saline Valley Rd, up Lippincott Pass, and out via Ubehebe RD or Hunter Mountain Rd and back to Vegas via Echo Canyon Rd all in one day with a couple toddlers.
Sand: I spent many days playing around in the sand dunes. Had to run 10-15psi for best grip and ride. Made it to the top of 300-400ft tall competition hill in Amargosa, not too shabby considering I watched many dirt bikes fail lap after lap. Toyo Open Country MTs were better in the sand than Patagonia MTs most likely due to the 1" wider tread. I only got stuck once due to driver error but overall these tires took everywhere I pointed them in the sand. Could be better but I am still happy.
Snow: Snow covered trails upto 1ft deep was not an issue. Not quite as grippy as BFGoodrich KO2s but never got stuck and went through and up everything I pointed the truck at. Similar to sand, it does well but not as good as others.
Mud: I just moved to New England at the tail end of Mud Season. Had a chance to run a couple trails and explore my own back yard over the last two months. Never had to use 4wd on trails even in deep and rutted mud trails, had to use 4wd in my back yard, never got stuck, never had issues. Huge blocks clear mud extremely well and the tires are very happy even in the deepest and muddiest trails I went on.
Durability: 8ply D rated. I was skeptical about the sidewall strength however I was proved wrong. Two months after mounting them I went on an advanced trail that I had absolutely no business being on. Even RZRs and dirt bikes deemed it impassable. It was a fun adventure of sharp pointy rocks which turned into 2-3ft sharp pointy boulders. I lost a running board and shredded the sidewalls of all the tires really bad. I drove with the gouge int he picture above for over a year before another sharp pointy lava rock in a volcano finally finished off my sidewall. This plug held good at around 8.5psi for 26 miles until we got off the trail. Much more durable than D or E rater BFGoodrich KO2 or Nitto Dura Grapplers.
Overall: Extremely happy. Overall a great tire. Excellent on highway, dirt roads and mud. Could be better in in sand and snow. Tread wear is acceptable, around 40,000 miles of unnecessarily hard abuse. Tread blocks remained soft and grippy all the way to the end. All things considered this is the best tire I could possibly have for a budget minded overland/adventure vehicle.
Only caveat with this tire is that you really should have a way to deflate and re-iflate these tires for the appropriate surfaces. Running at 15-20psi on the highway is just as retarded as running 45-50psi on washboard. I'm sure I lost a couple thousand miles of tire life from running underinflated on the highway. With the money you save on a set of these you will have enough left over for an ARB twin compressor, which is a win-win in my book!
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
Overlandtowater
Well-known member
Thanks I've been waiting on a review from you on them...like I said before you made my mind up for me on these tires now I got to decide if I want to stuff 315s on it as they are cheaper than the 285s.
elpoffroad
Adventurer
i have also been thinking of a set of these for my excursion 
thanks for your review , love the adventures by the way!!!
thanks for your review , love the adventures by the way!!!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
VIDEO: Driving Patagonia MTs over obstacle with 0 psi tire pressure.
I woke up the other morning and one of my tires was flat, it's leaking somewhere and the new replacements already arrived. So I shot a quick video of the tire going over a 6" x 6" block of wood at different tire pressures to see how the tire handles the obstacle and which tire pressure makes for the smoothest ride.
45 psi
20 psi
15 psi
12.5 psi
10 psi
7.5 psi
5 psi
0 spi
I slowed down the video for actual tire going over the block and sped it up in between.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
I woke up the other morning and one of my tires was flat, it's leaking somewhere and the new replacements already arrived. So I shot a quick video of the tire going over a 6" x 6" block of wood at different tire pressures to see how the tire handles the obstacle and which tire pressure makes for the smoothest ride.
45 psi
20 psi
15 psi
12.5 psi
10 psi
7.5 psi
5 psi
0 spi
I slowed down the video for actual tire going over the block and sped it up in between.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
Overlandtowater
Well-known member
10-12.5 looks like where it likes to be.
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
GMT 800 parking brakes...
My Suburban has never had a working parking brake. When I bought it, I added a socket to the T-split between the rear wheels and that was enough to pass the inspection, it held the truck at a slight incline in neutral. Yay, but it only lasted a couple days. I tried adjusting the parking brake, replaced the brake shoes, new rear rotors, everything was completely hopeless, it refused to work.
When I got the Detroit rear locker, the extra play in the locker mechanism put more strain on the transmission, there were several times where I parked the truck on a steep incline that I thought I would break the gear selector trying to get the Sub out of PARK. Thats a lot of unnecessary stress on the tranny which has 280k miles on factory fluid with absolutely no problems.
Fast forward to January, I went on a trail and heard a screeching sound coming from the brakes similar to a time my Jeep budy got a rock stuck between his rotor and heat shield or the time I blew up my G80 diff and still drove the truck over 200 miles home. I drove the truck and the sound would go away when I traveled over nasty rocky terrain, immediately returned on pavement. I got home, jacked ip the truck, isolated the sound to the rear drivers side, ripped it apart and found that the screw for the retaining clip that held the parking shoe in place fell out and was bouncing around the drum and making hte unberable screeching sound. I didn't wan to mess with it then, took the parking shoe off and whatever pieces that were loose in the parking drum and drove without the drivers side parking brake. Sub continued to make really loud screeching sounds here and there but they usually went away after a 20-30 miles.
Now that I am in the rust belt, I wanted to address the parking brake issue once and for all.
Took the brake caliper bracket bolts off with my walmart hand tool set, oops, forgot that righty tighty, lefty loosy, snapped this 10.8 bolt, had to heat it up to melt locktite and get it out. Silver bolt is the new one.
So yeah, this is what I saw when I pulled the rear rotor. Nothing inside, there were some parts there back in January, but I guess they fell out and ground down to dust over the last five months.
$7 eBay parking brake hardware/rebuild kit and $12 eBay parking brake shoes later, it looks like everything fits and adjusted properly. I put a crapload of antisieze into the parts of the parking brake that move and tested the setup. HOLY COW!!! PARKING BRAKE ACTUALLY WORKS!!!! Bolted everything back up, anti-siezed the crap out of every bolt except the brake caliper brackets. Turned the truck on, engaged the parking brake and put the truck in DRIVE, it didn't move!!!
I celebrated with a ghetto lobster roll, which might get me deported from Maine! I still can not believe that after 180,000 miles and six years I finally got the parking brake to work for under $20.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
My Suburban has never had a working parking brake. When I bought it, I added a socket to the T-split between the rear wheels and that was enough to pass the inspection, it held the truck at a slight incline in neutral. Yay, but it only lasted a couple days. I tried adjusting the parking brake, replaced the brake shoes, new rear rotors, everything was completely hopeless, it refused to work.
When I got the Detroit rear locker, the extra play in the locker mechanism put more strain on the transmission, there were several times where I parked the truck on a steep incline that I thought I would break the gear selector trying to get the Sub out of PARK. Thats a lot of unnecessary stress on the tranny which has 280k miles on factory fluid with absolutely no problems.
Fast forward to January, I went on a trail and heard a screeching sound coming from the brakes similar to a time my Jeep budy got a rock stuck between his rotor and heat shield or the time I blew up my G80 diff and still drove the truck over 200 miles home. I drove the truck and the sound would go away when I traveled over nasty rocky terrain, immediately returned on pavement. I got home, jacked ip the truck, isolated the sound to the rear drivers side, ripped it apart and found that the screw for the retaining clip that held the parking shoe in place fell out and was bouncing around the drum and making hte unberable screeching sound. I didn't wan to mess with it then, took the parking shoe off and whatever pieces that were loose in the parking drum and drove without the drivers side parking brake. Sub continued to make really loud screeching sounds here and there but they usually went away after a 20-30 miles.
Now that I am in the rust belt, I wanted to address the parking brake issue once and for all.
Took the brake caliper bracket bolts off with my walmart hand tool set, oops, forgot that righty tighty, lefty loosy, snapped this 10.8 bolt, had to heat it up to melt locktite and get it out. Silver bolt is the new one.
So yeah, this is what I saw when I pulled the rear rotor. Nothing inside, there were some parts there back in January, but I guess they fell out and ground down to dust over the last five months.
$7 eBay parking brake hardware/rebuild kit and $12 eBay parking brake shoes later, it looks like everything fits and adjusted properly. I put a crapload of antisieze into the parts of the parking brake that move and tested the setup. HOLY COW!!! PARKING BRAKE ACTUALLY WORKS!!!! Bolted everything back up, anti-siezed the crap out of every bolt except the brake caliper brackets. Turned the truck on, engaged the parking brake and put the truck in DRIVE, it didn't move!!!
I celebrated with a ghetto lobster roll, which might get me deported from Maine! I still can not believe that after 180,000 miles and six years I finally got the parking brake to work for under $20.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
Overlandtowater
Well-known member
well that makes me feel better about tearing into my parking brake...
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
dirtdobberoffroad,
Parking brakes in these trucks seem to be very simple, easy and cheap to service, I would look into it every time you change your rear brake pads. Here are the parts you need to re-build your parking brake setup.
$11 parking brake hardware kit
I also sprayed de-greaser on the barrel into which the hardware inserts, scrubbed it with wire brush, bored it out slightly with a 1/2" drill bit so that the hardware slides smoothly, and put a copious amount of anti-seize instead of white lightning grease that's provided. Pretty simple setup and seems to still be working.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
Buddha.
Finally in expo white.
The parking brake on my 2500 only sometimes releases. One of the springs responsible for pulling the shoes back in broke and I haven’t gotten around to fixing it, you have to pull the axle and take off the hub with the full floater I think. Not looking forward to it.
Hey Drei, I have read the whole thread and am a little lost on how much lift you ended up with to clear the 37's. It looks like originally you had the ford keys for about 2" plus the 3" body lift. Did it stay roughly the same height with the coilover conversion or did it go back lower closer to stock? I think it looks fantastic, I love a good low COG setup with big tires!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
bluewillow,
You are correct. I first used FORD keys to gain approximately 2.5" then body spacers for another 3" bringing up to just a hair under 5.5". Then I trimmed 2-4" in the wheel wells to fit 37s. At this point both front and rear rubbed at full turn and at full articulation. I ran 44 or 45mm offset rims, which helped but not enough. Finally I went with 2" rear wheel spacers and 1.25 front wheel spacers. This completely eliminated rear wheel rub and tucked the wheel perfectlty into the wheel well on full articulation. Fronts only slightly rub on at full lock and full articulation.
When I swapped in the coilovers I kept exactly the same height as with the keys. So I am right around 5" lift.
Pushing the wheels out on all four corners and keeping the heavier engine, transmission, differentials and fuel tank lower and closer to the ground than a traditional diff-drop lift gave me nearly the same COG as I had stock which is a great compromise for only having a limited IFS.
Thank you for enjoying the thread.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Quadrasteer Suburban 3/4ton
2003 Chevy Quadrasteer Suburban. Four wheel steering, four wheel drive 2500 series. Needs work to get a state inspection sticker but is salvageable. Will need brakes, fuel lines, shocks and shift...
maine.craigslist.org
Found a quadrasteer Suburban with 121k mines on it for under $4k. This is one great deal. Almost tempted to pick it up as a parts truck for mine and swap out the quadrasteer onto my Sub.