2000's-ish 4Runner for Expo Build?

[fireball]

4R has 1200# of payload capacity. LC has 1715#. That makes a big difference when adding a bunch of gear and weight. IMO the 4R doesn't do very well fully armored and loaded up as a true expo rig. Especially for us since we tried to put 4 people and a dog into it!

I've never owned a 5spd 4R so can't comment on the differences.

The OP stated his build list was short, but then listed 600# worth of front bumper, winch, rear bumper, tire carrier, cargo system, roof rack. IMO that's right on the border for how much weight/gear/type of build the 4R is "good for" If he can keep it a bit simpler I think he'll be happier. Or consider moving to a different platform.

 

[summerprophet]

I have a rather modified 99 4runner, and echo all that has already been said on here.

If you plan on heavily modifying the vehicle, upsizing tires, heavy bumpers, boxes, rack, tire carrier, than you are essentially building a small LC with less power and less interior space. If that is the intent, just get the LC. By the time you are all done, fuel economy is going to be the same.

The 4runners are great little rigs, and as far as the Toyota lineup goes, they are the cheapest thing out there.

Bonuses:
Small size: great for standard "jeep sized trails and bridges" found in central Washington. Frankly, an LC wouldn't fit. Honestly, compared to the jeeps, I am terrified of being surrounded by so much glass in the tight paths through the trees.
Initial cost: easily half the cost of a similar Tacoma.
Turning radius: Not quite as tight as a motorbike, but pretty damn close!
Its a Toyota!

Downfalls:
Soft rear suspension: 500 lbs is about all you can carry. That mean 4 people and a aftermarket rear bumper puts you at capacity. I attempted to carry 42 gallons of water centered in the rig for a long distance MTB support trip, and the 4runner was sitting on the frame.
Weak steering rack: 100k in stock form before replacement. Less if you upsize the tires.
Front brakes: If upgrading tires, upgrade to tundra brakes will make things feel better. If loading it for expedition travel, consider upgrading the brakes to be lawsuit prevention.
Interior: A bit snug on the inside. If you are taller than 6'1", do NOT get one with a sunroof, as your head height will be low. Actually more interior space than the tacomas from the same year.

 

[AxleIke]

Excellent point about the steering rack. Strangely weak design. I thought my old truck was bad, but at least you could buy a bulletproof idler arm for half the cost of a reman rack.

Rear suspension is tricky. I put Land cruiser coils in the back, and that seems to ride okay with gear and a rear bumper. But yeah, its not going to load up like a Land cruiser.

All good points, and I agree with keeping it simple to be the best way. Though I never seem to follow that on any truck, but I'm a bit thick in the head.

 

[paddlenbike]

Two people maximum, no dogs. Exploring meaning back country trails, Usal Road (Northern California), Death Valley, etc. A RTT might be a future add-on at some point. I certainly don't NEED the size of a Land Cruiser. Some of the amenities would be nice but a certainly not a necessity.

Jim! I like the direction this is going. As you know I have gone from one generation Toyota pickup truck to the next until I came across the 3rd gen 4Runner that I've had for the past 9 happy years. I just can't go back to a truck after having a 4Runner. Mostly it has to do with the security and lack of dust inside the 4Runner compared to a truck, and I did everything imaginable to try and seal the pickup bed area. I also love the rear coils and the ride and lack of axle wrap compared to a pickup. That said, the Tacoma is a good truck.

Personally, I would stick with either a 4Runner (3rd gen or 4th gen) or the Land Cruiser. The Cruiser is nice but I can't stomach the gas mileage. With the TRD supercharger I have more power than a LC without the poor fuel economy, not to mention it's in another league on high elevation passes. But forget the SC, I just think the 3rd gen is a really well built, fun to drive, easy to mod, good-all-around vehicle.

I've done the Lost Coast several times in my 4Runner and same goes for Death Valley, Joshua Tree, Mojave...the types of places you mention. I don't want for anything else than what I have. But keep us updated on your search!

Ken

 

[paddlenbike]

How foolish of me to post without including Death Valley and Lost Coast pictures.

 

[lndhark]

Kenneth! My brother from a different mother! I was hoping you'd chime in! Your build was actually one of the reasons I started looking at 3rd Gen 4Runners. I was really surprised by how many I could find in a cross-country search, especially 2000's which is my target year. I think it will be a perfect vehicle for us (and Jennifer really isn't a fan of the Land Cruiser's fuel economy!). The 4Runner seems to tick all of the boxes on the list...and still remain a daily driver (for those really bad days when the two-wheeled BMW won't cut it). The SC is really tempting...and I still know people that might have stumbled across one that fell off of a forklift :sombrero: I can see the truck gaining a lot of tonnage with a roof top tent, armor, gear, etc...I think the SC would be mandatory for climbing the Cascades and Siskiyous so I'm budgeting for that.

The search is still on and I'm still not sold on a particular model. I think it will come down to the best truck I can find...best mechanical and overall condition...and price. I'll keep the thread current!

 

[AxleIke]

Jim! I like the direction this is going. As you know I have gone from one generation Toyota pickup truck to the next until I came across the 3rd gen 4Runner that I've had for the past 9 happy years. I just can't go back to a truck after having a 4Runner. Mostly it has to do with the security and lack of dust inside the 4Runner compared to a truck, and I did everything imaginable to try and seal the pickup bed area. I also love the rear coils and the ride and lack of axle wrap compared to a pickup. That said, the Tacoma is a good truck.

Personally, I would stick with either a 4Runner (3rd gen or 4th gen) or the Land Cruiser. The Cruiser is nice but I can't stomach the gas mileage. With the TRD supercharger I have more power than a LC without the poor fuel economy, not to mention it's in another league on high elevation passes. But forget the SC, I just think the 3rd gen is a really well built, fun to drive, easy to mod, good-all-around vehicle.

I've done the Lost Coast several times in my 4Runner and same goes for Death Valley, Joshua Tree, Mojave...the types of places you mention. I don't want for anything else than what I have. But keep us updated on your search!

Ken

Agreed. I think we have very similar experiences because of the superchargers and 5 speeds, and obviously that differs from the others who've armored up Auto trucks. Makes a huge difference in the power. So, to the OP, I'd look for a 5 speed.

 

[AxleIke]

I also wanted to put up some fuel mileage numbers, since that is always a factor. I get 19-20 mpg, all highway, loaded with gear for a few days (fridge, food, camp gear, water). I do not have a roof top tent, nor do I currently carry anything on the roof, so I imagine it will change if I get a rack or RTT.

15-16 for a mixed highway, low range tank.

My truck has an ARB front bumper, with an 8k winch, sliders, and a rear bumper with tire carrier, 33's (so the mileage gets corrected for the tires), and 4.3 gears from an automatic 4runner (no correction for that on these trucks). I have 245k on the oringinal motor, a first gen supercharger, stock airbox, colder plugs. Everything from toyota. I'm in the process of adding a 7th injector kit, but haven't got it in yet. I don't know how much that will change the mileage.

I don't know what the real world numbers on a 100 series land cruiser are. I've heard anywhere in the teens, but as with these trucks, I think it will vary quite a bit from truck to truck. My numbers are, I think, on the better end of what I've seen posted for all 3rd gen runners, but not too out there for 5 speed trucks.

Cheers!

 

[paddlenbike]

Kenneth! My brother from a different mother! I was hoping you'd chime in! Your build was actually one of the reasons I started looking at 3rd Gen 4Runners.

Ha, well, maybe there's some truth to that former statement but to call my 4Runner a "build" is using words very loosely--you could "build" a 4Runner just like mine in one weekend. But that's what we all like about 3rd gens so much...they don't need much. My truck is a mid-to-late 2000 model year which means it got the much lower suspension, so I found that I needed some lift to keep the ride nice when loaded and moving fast through the desert. In stock form the bumpstops were pretty close to the axle and it made for a bouncy ride.

Like AxleIke, I much prefer a standard transmission and they do perform significantly better, but even a V6 auto is lightyears ahead of the 22R combo you ran previously. I am pretty sure a Toyota automatic soaks up around 30 hp. How do I come up with that? My 3,700 lb Xtra Cab truck (with campershell) had the 150hp V6 and a 5-speed manual and I felt like the performance was equal to a 3,800 lb 3rd gen with the 183 hp engine and automatic transmission. I wasn't super fond of the performance of the auto, but you know me, my last car was a modded Supra turbo. I ended up with the supercharger because I love power and I wanted to be able to comfortably tow a trailer over the Sierras or Rockies without slowing down. It's a fun but totally unnecessary modification...unless you're like me.

I would pick up the cleanest and best maintained 4Runner you can find. Do the maintenance sweep, then wheel it and see what I needs. I suspect that you'll want better coils and shocks to handle the desert at speed. You may want rocksliders. You may want to build some modular feet for the roof rack that will allow you a number of options from toy-hauling to carrying extra fuel if you need it to supporting your RTT. (PM me if you'd like to see pics of my friend's well-executed modular rack.) If the 4runner is equipped with the rear locker as many are in California and Colorado, that may be all you need, along with some decent tires. Speaking of which, I ran 265/75R16 BFGs for years and could get 21 MPG even with the supercharger. Now that I made the choice to move up to 275/70R17 tires with a more aggressive tread, I seem to rarely be able to hit that magic 20 mpg mark, falling somewhere around 19.5MPG. That's not terrible, but it was the only modification I have done to-date that had any sort of compromise whatsoever. That's why I would follow the previous recommendations in this thread of keeping the build on the lighter side. Some sliders here and and a bumper there will be fine, but adding in a permanently-installed roof rack, along with a ton of armor and a heavy rear bumper with tire carrier and 33s are going to get you into that 17.5 MPG territory. If you're okay with that, then fine.

I can't say anything bad about the LC and I would recommend driving one as they are a completely different vehicle than the 4Runner. The LC feels more comfortable and refined and has the best tailgate situation of any SUV made. Meanwhile the 4Runner feels more athletic and maneuverable, and with that it sort of feels more fun. It's also less expensive in every regard, from purchase price to insurance and repair costs to fuel costs and cost to modify.

 

[rickashay]

I would pick up the cleanest and best maintained 4Runner you can find. Do the maintenance sweep, then wheel it and see what I needs. I suspect that you'll want better coils and shocks to handle the desert at speed. You may want rocksliders. You may want to build some modular feet for the roof rack that will allow you a number of options from toy-hauling to carrying extra fuel if you need it to supporting your RTT. (PM me if you'd like to see pics of my friend's well-executed modular rack.) If the 4runner is equipped with the rear locker as many are in California and Colorado, that may be all you need, along with some decent tires. Speaking of which, I ran 265/75R16 BFGs for years and could get 21 MPG even with the supercharger. Now that I made the choice to move up to 275/70R17 tires with a more aggressive tread, I seem to rarely be able to hit that magic 20 mpg mark, falling somewhere around 19.5MPG. That's not terrible, but it was the only modification I have done to-date that had any sort of compromise whatsoever. That's why I would follow the previous recommendations in this thread of keeping the build on the lighter side. Some sliders here and and a bumper there will be fine, but adding in a permanently-installed roof rack, along with a ton of armor and a heavy rear bumper with tire carrier and 33s are going to get you into that 17.5 MPG territory. If you're okay with that, then fine.

I can't say anything bad about the LC and I would recommend driving one as they are a completely different vehicle than the 4Runner. The LC feels more comfortable and refined and has the best tailgate situation of any SUV made. Meanwhile the 4Runner feels more athletic and maneuverable, and with that it sort of feels more fun. It's also less expensive in every regard, from purchase price to insurance and repair costs to fuel costs and cost to modify.

Nailed it.

My 3rd Gen Runner days are long gone but I still love the platform and have debating buying another for my fiance at some point. Having just sold my 80 series (no, not a 100) the size differecne on the trail coming from the 4Runner was very noticeable. The 4Runner always felt more agile, for sure. Mine was built with full armor, 33's, 4.30 gears, full length roof rack, auto, and I would get 17 MPG only on the best of days on the highway, and at a constant 60 mph pace. Most of the time I was around 14-15 MPG in the city.

The 80 on the other hand was built in a similar fashion but with 35s. I got 15MPG on the highway usually and 11-12 in town. The 100 will probably vary quite a bit though there... However I will reiterate the cost of ownership on the Cruisers will be significantly higher. Great machines through and through but I say if you dont need the 100 for its size, the 3rd gen is a no-brainer.

 

[paddlenbike]

Having just sold my 80 series

I still think your 3rd gen was one of the cleanest and nicest builds out there. Very functional and not overdone. By the time you've modded a 3rd gen, an 80 series, possibly a 100-series and a Tundra, we will let you be the judge on what the best overlanding vehicle may be.

 

[4x4mike]

To the OP, good luck on your quest. It's not a hard one but as you know and have read there are several ways to skin a cat and even more ways to cook one.

I'm the owner of a '99 3rd gen with a 5 speed and e-locker. It's mildly modified with taller coils, sliders, bumper and homemade skids. I feel the 3rd gens are one of the easier vehicles to build up and make items for. There is also a lot of aftermarket support for any avenue you'd want to take. Once you get into newer vehicles their buy-in price increases greatly, they get bigger and heavier, harder and more expensive to mod, not to mention there seems to be reliability and durability issues when you go newer.

I've got a wife and 2 kids (almost 3 and 6) and the 3rd gen is a little small when packed up for a trip. We make it work but I've had to build a roof rack and sometimes use a hitch basket. Our trips can be purely road with hotels to 3-5 days of boondocking. We've packed and traveled for years so we have what we bring down to a science. It's a combination of light weight and space saving because of room and my patience.

I really like the interior room of the 4th gens and would take one if someone wanted to trade. I sleep in the 4Runner if it's just me or me and my wife. I'm less than 6 feet tall but if you're near it or over it you'll need to make provisions to sleep in the back. Sleeping platforms are neat but I require the rear seats to be up because of the kids and also because of the kids I need the interior room that a platform or drawers would take up. Front seat room is also marginal and at 5'10" and 180 pounds it feels a little cramped. For me a 4th gen is WAYYY more comfortable.

Wheeling a 3rd gen is fun and for the west coast it's a great size. Trails tend to get narrow in places depending where you are and being too tall could cause issues. They have great ground clearance so you don't need a massive lift to do moderate trails. Less lift helps with fuel mileage and you get to retain stock quality parts instead of replacing them with so-so parts that break or wear out. I'd say for "Expo" use keeping tire size under 33" is the key to happiness. Hopefully there wouldn't be the need to regear, your drivetrain and steering is happy, you can fit a spare in the factory location, you can keep the stock wheels and hopefully eek out the most mileage from the slightly undersized fuel tank.

The 3rd gens and 4th for that matter are truly go anywhere vehicles. They have enough power to move what they are while maintaining economy. There are great things to be said for the larger LC's but the cost to build them along with the economy is too high for me to consider.

Green seems to be a popular color.

Come to think of it, everyone has 3rd gens. If you end up with one you'll be in good company.

 

[4x4mike]

My build list is somewhat short but would likely consist of the following:

ARB bull bar
Safari snorkel
OME suspension
Rear bumper/tire carrier
Sliders
Roof rack
Drawers (for 100/4Runner)
Tires/wheels as needed

Any input is appreciated. This won't be a hard core rock crawler like my last truck. I'm looking forward to getting back into this working on something with more than two cylinders again (but another BMW isn't out of the question either).

With the concentration of a field mouse and the memory of something I went back and read the original post. Your above list is possible in the trucks you mentioned, each with their pros and cons. From a long background in web wheeling and arm chair quarterbacking I'd suggest penciling out your plans. I'd make a list with prices and weights of the above items. Then hone in on your platform choice. All those items slapped on a 3rd gen with and automatic transmission will turn it into a pig. A fun and pretty pig but not fast and more-not fast loaded piggy going on a trip. A supercharger will fix some of it, not all of it, but at a cost.

A rear bumper and tire carrier will require larger and taller coils which is well documented. Unloaded daily driving this will stinkbug the 4Runner but you will gain space where the spare used to be. That space could be used for an auxiliary fuel tank, OBA, storage etc (add this to the price column of the penciled out sheet). A large front bumper will also require a slightly taller spring. If it's going to be daily driven a lot it will be a little rough. I've got the medium level OME lift with Bilstein 5100's and it's stiff unloaded. Loaded it handles it but it's not as nimble, hence my desire to keep things lighter weight.

Locally there are a lot of built up landcruisers. There is a guy that lives near me that has two built up rigs and a slightly modified FJ40. None are efficient, sporty or super comfortable but he likes them and that's what he was after. I'm just sharing my uses and experiences. I take mine on monthly trips all over. Unloaded on the flats I can get 24 mpg and near 20 mpg loaded on the freeway, if going the speed limit.

Size wise I feel my 3rd gen is a compromise for me but it's a happy relationship. Sometimes it seems small but who's counting?

 

[lndhark]

Looking at maybe a 4th Gen Now?

I had the chance to sit in a 2000 4Runner and found that it just might be a little too cramped for my long legs. I really wanted to get a 4Runner of this generation but in taking what a lot of you said to heart, I think it will be just too small. Given that our plans will now likely include a RTT, I think I need to go big.

A 100-Series Land Cruiser is still high on the list (or an LX470) but I've also started looking at V6-powered 5th Gen 4Runners as a build platform. The GVWR is a tad higher and they are a bit roomier on interior space (without having grown in epic proportions on the outside).

Also spent some time in a 5th Gen 4Runner Trail...wow. That's a nice truck. With a nice price tag too!

 

[paddlenbike]

I would definitely go Land Cruiser, it has one of the highest quality indexes of any SUV (specifically the 100-series.) 5th gen seems to draw lots of quality complaints from those who owned prior generations, not to mention they are really light on power.