2004 2WD Chevy Tahoe, what are my options.
- Thread starter cntryislandboy
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Smileyshaun
Observer
Actually it is a full on locker that uses clutches to quiet down the locking , they work well if your not full throttle mud blasting with them .
Smileyshaun
Observer
To the op
If you know your rig and do like it and have the ability to turn a wrench you could always make your 4x4 . But with the low cost of these rigs you could just save up , buy one and get it all setup before selling the 2wd . Leaving the 2wd stock and in good shape can sometimes pull more money than the 4x4 ones will just because they are so few and far between .
If you know your rig and do like it and have the ability to turn a wrench you could always make your 4x4 . But with the low cost of these rigs you could just save up , buy one and get it all setup before selling the 2wd . Leaving the 2wd stock and in good shape can sometimes pull more money than the 4x4 ones will just because they are so few and far between .
gatorgrizz27
Well-known member
Agreed with most of your post, especially in this day and age where guys think they need front and rear ARB lockers, 35” mud terrains, dual batteries and winches to drive down a forest service fire road. They will be filming a YouTube video about how crazy their 6” deep water crossing was with a hard sand bottom when some dude scouting for elk will buzz by in a stock Toyota Corolla.
Things are a bit different with your family in the vehicle though than back in the college days where you were fine being stuck or broken down for a couple days so long as you had a case of beer, bag of beef jerky, a sleeping bag and $20.
Being stuck to the frame with 2 slashed sidewalls, my wife giving me the death stare and both kids screaming in harmony in the back seat because I had the “lets see where this goes or if I can make it” attitude isn’t high on my list of things to do.
So yes, get out there, but I’d have at least a set of decent tires and tread carefully. Ideally make a trip with a buddy in another vehicle and find a route you know is passable before coming back with everyone else.
Semantics aside, both of mine seemed to function identically to automatic lockers perfectly. I’d feel a tire start to spin, keep light throttle, and I would feel it lock up and both tires pull. You could definitely tell when it was engaged as it would bind the inside tire and jerk/hop while turning.
I’ve heard they were prone to blowing up if a guy was heavy on the skinny pedal and it was locking/unlocking forcefully, but I haven’t heard about them just wearing out from use like a limited slip. Not saying it isn’t possible, but my trucks had 165k and 290k on the original G80’s as far as I’m aware.
gatorgrizz27
Well-known member
Lots of the 2wd trucks had torsion bars, including the Suburban I owned, 2000 GMT800 1/2 ton. But hey, keep name calling, if you use caps maybe more people will listen.
2000-2006 Chevy Suburban 2wd/4wd 1-3" Lift Torsion Keys - MaxTrac 840513
MaxTrac Suspension Store Lowering Kits, Lift Kits & Leveling Kits
maxtracstore.com
In any case, putting and actual “lift” with drop brackets, etc, on that vehicle is a waste of $.
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CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
MTVR,
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you think that a Detroit Locker is not a locker either.
G80 is a locker, it fully locks both axle shafts in forward and reverse up to 25mph.
Wrong, and wrong again. You obviously don't know what a locker is, or how they work.
The Eaton Gov-Lock (G80) is as I stated, a clutch-type equal traction device. The Detroit Locker is a ratcheting differential with no clutches.
The Gov-Lock's default state is open. The Detroit Locker's default state is locked- it's even locked when you're parked.
The Gov-Lock is activated by a governor, and requires 120 rpm (two full wheel rotations per second) MORE slippage on one side than the other, before it will attempt to activate. The Detroit Locker has no such problem, because it's default state is 100% locked.
Once the Gov-Lock's governor sees 120 rpm more slippage on one side than the other, it pushes on a cam that compresses two clutch packs, one on each side. When applied, the clutch packs attempt to slow the faster wheel down to the slower wheel's speed. The problem with that, is that by the time you are applying enough horsepower to induce that much slippage, the clutches tend to wear out rather quickly. Once the clutch packs are worn out, you can press on them all you want, and they're not gonna do much of anything.
The Detroit Locker, on the other hand, is locked by default, and ratchets to allow the outside wheel to over-run on corners as it is pulled along it's longer path.
The Gov-Lock also tends to explode in performance applications, often destroying the ring & pinion, carrier bearings, pinion bearings, and axle bearings.
No, they're not- see my post above...
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
MTVR,
I am very pleased that you can read a sales brochure and recite it. Do you have detailed write ups from accredited sources, not Pirate 4x4, on the exact failures of the G80 spontaneously exploding? I am just pretty sure that you are bitter that GM guys can get a locker for their trucks for under $100 shipped on ebay and you are forced to spend over a $1,000 on a fancy ARB that you have to manually lock and unlock yourself, just saying.
So here is what happened to my G80 while doing something stupid with 3.73 gears and 37" tires. Oh yeah I drove back home in 2wd, really it was 1WD. And I put another 20k miles on that exact G80 before replacing it with a Detroit locker.
OH SNAP!!! finally found a weak point in my drivetrain
This is happened a few weeks ago. One hour before I was ready to put the new tires on the truck a friend just bought a Jeep and wanted to get it dirty, so I figure we go hit up the trails that are 1.5miles from my house. We played around on the sand stone, navigated a couple fun boulder fields and then we came up on a pretty steep hill. The Jeep only made 1/3 of the way up before the truetracks gave up and did not deliver enough limited slip to make it to the top. Of course full of newly gained confidence I gave the hill a shot.
After several attempts and finding the right line I make it nearly to the top.
Got my front tires up the last 4ft ledge at the top, but the rear right would not go up. I backed down and gave it hell.
Pretty suspension articulation.
This time I gunned the truck up the hill, bounced the front wheels up the last ledge, and got the rear left up, but the rear right that had all the traction at this point started spinning. The wheels are spinning at about 20mph at this point, and I did not previously spin the tires to engage the GovLock. Rear left is the only tire that has traction, while the other three are spinning, and at 20mph the GovLock engages, BANG, SNAP, CRACKLE, POP!!! First thing that goes through my mind is I finally busted the weak front end or CVs or the infamous G80 finally exploded like everyone said it would. I lost all power and could only roll backwards down the hill.
Like a pure genius that I am I attempted to climb the hill again but only got as far as the Jeep, this was a good time to turn around and go home. I put the truck in 2WD and the rear diff spun then engaged, I drove approximately 1.5 miles on the trail and another 1.5miles on pavement in 1WD.
My buddy helped me rip the rear end apart and this is what we found.
Rear left half axle, it's pretty but this is not what its supposed to look like.
The other end of the half axle that is still stuck in the G80.
Close up of the broken piece. I attempted to remove it but it would not budge.
After a couple of days in the deep freezer, I managed to push the axle in, get the C-clip out and remove the broken piece.
4130 Chromoly steel in the factory axles put up with an insane amount of force to break like this and not to mention 250k miles.
This shaft is designed to handle 97,000 PSI of tensile strength and I managed to break it.
I am keeping this piece as a souvenir to remind myself to lay off the throttle and enjoy the truck for overlanding not rock crawling or hill-climbs.
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
MTVR,
So Eaton, the manufacturer that makes locking differentials says that it is a true locking differential but you still think that it is not, silly.
Smileyshaun's picture reposted.
What kind of "write-ups" are you asking for? My customer's Repair Orders?
I was quite literally born into the industry, ASE certifications, and several successful decades doing everything from Senior Line Technician to Service Manager. I have replaced dozens of broken Gov-Locks, and seen hundreds and hundreds more that were worn out and simply didn't work anymore (even if the vehicle owner didn't realize it). If you install big heavy oversized tires on a Gov-Lock equipped vehicle and drive poorly, you can snap an axle, just like what you did.
And Chevrolet appointing me to their National Advisory Board may make me a "GM guy", but hey, what do I know...
MTVR,
So Eaton, the manufacturer that makes locking differentials says that it is a true locking differential but you still think that it is not, silly.
Smileyshaun's picture reposted.
That's just ad-speak. Take one apart- there's nothing in there that locks- just a couple of clutch packs. Read the sentence in their ad about flyweights and clutch system- that's all it is.
Here's a video that includes an exploded view of the Gov-Lock, showing it exactly as I said:
..and here's a video showing how the Detroit Locker works:
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CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
MTVR,
Your experience is noteworthy, lol. Do you have a picture of exactly which part of the G80 failed? If clutch packs fail it just won't lock, usually from lack of diff fluid or never changing it. So it will not lock the rear end but still function as an open diff. Worn out clutch in a transmission does not cause the transmission to explode like you claim the G80 does. So what in the G80 "explodes" that so many people claim that it does.
The same stuff that breaks in open diffs when a spinning wheel suddenly catches traction- the teeth on side gears and spider gears, spider gear cross-shafts, and the differential case itself, not to mention the stubs of broken axles stuck in the side gear internal splines.
After all, that's all a Gov-Lock is- an open diff with a couple of clutch packs and a governor.
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Haha, oh so true, especially out west, I've seen my fair share of $80,000 built Jeeps and 4Runners that are doing the same trails I used to do in a Honda Civic 20 years ago.
Been there, done that, would prefer not to anytime soon or ever again. 114F in the shade, closer to 150F in the open sun of Death Valley, somewhere around Saline Valley Rd on weekday in mid July, front suspension broke, took an hour to rig it so i was able to drive 3 hours to where my cell phone actually worked. Got a HAM radio after that so i could at least ask airplanes flying overhead to send some help my way if need be.
YES, YES and YES, at least AT or preferably MT 8-10ply tires with reinforced sidewalls are a must if you are going out alone, have a spare and know how to change it and always let someone know where you are going if you can not get anyone to come with you.
Everyone says that they blow up, they don't, they get molested and destroyed unknowingly. GM dealers recommend to replace G80 when there is any sign of wear on the clutch plates, unnecessary, I had mine for 270k miles, with 170k of hard off road abuse, G80 worked as it should even with completely worn clutch plates.
When you go crazy with the gas pedal, G80 locks and snaps axles, I have some pics of that a couple posts above. That will not happen with stock tires, they don't have the traction to do that. Now double the weight of your tire, bump that 29" OEM tire to a 35" or 37" as in my case and keep those stock 3.73 gears, oh snap, even the 4130 chromolly criogenically hardened axles will snap.
Spider gears in the G80 fail, just like any spider gears in an open diff or an LSD. Most people that own a GM truck don't even know that they have a locking diff in their truck, and the ones that do know it's there don't know anything about it, just like resident master mechanic MTVR that was born ASE certified.
When spider gears fail, they break off into little pieces. In an open diff it's not a big deal, because the ring and pinion is so much harder metal that the broken spider gear pieces are just ground into little pieces and it's not a big deal.
G80 has a lot of small moving parts in it that are almost all necessary for it's proper operation. Spider gear pieces get in there and interfere with the intended function of all those fancy parts or break them.
Spider gear teeth broke and mangled the "locking" mechanism of G80. The truck still drove fine, like it should but made weird sounds once in a while.
4-5 100 yard sections of 4x4 low, 40 miles of 35mph 2wd trail driving and 170 miles of 65mph highway cruising, with truck driving as it should until I put it in reverse to back into my driveway it drove like it should and did not make any new or unusual sounds.
So the spider gears fail and break off, drivers fail to realize the severity of the situation and continue driving the truck normally just like I did and KILL the G80 completely unknowingly because they just do not know what is actually is going on inside the diff cover and the stoutly built G80 is strong enough to get them off the trail or in my case over 200 miles after failure, all the way to my house.
G80 does not spontaneously explode, it is the dumbing down term that GM mechanics use to save themselves the trouble of actually explaining to the customer that the diff was grossly abused and driven to the point of catastrophic failure by the consumer. Also, taking the G80 apart just to replace the spider gears is a major pain in the butt and GM techs refuse to do it, and add on clutch place replacement which brings the price of labor to the price of replacing the G80 with another G80, much less expensive LSD or open diff or putting in a locking differential, all of which are 30 minute drop and go options.
I absolutely love the G80, I carry a spare G80 that I picked up on eBay for $50 shipped and an extra half axle on longer off road trips to very remote areas, however I now have a Detroit Locker and will never have anything else in any of my off road trucks.
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