2017 Chevy Colorado ZR2

[Clutch]

You're still talking about 25 year old gearboxes. Price out something new - 6 speed.

I can get a rebuilt TH350 from any number of reputable sources for under $700, which has about as much correlation to a new truck with an automatic as your example does.

Toyota still uses the W59 in the 4 cylinder Tacoma. Anyway Clutch said /he/ could get a rebuilt transmission for $1K and that's true, he has a R150F in his truck.
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Yep...Dave is on it! Still can get the basic 5 speed manny in the Tacoma SR, brandy new!

Sad seeing the basic truck disappearing. What happened? I want cheap to own and repair...those days are slipping away.

Dude, Aussie Hilux specs:
2.8L turbo diesel
7.3L/100km = 33 MPG

Even their 1GR-FE gets better mileage than ours, 11.5 L/100km = 20.5 MPG.

The payload, stick shift availability, all of that is well hashed. The choice is clear, either Toyota needs to sell Clutch and me a XtraCab D-4D Hilux or we need to move down under.

Yep, there is...why we can't have that, I don't know. Fluff sells more than in the US than practicality, apparently.

 

[Err]

Haha, this thread is off the rails with brand loyalty wars and manual vs automatic wars!!!

Funny stuff.

Back to this truck. I'm not in the market and I'm about as brand agnostic as they come. I like what I see. I had an '09 H3T right before Hummer went belly up. I kinda see the ZR2 as the much improved second coming of that truck. The H3T had the same basic layout, to it's credit, it did offer a 5 spd MT. On the other hand the H3T was under powered, certainly no diesel option, and had a low-end highway queen suspension setup. The ZR2 seems to bring back all the goodies and pair it with a much getter engine and suspension system.

Note on the suspension. In the world of dampers spool valves are the top tier of the valving systems. Most of your so-called fancy shocks that most of us would upgrade to use poppet style valves which, while great, are not at the same level as spool valves. The Multimatics may or may not prove be reliable or valved correctly but this is a big step up from your basic Fox and King offerings. Bust out your Google-foo and do a little reading. You'll see that even the shocks on the venerable Raptor pale in comparison to this technology.

Also note the towing and payload reductions are simply the result of tuning the rear spring and damper rates for compliance offroad based on an unloaded or lightly loaded bed. This is the same as with the Raptors and there's nothing stopping you from tweaking the suspension setup to your desired load. It's really no big deal guys.

I do wonder how great the small diesel will be. I've had a couple modern diesels and so far the torque is cool but they have been consistently more expensive and less reliable than their gasser counter parts. This ain't no 4BT/6BT (for better or worse) and time will tell whether it's really all that great or not.

 

[RF2200]

I think GM (or any other auto manuf) knows a thing or two about tire sizing. They didn't miss the ball. They know enthusiasts like to tinker and mod their trucks. Smaller tires won't be a deal breaker for the majority of the market audience. Dare I say there will be zero sale-fails due to the stock tire size?

Not so. The determining factor for tire size in vehicles like this is not engineering but government regulations for things like bumper height compatibility, fuel economy and crash test standards. Towing standards and payload are also affected when tire size changes. Look at the Ram Power Wagon. You can fit 37" tires on that truck in stock form. I have 37" KO2 tires on my stock 2015 Laramie PW. Talk to a RAM engineer and they will say that the PW should ship with the 315/70R17 Duratrac, not the 285/70R17 that it ships with. Why does it ship with the smaller tire tire? Because if it had the 35s it would not be in compliance with maximum rear bumper height regulations and other government regulations. And it would not cleanly fit in the spare tire space under the bed, but the real deal killer was the government regulations.

Gone are the days when manufacturers that vehicles were built to meet a NEED. They are now simply built to meet a REGULATION.

The correct tires are the most important thing about a vehicle like this. More important than fancy dampers.

 

[RF2200]

Where's the compact truck that gets 30+ mpg, manny trans, and a 2000lbs payload?

My Land Rover 110 meets all of those requirements.

 

[Clutch]

My Land Rover 110 meets all of those requirements.

Yes it does. But you can't buy one brand new.

I don't think any of the US spec trucks can meet those requirements.

 

[RF2200]

I had an '09 H3T right before Hummer went belly up. I kinda see the ZR2 as the much improved second coming of that truck.

I do wonder how great the small diesel will be. I've had a couple modern diesels and so far the torque is cool but they have been consistently more expensive and less reliable than their gasser counter parts. This ain't no 4BT/6BT (for better or worse) and time will tell whether it's really all that great or not.

Thought of the H3T with Adventure package as well when I saw this truck.

Modern diesel engines are marvels of engineering, but the finicky emissions systems really let them down. The best option would be something like the Cummins 2.8L Ethos engine which runs on Ethanol with the duty cycle of the diesel but requires none of the emissions equipment, has more power per unit of displacement, and costs less per mile to operate. 250 HP and 450 FT/LB out of 2.8L with the duty cycle of a commercial diesel engine is impressive. The 6.7L Cummins with that duty cycle only makes 600 FT/LB. http://www.dieselprogress.com/July-2014/A-Cummins-Gasoline-Engine/#.WC9YSGWPnzI

 

[Clutch]

Also note the towing and payload reductions are simply the result of tuning the rear spring and damper rates for compliance offroad based on an unloaded or lightly loaded bed. This is the same as with the Raptors and there's nothing stopping you from tweaking the suspension setup to your desired load. It's really no big deal guys.

Yeah it is a play truck...I don't think anyone is saying it isn't, other than it would be nice to have one specced that you can actually load up and use. Seems like a waste of that diesel engine.

I do wonder how great the small diesel will be. I've had a couple modern diesels and so far the torque is cool but they have been consistently more expensive and less reliable than their gasser counter parts. This ain't no 4BT/6BT (for better or worse) and time will tell whether it's really all that great or not.

Time will tell, do think it is funny that people will turn their nose up at the Ram diesel, but not the Chevy...which is basically the same engine.

 

[RF2200]

there's nothing stopping you from tweaking the suspension setup to your desired load. It's really no big deal guys.

Until you are in an accident with a fatality and you were loaded over manufacturer's stated GVW

 

[RF2200]

I am sure you have all seen the ZH2? Which is their fuel cell prototype vehicle. https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/03/c...ll-army-test-truck-is-made-for-modular-power/

If actually implemented with the military the fuel cell would likely run on ethanol, not compressed hydrogen, due to safety, logistics and cost as Nissan has done with their recently released fuel cell technology. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104467_nissan-takes-a-different-approach-to-fuel-cells-ethanol

 

[p nut]

Not so. The determining factor for tire size in vehicles like this is not engineering but government regulations for things like bumper height compatibility, fuel economy and crash test standards. Towing standards and payload are also affected when tire size changes. Look at the Ram Power Wagon. You can fit 37" tires on that truck in stock form. I have 37" KO2 tires on my stock 2015 Laramie PW. Talk to a RAM engineer and they will say that the PW should ship with the 315/70R17 Duratrac, not the 285/70R17 that it ships with. Why does it ship with the smaller tire tire? Because if it had the 35s it would not be in compliance with maximum rear bumper height regulations and other government regulations. And it would not cleanly fit in the spare tire space under the bed, but the real deal killer was the government regulations.

Gone are the days when manufacturers that vehicles were built to meet a NEED. They are now simply built to meet a REGULATION.

The correct tires are the most important thing about a vehicle like this. More important than fancy dampers.

Right. So how is it they missed the ball? Why spec it with bigger tires that skirts the line on regulation and ends up costing them (or the customer) more?
_
Also, "Correct tires" can be so many different things, especially to enthusiasts. (i.e. I do not want Duratracs on my trucks. I'd sell them first thing. I'd rather have the cost of the truck be less and fitted with smaller p-rated tires).

 

[RF2200]

Right. So how is it they missed the ball? Why spec it with bigger tires that skirts the line on regulation and ends up costing them (or the customer) more?
_
Also, "Correct tires" can be so many different things, especially to enthusiasts. (i.e. I do not want Duratracs on my trucks. I'd sell them first thing. I'd rather have the cost of the truck be less and fitted with smaller p-rated tires).

Because people don't want a truck with lockers front and rear with 31" tires. It is not what sells. The G-Wagen has that setup and off-roaders bemoan that setup. No one is going to buy a $45,000 truck with lockers front and rear with p-rated tires. The Rubicon comes with 32" tires and almost everyone throws them away in favor of larger tires. Show me one Jeep Rubicon with P-rated tires.

 

[rkj__]

Because people don't want a truck with lockers front and rear with 31" tires. It is not what sells. The G-Wagen has that setup and off-roaders bemoan that setup. No one is going to buy a $45,000 truck with lockers front and rear with p-rated tires. The Rubicon comes with 32" tires and almost everyone throws them away in favor of larger tires.

Those 32" Rubicon take-offs would be a good fit for the Colorado. To fit bigger than a 32" tire on a Z71, you either need a 5" lift, or to hack away at the rear of the front wheel wells pretty aggressively.

 

[p nut]

Because people don't want a truck with lockers front and rear with 31" tires. It is not what sells. The G-Wagen has that setup and off-roaders bemoan that setup. No one is going to buy a $45,000 truck with lockers front and rear with p-rated tires. The Rubicon comes with 32" tires and almost everyone throws them away in favor of larger tires.

Again, it's not a deal killer. You yourself went bigger 37" tires on your PW. Almost everyone will have their different tastes. So why equip a truck with a specific tire that a good portion will swap out anyway? Do you have any data that support sale-fails on a Rubicon or "X" vehicle because of OE tires?? Do you really think people that want a mid-size diesel truck with front and rear lockers will put their wallets back in their pockets because of tires? That's silly.
_
G wagens are a different category. How many do you know that buys a $100k car to off-road? Not too many, I'd wager. Hardcore offroaders isn't their target market.

 

[RF2200]

To fit bigger than a 32" tire on a Z71, you either need a 5" lift, or to hack away at the rear of the front wheel wells pretty aggressively.

But you don't on the Jeep. You guys are forgetting that Jeep is coming out with a pickup next year that will compete directly with this. It is going to have a diesel. Going to have lockers. And is going to be able to fit at least 33" tires with no modification. This is why they missed the ball.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The 80 series Land Cruiser had 31" (275/70R16) SL-rated tires with the optional FR and RR lockers. I don't think anyone really bemoans the G-wagen or the Cruiser, they are excellent starting points. I like that Chevy put a legitimate tire in a perfectly useable size tire on the truck. I only run a 32" tire on my truck, I wasn't looking to fill the wheel well to the point of rubbing or not leaving room for chains. Not everyone wants to build a monster truck for rock crawling. I'm not a fan of the Duratrac but I wouldn't have a problem running it until one failed.