2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 3.0L EcoDiesel

[Metcalf]

For smaller vehicles to be able to tow heavier trailers, it would take sophisticated active suspensions. If they were set up to handle 1000-1500 pounds of hitch weight, they would be nearly uncontrollable when not towing. For the vehicle to "ride nice" and hold the road when not towing,they need supple suspensions ....... supple suspensions do not lend themselves to high hitch weights. Not to mention what a short wheelbase does to towing handling.....

I don't think it has to be that fancy....

The current Jeep Grand Cherokee is rated to tow 6200-7200lbs. Similar engine, trans, vehicle size, wheelbase, payload, and vehicle weight.
That is nearly a 2x improvement on what we see with the JLU platform, and inline with the JT program.

 

[malibubts]

I can't wait until people start getting the 3.0 Wrangler and put 35s and some weight on it to see what that does to mileage. If it can hold 25 highway, that's a game changer for me.

-Dan

It should still be able to make about 25 with load and 35s without much issue.

I’ve got the EcoDiesel in my Ram on 34s and can easily get that sill after my 2 inch lift, 34s, and gear. Granted it’s not an exact comparison, but should be in the same neighborhood.

 

[Dan Grec]

It should still be able to make about 25 with load and 35s without much issue.

I’ve got the EcoDiesel in my Ram on 34s and can easily get that sill after my 2 inch lift, 34s, and gear. Granted it’s not an exact comparison, but should be in the same neighborhood.

That's great news, thanks!
How do you like the EcoDiesel and 8 speed combination?

Have you ever found much info on running it on lower quality diesel? I've tried to do some research and have not come up with much. Obviously it would need a computer flash to get rid of EGR and the DPF system entirely (not difficult) but I wonder what the high sulphur diesel will do to the high pressure diesel pump and the injectors.
I've been meaning to research what other vehicle globally this engine goings into and try to get more details...
I did see them in Grand Chrekees in countries like Uganda and Kenya, so maybe there is a slightly more tolerant engine in different countries.
I asked Banks at SEMA how they ran theirs on JP8, but they didn't give me a real answer. Not sure if they didn't want to, or couldn't remember.

Cheers,
-Dan

 

[Rbertalotto]

You are getting 35mpg with a 1500 RAM pickup? That is simply amazing. That is the kind of mileage the TDI VWs get......

 

[Dan Grec]

You are getting 35mpg with a 1500 RAM pickup? That is simply amazing. That is the kind of mileage the TDI VWs get......

Re-reading it, I'm pretty sure he meant he gets 25mpg, and even if you put 35 inch tires on a wrangler it should be doable.

-Dan

 

[Rbertalotto]

Thanks....I just watched a number of youtube videos on MPG testing on the 1500 ECO Diesel and the Ford F150 small Power Stroke...they both get 25+/- mpg non towing and 13 +/- mpg towing a 7000 trailer. This massive difference in fuel needed to tow 7000 pounds concerns me with longevity of these little diesels. They are really working hard to tow that weight. The last few trucks I've owned (2006 RAM 2500 5.9L diesel and 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L Gas) are both 18mpg non towing and 11-13mpg towing 7000 pounds. Much less difference in fuel needed to do the work. More inportantly, both these bigger engines are under 2500 rpm when towing. These little diesels are doing 3500 for 50mph on an uphill. Interesting.....

 

[SSF556]

Diesel rules! Merry Christmas.

 

[malibubts]

That's great news, thanks!
How do you like the EcoDiesel and 8 speed combination?

Have you ever found much info on running it on lower quality diesel? I've tried to do some research and have not come up with much. Obviously it would need a computer flash to get rid of EGR and the DPF system entirely (not difficult) but I wonder what the high sulphur diesel will do to the high pressure diesel pump and the injectors.
I've been meaning to research what other vehicle globally this engine goings into and try to get more details...
I did see them in Grand Chrekees in countries like Uganda and Kenya, so maybe there is a slightly more tolerant engine in different countries.
I asked Banks at SEMA how they ran theirs on JP8, but they didn't give me a real answer. Not sure if they didn't want to, or couldn't remember.

Cheers,
-Dan

To confirm the questions by a few others I meant what you had suggested. Even with 35 inch tires and a camping load I’d think 25 MPG shouldn’t be much of a problem to hit on the highway. You won’t get that I don’t think for a whole trip, but at least the highway segments.

Very happy with it so far, coming up on 5 years and 85k miles. Fuel economy targets are a bit lower on the Ram, 19/27 I believe, I had no problem hitting that stock. I did lose about 2 MPGs with the bigger tires and lift though. I can still pull down about 25 to 26 on an all highway trip and between 22 to 24 on a typical camping trip. Theoretically the Wrangler would do a bit better not having the extra weight but we’ll have to see.

My only real complaint is the open recall right now on the EGR Cooler that could cause a fire. Not a great situation to be in with no fix at the moment, just hoping they get that sorted quickly.

FWIW the EPA here in the states has shut down a couple of the big tuning companies in the past few months for this engine. Might be pretty tough to get your hands on a way to remove the EGR/DPF codes. I also couldn’t tell you much about the fuel, I’d guess you’d need some more filtration but I think that’s the case with newer diesels. Any of those newer Bosch pumps really don’t like bad fuel.

 

[Dan Grec]

To confirm the questions by a few others I meant what you had suggested. Even with 35 inch tires and a camping load I’d think 25 MPG shouldn’t be much of a problem to hit on the highway. You won’t get that I don’t think for a whole trip, but at least the highway segments.

Very happy with it so far, coming up on 5 years and 85k miles. Fuel economy targets are a bit lower on the Ram, 19/27 I believe, I had no problem hitting that stock. I did lose about 2 MPGs with the bigger tires and lift though. I can still pull down about 25 to 26 on an all highway trip and between 22 to 24 on a typical camping trip. Theoretically the Wrangler would do a bit better not having the extra weight but we’ll have to see.

My only real complaint is the open recall right now on the EGR Cooler that could cause a fire. Not a great situation to be in with no fix at the moment, just hoping they get that sorted quickly.

FWIW the EPA here in the states has shut down a couple of the big tuning companies in the past few months for this engine. Might be pretty tough to get your hands on a way to remove the EGR/DPF codes. I also couldn’t tell you much about the fuel, I’d guess you’d need some more filtration but I think that’s the case with newer diesels. Any of those newer Bosch pumps really don’t like bad fuel.

Thanks for all the info!

Yes, I heard the EPA had really cracked down on the guys flashing the computers and currently there isn't really a solution. I'm hoping something will pop up again for "off road only use".

As for filtration I certainly would add an extremely fine filter to the lines. I suppose sooner or later someone will just have to try it and hope for the best

Hopefully I an also dig up any info about if some parts of this engine are different in different parts of the world.

Cheers & Merry Christmas!!

-Dan

 

[roving1]

This would have been a dream a decade ago. There is no way I would take one of these into the bush now. Maybe if I had access to full OEM diagnostics or if it was fully deleted or running stand alone engine management. There are just too many things on these that will put you into a nearly undrivable state.

Money wise it doesn't make sense this to buy it and then instantly trash the warranty.

If I am going to be in the hook for all repairs I would rather do a resto-mod build with a much simpler engine.

I don't think people realize just how many things can put these into reduced power mode and require OEM equipment and procedures to convince the vehicle it's emissions compliant and get it back to normal. I literally have no idea what you are supposed to do out on the trail when that happens, let alone in a country with no real dealer support.

The days of every Bubba on the internet offering delete kits are fast disappearing and OEMs are massively ramping up the protections to their own software. It is to the point OEMs can barely change their own software without bricking the modules and even when they don't the internal process for getting the new VIN specific software is very difficult and controlled.

I love diesel power characteristics but there is just no way I would personally consider one of these for remote independent travel.

 

[T-Willy]

There are just too many things on these that will put you into a nearly undrivable state.

I don't think people realize just how many things can put these into reduced power mode and require OEM equipment and procedures to convince the vehicle it's emissions compliant and get it back to normal. I literally have no idea what you are supposed to do out on the trail when that happens, let alone in a country with no real dealer support.

You say "things" -- can you be more specific?

Have such problems been common with the Ram diesel?

 

[MOguy]

You say "things" -- can you be more specific?

Have such problems been common with the Ram diesel?

Since this thread is about Jeeps, here is one.
Some how this jeep (JKU) died in this "puddle". It would start but die once you but it in gear. He couldn't even winch himself out. He never spun his tires or seemed to get stuck, the Jeep just died. It was a wet muddy that day and other JKs had issues with their power steering and their disconnects. None of the YJs, TJs, or XJs had issues. He changed the idler pulley the next day and it ran fine. Not sure what took him to the idler pulley or why changing it made the Jeep run.

That is me and then my TJ behind winching him out.

 

[roving1]

You say "things" -- can you be more specific?

Have such problems been common with the Ram diesel?

Sure.

Basically anything that actually goes wrong, or if the computer thinks something is wrong will send it into various stages of power limiting up to and including barely being able to get the truck to move. DEF injector gets crystal deposits and the NOX reduction doesn't match what is expected, reduced power emissions fault and MIL that will need to have a regen done hooked up to OEM diag computer to reset. DPF giving strange back pressure reading from what is expected? Same thing. It doesn't even have to be clogged. If the computer thinks there is too little back pressure it will still trigger a MIL because the DPF matrix might have cracks and then not be in in emission compliance. Variable cooling paths depending on load, up to 8 NOX sensors on some of these engines. Computer thinks ther is something wrong with your DEF level or DEF quality, emissions fault. The complexity of these engines now is mind boggling. But all these diesel emission related codes have a federally mandated structure for setting a MIL and eventually shutting down. There are so many points of failure that lead to this path on the latest diesels. Most gas engine are not going to do this until they are about to damage themselves or something has really gone mechanically or electrically wrong. Gas engines do not have the same restrictions and requirements...yet anyways.

I was a life long diesel fan and a guy absolutely pining for a diesel Jeep. I also was NOT one of those guys complaining when the first DPFs and SCR systems started coming to be. But the way things are now, for everyone, not just Jeep and this engine I don't think it is worth it. 5 years of being around the latest diesels at work has completely crushed any desire I have for any diesel in a light vehicle. Some of the bigger engines with commercial variants in heavier vehicles maybe. Their commercial use seems to lead to more robust compliance techniques.

You are also not going to get away with flashing these and keeping your warranty. The latest gen stuff even if you swap out to a clean ECM before you take it to the dealer for an issue another module in the system is going to rat you out and void your warranty.

I hope I am wrong and these are awesome and reliable under duress but I am not confident. For sure for a global vehicle no way, not with out a complete hardware and software retrofit which is going to be extremely difficult with the EPA coming after the aftermarket.

 

[T-Willy]

Sure.

Basically anything that actually goes wrong, or if the computer thinks something is wrong will send it into various stages of power limiting up to and including barely being able to get the truck to move. DEF injector gets crystal deposits and the NOX reduction doesn't match what is expected, reduced power emissions fault and MIL that will need to have a regen done hooked up to OEM diag computer to reset. DPF giving strange back pressure reading from what is expected? Same thing. It doesn't even have to be clogged. If the computer thinks there is too little back pressure it will still trigger a MIL because the DPF matrix might have cracks and then not be in in emission compliance. Variable cooling paths depending on load, up to 8 NOX sensors on some of these engines. Computer thinks ther is something wrong with your DEF level or DEF quality, emissions fault. The complexity of these engines now is mind boggling. But all these diesel emission related codes have a federally mandated structure for setting a MIL and eventually shutting down. There are so many points of failure that lead to this path on the latest diesels. Most gas engine are not going to do this until they are about to damage themselves or something has really gone mechanically or electrically wrong. Gas engines do not have the same restrictions and requirements...yet anyways.

I was a life long diesel fan and a guy absolutely pining for a diesel Jeep. I also was NOT one of those guys complaining when the first DPFs and SCR systems started coming to be. But the way things are now, for everyone, not just Jeep and this engine I don't think it is worth it. 5 years of being around the latest diesels at work has completely crushed any desire I have for any diesel in a light vehicle. Some of the bigger engines with commercial variants in heavier vehicles maybe. Their commercial use seems to lead to more robust compliance techniques.

You are also not going to get away with flashing these and keeping your warranty. The latest gen stuff even if you swap out to a clean ECM before you take it to the dealer for an issue another module in the system is going to rat you out and void your warranty.

I hope I am wrong and these are awesome and reliable under duress but I am not confident. For sure for a global vehicle no way, not with out a complete hardware and software retrofit which is going to be extremely difficult with the EPA coming after the aftermarket.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[foxhunter]

Roving1 makes good arguments. But I can’t help myself. I am addicted to torque. Passed the anemically powered 09 Rubicon on to my son. I’m ordering the diesel Rubicon as soon as my wife can settle on the color(the only option she gets to choose)