2021 Overland Explorer Vehicles (OEV) CAMP-HBE pop-up flatbed pickup camper (renamed the "Hudson Bay" for 2023 model year)
- Thread starter Chadx
- Start date
...or the HBE with the Aterra interior?
That meld would be impossible for me to resist. I'm currently sitting on a thin fence between the Aterra and Hudson Bay (formerly Camp-HBE). My ongoing constructive input for the Hudson Bay is that it needs the showerpan redesigned (again) to make it lower/usable, needs an option other than a huge 164 liter fridge (half the size is plenty), needs redesigned so more of the "heavy" is at the front of the camper (water tank, batteries, appliances, etc.). Batteries moving forward is a good start. Heater (or at least the heater outlet) would be better located low in the main open space rather than in the leg space of the dinette. I'd like to see the (former)toilet cabinet narrower smaller now that the toilet location has moved so a chest fridge could fit between it and the galley cabinet. And even better if the galley drawers/storage and current fridge location were swapped. If one wanted to use a chest fridge in the "step-up space", you could do a fridge-delete and the fridge space could be setup as storage while still having the drawers where the fridge is currently located. This is not to say the current design/layout isn't great; These are just design preferences/adjustments that would make it work even better for us personally.
The Aterra interior layout and the location/function of interior shower, fridge, water tank, heater, batteries, etc. are ideal for us, but, while I love the idea of a hardside (ease of setup, better sound deadening) and would be willing to pay the gas mileage penalty over a pop-up, we still drive tree-lined mountain trails every weekend, with our Camp-X, that the Aterra (or any hardsided camper) would not clear overhead.
Though the trapezoidal roof on the Aterra makes it much better than a squared-off hardside would be. The last half of this season, I have intentionally watched and noted how many times per trip we drive under/near tree branches where a hardside would turn us back or require branch cutting. Turning back would eliminate many of the loops we find ourselves able to do now with a pop-up.Conclusion...The right meld of these two campers would find us in a new camper! Be that a redesign of Hudson Bay interior or a pop-top Aterra.
Hey, how about a Aterra Hard-sided, pop-top.
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I agree that the floorplan of the Hudson Bay and the distribution of the components is somewhat chaotic. This is basically a 8ft camper without a proper wet bath and no visible logic in placing the technical components. Chad's ideas make sense and I have ideas too. But whatever they do it should include a wetbath, possibly in the entrance like in the Basecamp. I would also suggest to concentrate batteries, tank etc in the front part of the cabin. Maybe it would be a good idea to make a fresh start with a blank piece of paper.
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
That meld would be impossible for me to resist. I'm currently sitting on a thin fence between the Aterra and Hudson Bay (formerly Camp-HBE). My ongoing constructive input for the Hudson Bay is that it needs the showerpan redesigned (again) to make it lower/usable, needs an option other than a huge 164 liter fridge (half the size is plenty), needs redesigned so more of the "heavy" is at the front of the camper (water tank, batteries, appliances, etc.). Batteries moving forward is a good start. Heater (or at least the heater outlet) would be better located low in the main open space rather than in the leg space of the dinette. I'd like to see the (former)toilet cabinet narrower smaller now that the toilet location has moved so a chest fridge could fit between it and the galley cabinet. And even better if the galley drawers/storage and current fridge location were swapped. If one wanted to use a chest fridge in the "step-up space", you could do a fridge-delete and the fridge space could be setup as storage while still having the drawers where the fridge is currently located. This is not to say the current design/layout isn't great; These are just design preferences/adjustments that would make it work even better for us personally.
The Aterra interior layout and the location/function of interior shower, fridge, water tank, heater, batteries, etc. are ideal for us, but, while I love the idea of a hardside (ease of setup, better sound deadening) and would be willing to pay the gas mileage penalty over a pop-up, we still drive tree-lined mountain trails every weekend, with our Camp-X, that the Aterra (or any hardsided camper) would not clear overhead.
Conclusion...The right meld of these two campers would find us in a new camper! Be that a redesign of Hudson Bay interior or a pop-top Aterra.
Hey, how about a Aterra Hard-sided, pop-top.
I agree with you on height. I need to measure mine (will try tonight), but ideally I'd rather have shorter OAH than where I'm at, however the lack of setup with the Aterra is money; open the side door and you're in and cooking or grabbing something out of a drawer/cubby or hopping right into bed. It's SO easy to use, and you can stuff 3-4 people in it without even being cramped.
2 things on combining campers;
#1 You have a good relationship with OEV, and they seem to listen, so push the Aterra interior to them PLEASE. (I've already informed friends of mine who are the local OVE dealer that I'd buy an OEV poptop w/ Aterra interior right away. They said they'd run it up the flagpole).
#2 I've heard thru the grapevine that ATO won't be building any poptop Aterra's (hardsided poptop would be sweet, I'd be in for one. Many companies already doing it in the topper/RTT market), so that leaves #1 as the only possibility.
Sounds like OEV could sell 2 of the new HBE-terra SW's right away.
I concur.
Use the entryway as a bathroom; it's always a great use of space.
OEV makes great stuff, it just doesn't seem like they gave a whole lot of thought to their interior design like ATO did, more like OEV just copied FWC or the like.
I spent some time in the Aterra at an expo this summer. I really liked the space and layout, especially the 3 windows surrounding the dinette…but the upper bed was cramped and coffin like compared to OEV. The toilet was weirdly located under the dinette seat (it didn’t slide out). It was also very difficult to get into the dinette seat opposite the toilet because the table was in the way. The “stair/drawers” slide out to get into bed was not very stable feeling. And finally, the Aterra craftsmanship was not as high quality as OEV (imho).
A hard shell HBE sounds intriguing as long as it has a full wet bath!!
Or OEV should just bring back the girlgoneglamping flatbed model (x-10?)
A hard shell HBE sounds intriguing as long as it has a full wet bath!!
Or OEV should just bring back the girlgoneglamping flatbed model (x-10?)
I thought a little about chadx ideas. I think it would be fairly easy to do without changing the design too much. The new slide out toilet is a good start.
1. Make the kitchen narrower. It is 26´ right now, 20´ would be enough.
2. Add a cabinet east- west on the front wall (similar to the Aterra) with water tank underneath (like Aterra) and drawers or a chest fridge on top. At night the king bed would extend over it.
3. The former toilet cabinet wiuld be smaller (about 24´x 24´) and would have a slide out shower pan . Thus the entrance could be used alternativly for the slide out toilet or the slide out shower pan. Designing a slide out shower pan is not difficult. I have seen slide out sinks or shower pans in European campers.
1. Make the kitchen narrower. It is 26´ right now, 20´ would be enough.
2. Add a cabinet east- west on the front wall (similar to the Aterra) with water tank underneath (like Aterra) and drawers or a chest fridge on top. At night the king bed would extend over it.
3. The former toilet cabinet wiuld be smaller (about 24´x 24´) and would have a slide out shower pan . Thus the entrance could be used alternativly for the slide out toilet or the slide out shower pan. Designing a slide out shower pan is not difficult. I have seen slide out sinks or shower pans in European campers.
Ninelitetrip
Well-known member
2023 Changes
Quite a few changes, electric, heater, lav, batteries, storage, switches, shower pan, shower pan drain location....
Shower pan was lowered in 2022? On reason it could not go lower was cabling that ran on the backside of the 6.75 HBE to the batteries. I asked about moving the the shower pan to the entrance like the Base CAMP. Unable due to the design of the current floor system on the HBE. So is this still the V2 of the shower pan, or now V# being even lower for 2023?
Quite a few changes, electric, heater, lav, batteries, storage, switches, shower pan, shower pan drain location....
Shower pan was lowered in 2022? On reason it could not go lower was cabling that ran on the backside of the 6.75 HBE to the batteries. I asked about moving the the shower pan to the entrance like the Base CAMP. Unable due to the design of the current floor system on the HBE. So is this still the V2 of the shower pan, or now V# being even lower for 2023?
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Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
This was a dealbreaker for us. We're a family of three, so both the cabover and dinette or other secondary bunk will always be in use, and the ability for any one of us to deal with a 2am pee-break without having to get anyone else out of bed is a pretty bedrock criterion for any vehicle solution. We've done 2-week trips where we've barely (or haven't at all) used our porta-potti, but that option needs to be available every night.
I also don't love that the Wrappon toilet is the only choice, as the ongoing cost of operation and need to stock replacement supplies kind of rubs me the wrong way, but the fact that you can't use it without lifting up the dinette was the killer.
Ninelitetrip
Well-known member
When I spoke to him back in the spring I got the sense that it came down to engineering resources, the needed CAD work, and production. The jump in 2022 price from HBE to BASE CAMP SW was sizable. I'm curious to see what a hardwall HBE entails.
Ninelitetrip
Well-known member
Good stuff. When is the HBE Shell coming available, or the HBE with the Aterra interior?
The Tern Overland AterraXL trailer is interesting.....
They have addressed several of my concerns with this update!
The battery box being where it is now is a huge improvement. Owners can now expand to large capacity with the optional "double size" battery box or eliminate the box all together and have the entire storage closet floor available. Great for those that charge EV dirtbikes, Ebikes, fishing boat batteries, etc.
I was unsure of the whole "slide out toilet" thing from the glimpse in the exterior video, but after seeing the interior video, I really like it. It sliding out eliminates the need to pull off dinette cushions and remove the dinette table top (or put your elbows on it). This just moved ahead of the Aterra on my scoresheet.
The heater outlet is now not a leg cooker! Well done there. Blowing the heat out into the main space at floor level was a great redesign.
Shower pan still needs to be slammed all the way down to give reasonable head space. Probably not doable now that the heater vent runs through there. I don't think anything else is down there anymore, though, and this still seems the same as version 2 (which was a good improvement to headroom, but still not quite enough, particularly since the Hudson Bay roof is only 6'5" rather than 6'10" like the CAMP-X (Backcountry) slide in style campers. This is one of my lower priorities, though, since we normally shower outside and on the rare occasion we need to shower inside, I'll just get a short stool and have a sit down shower. Ha.
Some will probably like the USB outlets at the front of the bed. Low value for us, but nice to see them adding features that some want/need. Maybe it was just the video, but it made it look like there is now a couple inch gap between the mattress and front of the camper due to the USB outlet boxes. Maybe on production campers the mattress will be notched to go around those boxes as to not have that gab in front of the mattress.
Would still like to see the water tank at the front for better weight distribution.
One of my biggest concerns still remains; that refrigerator is much too large for a camper of this size. It is so oversized as to be taxing on the battery capacity particularly when it will usually be only 1/4 full, which means it will run even more. I can't imagine filling a 164liter fridge. We make our 65liter fridge even for 7 - 10 day trips. I'd say a 90liter would be a reasonable size for a camper the size of the Hudson Bay. Likely, that huge fridge is the reason the galley/countertop is so huge front to back; to fit the depth of that oversized fridge. If they downsized the fridge one size, it would still be plenty big and not so deep so the entire galley cabinet could be shrunk. I'll continue to campaign for at least an option for a smaller fridge with the remaining space converted to storage. Or a fridge delete option to make that entire space open or storage drawers on top and a slide out tray on the bottom for a chest fridge.
All in all, I really like these improvements. I too am excited to see the hard sided version. Really happy to see OEV keeps open to input from owners and potential owners and incorporates as they go.
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mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Not to take off topic from OEV too much, but for those comparing;
Ver2 Aterra's will have a slightly higher roof (2-3" IIRC?), and they're moving the 3 dinette windows up many inches (why they set my Ver1 windows down too low, I guess for eyeline sight when sitting in the dinette, but they would have been better raised a few inches).
Upper bed headroom when laying down is a bit tight, but that's because of the Pagoda roof style (I appreciate how the exterior doesn't look so damn tall if it were 90deg roofline).
Toilet and dinette table need work for sure. I already have plans to optimize mine. Basically the table needs to be able to swivel MUCH more than it can(['t] now, and the table footprint could also reduce in size (think folding table) so that access to the Wrappon isn't "******tting with arms rested on the dinette table), and access to the driver side cushion is also improved. Unsure how the current setup made it past heavy engineering/design/usage scrutiny.
Never had any issues with my 2 slide out stair steps feeling unstable; they're rock solid when I lock them back into place with the keeper keys.
I've scrutinized both OEV and Aterra and I can't see where one outpaces the other.
Back to ChadX getting OEV to offer an Aterra interior...
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Agreed and understood for a family of 3. Don't have that many people in mine so it works. Also note that so far I haven't used the Wrappon coagulant bags so my only cost is the white poly bag vs the coagulant packet and white bag. Will see how much the smell goes away by using the coagulant packet.
Yeah, anyone know the story behind this?
The cabover thickness did not increase and no subfloor is added to accommodate the underbed storage. That is the reason the underbed storage is only 2.5" thick; that is all the room there was without increasing the cabover thickness, which they did not want to do. An increase in closed height would be counter to the use case of a pop-top camper and would also have required completely new side panels. That would have resulted in a taller, less aerodynamic, more top heavy camper as a result whether the underbed storage option was chosen or not.
Of note in the video, the top of the mattress is now about even with the bottom of the front lift bracket where, without the underbed storage, the top of the mattress is it is about 2.5" lower.
Below are two images comparing mattress height, in a Hudson Bay, with and without underbed storage.
Arnold doesn't mention if the king bed extension/pullout is still available with the under bed storage, but now that I look at the below still-image that I captured from the video, it appears that there is not a drivers-side king bed pullout support in this particular example. I believe the latest king-bed pullout design requires a pullout surface only on the drivers side. On the passenger side, the mattress simply lays on the storage cabinet countertop. You can see the keyring rack has a black bracket that servers dual purpose(is also the support for the king bed slideout). I assume OEV will be able to mount the drivers side, king-bed-pullout support bracket on the drivers side wall; simply 2.5" higher up.
Further evidence that king bed option will still be available is that that the storage cabinet is 2.5" taller in this example so that countertop is even with the top of the underbed storage/bottom of the mattress. I'm confident that OEV will have two storage cabinet heights available (2.5" difference) and the appropriate one is used depending on if the camper is built with underbed storage or not. If all cabinets were this new 2.5" taller height, those that chose no underbed storage wouldn't be able to have a king pullout because the cabinet would be sticking up too high.
I'm very thankful they are not increasing the overall camper height and keeping underbed storage as an option rather than standard so owners can decide what's right for them. It would be a hard decision for us, though we are slightly in the group that would choose to order with no underbed storage.
Pros:
- Nice storage for flatter items (folded clothing, extra blankets, short storage trays/baskets with odds and ends, hunting/fishing equipment, etc.
- If underbed storage is not too fill up, in cool weather, may let warmed cabin air circulate and be a slight advantage over mattress laying directly on panel (though probably very minor).
Cons:
- 2.5" less headroom when in bed.
- Less room for pillows and bedding when the top is down (though I believe there will still be room for that).
With underbed storage:
Without underbed storage:
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Ninelitetrip
Well-known member
Agree, moving the water forward would be an advantage, couple hundred pounds forward of the axle, not aft.
Need to get info on that shower pan.
Moving to all Victron for all builds, interesting, However the move to the forward cabinets seems to have wiped out the three drawers, including the lower one that could be used as a step into the bed?
Where is the 110 outlet now? I''m fine with the new light switches, but the move under the counter means no switch at the entrance, not very convenient if outside the box.
Need a more in depth video.