2021 Overland Explorer Vehicles (OEV) CAMP-HBE pop-up flatbed pickup camper (renamed the "Hudson Bay" for 2023 model year)

[Crux]

Agreed, if HW HBE doesn’t materialize, might have to look to TC + BEAR.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

Agreed, if HW HBE doesn’t materialize, might have to look to TC + BEAR.

That is also what I am considering. I like their interior work.

 

[sn_85]

I have a 6.5' TC from Bear coming. I wish I could have gone 8' but I have a very short driveway and an 8' with departure angle would stick way out into the sidewalk. I'd probably get a letter from the HOA. I'd say BEAR is killing it on the interior game and one of the main reasons I went with them. Their interiors definitely bring a homey vibe to the camper. They did this on a 5' midsize camper on a Gladiator. Whhaaat...



The one thing that confuses me on the HW HBE is the cost premium. They had mentioned it's an additional $10K for a hard wall over soft wall. I would be curious to know what goes into that price premium. I understand you will get a full sized door, likely larger and perhaps more windows, and maybe some upper cabinets. To me that still doesn't equate to a $10K difference. The extra cost in material and extrusion shouldn't cost them that much either, with TC I can go from a 6.5' camper to 8' camper with only $1K difference for the extra composite material and extrusion. Likewise I would figure the cost difference is negligible since you are replacing soft wall material which has to be sewn, velcroed and installed into the camper. That fabric is pretty tough, durable along with being heavy and expensive. It also wouldn't need a pop-up mechanism or gas struts. Plus if you have a electronic lifting roof that costs more as well. Just something doesn't add up to the price premium given that a hard wall camper is likely less complicated to manufacture than a soft wall camper.

I'm just gonna leave this one right here though...

 

[Victorian]

I have a 6.5' TC from Bear coming. I wish I could have gone 8' but I have a very short driveway and an 8' with departure angle would stick way out into the sidewalk. I'd probably get a letter from the HOA. I'd say BEAR is killing it on the interior game and one of the main reasons I went with them. Their interiors definitely bring a homey vibe to the camper. They did this on a 5' midsize camper on a Gladiator. Whhaaat...



The one thing that confuses me on the HW HBE is the cost premium. They had mentioned it's an additional $10K for a hard wall over soft wall. I would be curious to know what goes into that price premium. I understand you will get a full sized door, likely larger and perhaps more windows, and maybe some upper cabinets. To me that still doesn't equate to a $10K difference. The extra cost in material and extrusion shouldn't cost them that much either, with TC I can go from a 6.5' camper to 8' camper with only $1K difference for the extra composite material and extrusion. Likewise I would figure the cost difference is negligible since you are replacing soft wall material which has to be sewn, velcroed and installed into the camper. That fabric is pretty tough, durable along with being heavy and expensive. Plus if you have a electronic lifting roof that costs more as well. Just something doesn't add up to the price premium given that a hard wall camper is likely less complicated to manufacture than a soft wall camper.

I'm just gonna leave this one right here though...

Bear certainly upped the game! You can tell that their background comes from building homes for the rich and famous around LA. Happy to have them as a partner.

 

[Ninelitetrip]

The one thing that confuses me on the HW HBE is the cost premium. They had mentioned it's an additional $10K for a hard wall over soft wall. I would be curious to know what goes into that price premium. I understand you will get a full sized door, likely larger and perhaps more windows, and maybe some upper cabinets. To me that still doesn't equate to a $10K difference. The extra cost in material and extrusion shouldn't cost them that much either, with TC I can go from a 6.5' camper to 8' camper with only $1K difference for the extra composite material and extrusion. Likewise I would figure the cost difference is negligible since you are replacing soft wall material which has to be sewn, velcroed and installed into the camper. That fabric is pretty tough, durable along with being heavy and expensive. It also wouldn't need a pop-up mechanism or gas struts. Plus if you have a electronic lifting roof that costs more as well. Just something doesn't add up to the price premium given that a hard wall camper is likely less complicated to manufacture than a soft wall camper.

I'm just gonna leave this one right here though...

Yeah that one left me puzzled. Right away 10K more but with no design in mind yet, no drawings, and no decision on using the extra space, just add 10K, which turned out to be inaccurate because they had decided one thing that was going to be added was an upgraded roof hatch which added 2k.

 

[Chadx]

The one thing that confuses me on the HW HBE is the cost premium. They had mentioned it's an additional $10K for a hard wall over soft wall. I would be curious to know what goes into that price premium.

As with most retail things, it is misleading to compare the actual materials and labor costs between different models. Any business will assign cost by perceived value and what the market will bear. That leaves the consumer to decide what is "worth it" to them.

This bears out with the cost jumps between the various OEV models:
CAMP-X/Backcountry: $44k USD/$57k CAD
HBE/Hudson Bay: $79k USD / $100k CAD (made up of camper @ $67k / $85k + flatbed @ $12k / $15k)
Base Camp: $160k / $203K
Summit: $263k / $350

I submit that each model up nearly doubles the cost to the consumer but there is far from twice the cost of materials and labor going up each model. The higher the level, the higher the ratio of profit for the manufacturer. Nothing wrong with that, and it's a model that ripples across most manufacturers (campers, automobiles, boats, electronics, houses, etc.) It's up to the consumer to determine if the value is worth it to them.

Such a value comparison sinks in a bit better using a pickup as an example. You can take a specific model/cab/drivetrain configuration (such as a 1500/crewcab/4x4) and pay $45k for the base model (which nowadays already includes Air conditioning, electric windows, etc.) or $90k for one with all the options. They have the exact same body/drivetrain, but one is twice as much. So you could buy two complete Base trim pickups for $90k or one for $90k that has options/accessories that decidedly don't add up to $45k of material cost or labor cost (heated/ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, nicer stereo, nicer display, bedliner, nicer wheels, different coating on grill/bumpers/mirrors, power adjustable seat/mirrors, fancy tailgate, memory buttons, etc.

I grapple with these types of decisions every time I go to make a big purchase because I, like many, have two conflicting parts of me; the practical, value-oriented, cheapskate part conflicts with the "I work hard/I deserve it and should enjoy the fruits of my labor, you can't bring it with you when you die, I like nice things" part. Ha. I'm having this internal discussion currently as we have a completely wonderful 2020 CAMP-X but are evaluating changing to a Hudson Bay in the next two or three years. 2x the cost, but about 1.3x to 1.5x more value if only the physical features are considered, in my opinion, but I really, really like those features so the emotional value has to be weighted...so the internal battle will rage on.

 

[mk216v]

Agreed on OVE models. They need a comparison function, as well as it'd be helpful if they'd stop changing model names every 6months. Makes it very confusing to keep up with what old model turned into what new model, and what's now updated/different.

Bear certainly upped the game! You can tell that their background comes from building homes for the rich and famous around LA. Happy to have them as a partner.

Is that a positive for a dynamic vehicle that's shakin' and rollin'? Lots of van builders out there who've come from building furniture, and they can't figure out how work with a dynamic structure such as a vehicle. Hopefully Bear has.

 

[mk216v]

Just spied the new OEV HighCountry pricing...gazooks! Sweet rig, and it looks awesome Photoshopped on my truck, but how are they gonna sell any of these when it appears to be a larger HBE HW or a smaller Summit without subframe/boxes?

And as stated above by sn_85, a HW should in some ways be not much more $ than an SW as its just larger panels for a HW, but no lifting roof/material/etc...so production would appear more straightforward for a HW than a SW.

An HBE SW is currently at $68k on one end (https://overlandex.com/8-camp-hbe/), a Summit is $263k on the other end (https://overlandex.com/summit-opt2/).
If an HBE HW is $78k let's say, I'm not sure where the extra $45k super-premium (WITHOUT ANY BATTERIES!!) resides for the HC HW; exterior tree-limb rack guards, 5 windows, full entry door, full wet bath(will the HBE HW have that?), bit longer upper cabinets, a larger dinette in the HC HW--yes, I've seen a spy picture of the interior...but at quick glance, basically a HC HW is just a bit longer than an HBE HW would be.
And the optional north-south sleeping setup in the HC HW is silly pricing, along the lines of sn_85 thoughts. I think someone at OEV may have fallen off the crazy train with some of this.

Posting this in the HW thread; https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...ry-hard-wall-camper-flatbed-and-fixed.237658/

 

[mk216v]

Today I explored and sat in a brand new '23 Hudson Bay (HB-SoftWall/SW) 6.75' at my local OEV dealer. Until now I haven't had an hour to fully inspect and just relax in it and take it all in. My quick feedback as to PROS and CONS in my opinion.

PROS;
-Build quality is by far the best I've seen in the segment. Very very impressive.
-Using true brass Sharkbite PEX-B fittings with crimp on connectors, AND BlueMonster heavy duty industrial grade thread sealant....versus the white plastic Sharkbite wannabe fittings that some other camper mfrs, ahem, are using which leak right off the bat, grrrr.
-Victron components. Enough said.
-Wiring is beautifully routed, secured to inner cabinets well.
-Definitely can see pride in workmanship.
-Even the bottom of the dinette table(when in bed mode) has little d-rings att'd to the bottom of it, with little straps securing the table to the inside of the dinette area so the table doesn't fly around while driving.
-Dinette feels spacious vs cramped in other mfr campers.

CONS;
-Switches used look like cheap red Rigid Industries rocker switches. There are SO many good looking switches out now (e-switch.com), that aren't bright red, so unsure why they didn't use something less "Pep Boys" here.
-Interior LED lighting is minimal and depressing. 2 round puck lights and some smaller lights from the Maxxair fan(s).
-The area behind the new slide-out potti (which has a sort of soft close feature--consider it a pro), under the pass rear dinette bench isn't maximized very well. There is a contained storage box accessed under the pass rear dinette bench cushion, and you'll see that box housing when you slide the potti tray out into the entry way. BUT, behind where the potti tray sits in stored position, there's a large void towards the departure angle of the rear cabin. And it appears the only way to access this unused area is to open up the pass rear exterior hatch, and somehow fish items in/out of this unused area, preferably when the potti tray is slide into the entryway. Why OEV didn't marry the contained storage box with this unused departure angle area, I have no idea. And then to add to this, there appears to be a small tunnel of storage room aft of the shower pan. No idea how you can easily access that, as you'd have to have some long arms to reach from the exterior hatch to this area. Both of these oversights seem odd to me. Pic below. Note; only a Thetford Cartridge toilet #C223CS is listed as an option, no Wrappon option. BaseCamp allows a Wrappon option, so hopefully OEV will allow the same in the HB-SW.
-Still not a fan of the old potti box, that now houses the battery box and then 2 adjustable height shelves on L-track. It's a good sized box, but it seems out of place, or should I say it seems like it cramps the interior space quite a bit. But perhaps it seems this way because I'm used to my Aterra feeling so much more open in the galley area and area aft of cabover. One point made to me is that if you're not using the King bed extension, you could put some soft storage on the wood top of this cabinet and gain a bit more storage space.
-Kitchen counter space on driver side is all taken up by the 2burner Suburban propane range and the deeper SS sink. So I guess food prep is supposed to take place on top of the large ex-potti cabinet on the pass side?
-Optional underbed storage is ok. Not a huge fan of the structural aluminum framework acting as a triple perimeter for your clothes and such, and there is no provision for allowing storage on the outer 2 sides of the framework, so you're on your own to create a barrier there so items don't shift out onto the floor in transit.
-Why on God's green Earth are the dinette cushions forest green, when the mattress cover is a quilted/calming/inviting gray, and everything else is white or black or bamboo'ish wood? Dinette cushions look cheap, and feel cheap too. Gray Sunbrella please.
-No option for an insulating shade for the window in the entry door? Beyond the value of insulation, everyone can see your junk when you're undressing to your bday suit in a Pilot Truck Stop parking lot at 3am with interior camper lights on.
-As some have mentioned before, the screen door is a bit too RV'ish. Tern's Wildlands Door screen is much more substantial, and of course saves you from angry bears, so there's that too.
-Cabinet/drawer latches are ok, but a bit harsh feeling to the touch, especially when the camper has no heat and is 40deg inside. Again, LOTS of latch options from Southco, etc, why ones where you have to have skinny fingers to operate (would have to remove your gloves for sure), I don't understand.

The cons can be remedied much easier than if the pros were the cons.
Overall, very very impressive. Still waiting for them to offer an HB-Shell (flatbed) model, as they offer a Shell (slide-in) with the CrossCountry.

 

[Crux]

You make some great points.

OEV makes solid reliable offroad campers that will last for years.

However, living in an OEV camper feels like you are in an industrial lab.

Hard metal everywhere, ugly interior colors and cushions, horribly stark lighting, loud clanking aluminum metal latches and underbed storage, cheap switches.

They have a great lineup of models, but they need to refine and polish their builds.
The little details matter.

More competitors are building comparable campers that don't feel like an industrial box (e.g. Super Tramp, ArmorLite, Total Compositites + Bear, Nimbl, Earthcruiser).

It would be great if OEV would offer:
-Dimmable lights
-Light strip around perimeter of ceiling
-Different cushion color options or color themes (see SuperTramp for amazing color combos)
-Better feeling positive latchs
-More rubber bumpers to reduce annoying noise of loud harsh aluminum
-More subtle exterior lines and curves to improve appearance (so it doesn't just look like a giant white box)
-Better doors and screens (Artic Tern?)
-Exterior color matching, or at least 4-5 colors to pick from

 

[Crux]

After watching the video of the interior of the High Country Flatbed, I was curious about how it will differ from the HBE HW?

A few guesses:

• East/west bed in HBE vs north/south in HC
• No side bed storage in HBE
• No moonroof over bed in HBE
• No microwave in HBE
• HBE will have a booth table seating in the back vs wrap around booth in HC
• HBE will be shorter (6.5'/8' vs 9')
• Can you think of any others???

If the HBE HW is around the rumored 78k and the HC is 122k, are those items enough to justify a 44k difference?

 

[mk216v]

You make some great points.

OEV makes solid reliable offroad campers that will last for years.

However, living in an OEV camper feels like you are in an industrial lab.

Hard metal everywhere, ugly interior colors and cushions, horribly stark lighting, loud clanking aluminum metal latches and underbed storage, cheap switches.

They have a great lineup of models, but they need to refine and polish their builds.
The little details matter.

More competitors are building comparable campers that don't feel like an industrial box (e.g. Super Tramp, ArmorLite, Total Compositites + Bear, Nimbl, Earthcruiser).

It would be great if OEV would offer:
-Dimmable lights
-Light strip around perimeter of ceiling
-Different cushion color options or color themes (see SuperTramp for amazing color combos)
-Better feeling positive latchs
-More rubber bumpers to reduce annoying noise of loud harsh aluminum
-More subtle exterior lines and curves to improve appearance (so it doesn't just look like a giant white box)
-Better doors and screens (Artic Tern?)
-Exterior color matching, or at least 4-5 colors to pick from

Thanks. I tend to analyze and obsess over the details a lot. You also have some excellent points too.

A sterile lab is one way to put it. It could use some more softness inside. One thing I really like about my Aterra feels--it feels comfortable.
Latches/doors are loud indeed.
I know of one OEV dealer who added some LED lighting, and it impressed OEV so much that OEV will hopefully incorporate this into their future builds.
Definitely need a few color schemes. Doesn't appear anyone at OEV is an interior designer (ie color swatches).
Exterior color matching would be cool. The smooth gel coat exterior would lend itself to a nice wrap to best match the truck or look/feel someone wants.

After watching the video of the interior of the High Country Flatbed, I was curious about how it will differ from the HBE HW?

A few guesses:

• East/west bed in HBE vs north/south in HC
• No side bed storage in HBE
• No moonroof over bed in HBE
• No microwave in HBE
• HBE will have a booth table seating in the back vs wrap around booth in HC
• HBE will be shorter (6.5'/8' vs 9')
• Can you think of any others???

If the HBE HW is around the rumored 78k and the HC is 122k, are those items enough to justify a 44k difference?

Yes to first point. HC HW will have standard E-W bed, and the N-C bed will have 2 aluminum bedside storage boxes; this is a $9xxx upgrade, apparently because the cabover is 16" longer than standard. Still, I don't see why it costs this much to use longer panels.
Big hatch over HC bed; nice, but also going to let a lot of heat in/out.
Do you need a microwave?
HC has a fully enclosed wet bath/shower.
Supposedly HC has higher end components/systems.
I agree; don't see how that totals $44k of differences.

 

[Chadx]

However, living in an OEV camper feels like you are in an industrial lab.

Personally, the feel of the OEV camper interiors is what attracted us to OEV, but I prefer using "clean and modern" to describe it rather than "industrial lab". Ha. I'm done with wood and wood laminates as they look fragile or outdated to my eye and I love the monochromatic neutral interior colors (white/black/gray). Our previous camper (FWC) would have never been purchased had they not offered the "silver spur" interior that got rid of the woodgrain veneered cabinets. But I get everyone tastes are different. My eye likes things that are durable and I don't have to worry about babying. So yeah, perhaps a bit industrial! Ha. Same reason all my bang sticks have synthetic stocks over wood. While I love the beauty of fine wood stock, it makes me not want to use them for fear of nicking them up and if that means not using it, then I don't want it because I don't collect; I use. I've grown to associate synthetic materials/colorways with durability, usability and performance. I can appreciate fine wood cabinetry in a home, but in a little camper where I'm always banging things into things, I don't want wood or wood veneers or anything that compromises durability. I want Starboard and aluminum.

We are very happy we got our CAMP-X prior to the change to bamboo countertops as, to my eye, the warm tone of those clash with the rest of the cool tones in the camper. Since we are still considering changing to a Hudson Bay in the next couple years, I'm still campaigning for OEV to offer buyers a choice on countertops (the current bamboo or back to the nice black countertops they previously used). Otherwise, I'll have to consider changing out all the countertops or find another solution to change the color tone of the bamboo. Not sure if the bamboo is sealed but if not, then staining it black might be another solution. I like bamboo as a material and the look of it, but it's decidedly out of place, color-tone-wise, with the cool grays of the aluminum cabinets in OEV interiors. Alternative would be a color change on cabinets to a color that works with the bamboo. From comments in OEV threads and other brand camper threads, bamboo countertops seem to be polarizing; people either really like them or really dislike them. I'm mostly in the dislike camp, though I have seen interior color schemes where the bamboo looks good.

In the end, everyone has different tastes, but I much prefer a modern clean interior like OEV uses since it lends itself to owners easily customizing the overall feel by changing the color if things that are easily replaced (floor rugs, blankets, seat cushion, adding colored back splash, etc.). This works as long as the cabinetry, floors and rest of the interior are neutral colors. If the manufacturer uses non-neutral colors, it becomes much harder to customize compared to changing colors of simple, removable things.

 

[Chadx]

I know of one OEV dealer who added some LED lighting, and it impressed OEV so much that OEV will hopefully incorporate this into their future builds.

I've been offering OEV constructive input on the lighting for 3 years now. They are normally open to improvements/suggestions, but have been stubborn on the lighting. Ha. Part of it is they run wiring in conduit rather than inside the roof panel, so they have to consider the looks of that. The current LED domes mean all the light comes from one point so shadows are very harsh. Simplest solution would be replacing the existing domes with 24+" light bars so they don't get blocked since the light source comes from a wider area.

You really can't give good light with only two dome lights. There needs to be light over the dinette and light over the galley and light in the cabover so three light sources at a minimum, even if sticking with the dome lights.

I did a USB string light perimeter light, around the entire ceiling, for when we are just relaxing and don't need working bright working light. I have more intense ribbon lights laying here ready to be installed. Still trying to decide if I give them their own controller or tie them into the main light circuit (and add dimmer to that circuit as others have done). A way to really give string/ribbon light a high class touch is run it in L channel or C channel and face the light towards the exterior walls. That indirect lighting looks great, though does take more intense light to give adequate brightness. But running it the entire length of the camper on both sides should give plenty of light. Using a dimmer switch, you can dial in the appropriate brightness for the task at hand.

 

[mk216v]

Personally, the feel of the OEV camper interiors is what attracted us to OEV, but I prefer using "clean and modern" to describe it rather than "industrial lab". Ha. I'm done with wood and wood laminates as they look fragile or outdated to my eye and I love the monochromatic neutral interior colors (white/black/gray). Our previous camper (FWC) would have never been purchased had they not offered the "silver spur" interior that got rid of the woodgrain veneered cabinets. But I get everyone tastes are different. My eye likes things that are durable and I don't have to worry about babying. So yeah, perhaps a bit industrial! Ha. Same reason all my bang sticks have synthetic stocks over wood. While I love the beauty of fine wood stock, it makes me not want to use them for fear of nicking them up and if that means not using it, then I don't want it because I don't collect; I use. I've grown to associate synthetic materials/colorways with durability, usability and performance. I can appreciate fine wood cabinetry in a home, but in a little camper where I'm always banging things into things, I don't want wood or wood veneers or anything that compromises durability. I want Starboard and aluminum.

We are very happy we got our CAMP-X prior to the change to bamboo countertops as, to my eye, the warm tone of those clash with the rest of the cool tones in the camper. Since we are still considering changing to a Hudson Bay in the next couple years, I'm still campaigning for OEV to offer buyers a choice on countertops (the current bamboo or back to the nice black countertops they previously used). Otherwise, I'll have to consider changing out all the countertops or find another solution to change the color tone of the bamboo. Not sure if the bamboo is sealed but if not, then staining it black might be another solution. I like bamboo as a material and the look of it, but it's decidedly out of place, color-tone-wise, with the cool grays of the aluminum cabinets in OEV interiors. Alternative would be a color change on cabinets to a color that works with the bamboo. From comments in OEV threads and other brand camper threads, bamboo countertops seem to be polarizing; people either really like them or really dislike them. I'm mostly in the dislike camp, though I have seen interior color schemes where the bamboo looks good.

In the end, everyone has different tastes, but I much prefer a modern clean interior like OEV uses since it lends itself to owners easily customizing the overall feel by changing the color if things that are easily replaced (floor rugs, blankets, seat cushion, adding colored back splash, etc.). This works as long as the cabinetry, floors and rest of the interior are neutral colors. If the manufacturer uses non-neutral colors, it becomes much harder to customize compared to changing colors of simple, removable things.

Clean and modern can be had without feeling sterile and a bit harsh as I think Crux was getting at. I agree with you both, and think there can be a happy medium. Time will tell...
Also agreed also on heavy wood look, and FWC being stuck in the 80s/90s still, save for the SilverSpur. White/gray tones indeed.
There's definitely been a run on the bamboo countertop look as of late. Maybe IKEA was having a sale? And an OEV with white aluminum and black Starboard, adding some bamboo is a bit odd--I guess they're trying to warm up the lab?
I am still perplexed why they landed on dark green cushions, when the bedding is gray (white/gray tones).

I've been offering OEV constructive input on the lighting for 3 years now. They are normally open to improvements/suggestions, but have been stubborn on the lighting. Ha. Part of it is they run wiring in conduit rather than inside the roof panel, so they have to consider the looks of that. The current LED domes mean all the light comes from one point so shadows are very harsh. Simplest solution would be replacing the existing domes with 24+" light bars so they don't get blocked since the light source comes from a wider area.

You really can't give good light with only two dome lights. There needs to be light over the dinette and light over the galley and light in the cabover so three light sources at a minimum, even if sticking with the dome lights.

I did a USB string light perimeter light, around the entire ceiling, for when we are just relaxing and don't need working bright working light. I have more intense ribbon lights laying here ready to be installed. Still trying to decide if I give them their own controller or tie them into the main light circuit (and add dimmer to that circuit as others have done). A way to really give string/ribbon light a high class touch is run it in L channel or C channel and face the light towards the exterior walls. That indirect lighting looks great, though does take more intense light to give adequate brightness. But running it the entire length of the camper on both sides should give plenty of light. Using a dimmer switch, you can dial in the appropriate brightness for the task at hand.

Yes and yes. But OEV has eventually come around with many of your (and other's here) suggestions. So maybe there is still hope.
You have some good ideas herein.

PS--will see if anyone can answer my $40k question.