2nd or 3rd Gen 4Runner

Schattenjager

Expedition Leader
Looking for a 4runner. I had a '95 with an auto when I was in Alaska and it was a fantastic rig, but I sold it to get a Cruiser. So I know a bit about the 2nd gen but am learning that the auto transmissions were problematic. Is this true of the 3rd Gen as well? I love a manual, but in a sports car, not a truck. However, I can make the transition if warranted.

I've also heard the '99-00 are the best years to look for. Why would this be?

Your thoughts are appreciated.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Hey, welcome back! Another vehicle quest, huh? What is this, like Toyota no. 9 or something for you? ;)

99-00 are the most desirable for a couple of reasons. First of all, the 96-98 models (which are identifiable by their lack of the "fat lip" energy absorbing bumper) generally had a lower suspension and the interior driver/passenger area is not nearly as nice (terrible cup holders and only one power outlet in the front being the biggest complaints.)

The 1999 facelift gave the 4runner the better interior and features like auto up/down front windows (both of them), headlights that turn off automatically if you leave them on, a way to store the rear seat headrests when you fold the seat down and a few other creature comforts. My 99 also had the rear passenger heater (this is actually a separate heating unit with the fan under the passenger seat and a set of controls for the rear seat passenger.)

1999 models are also known as the "tall coil" models because they had the tallest suspension. Here's a picture of my '99 with bone-stock suspension running 265/75/16s (just one size up from the factory tire size of 265/70/16):

2010_0328_172229AA.jpg


Keep in mind this photo is from 2010 so the suspension had had 11 years to sag by this point and it's still pretty tall.

Another plus for the 99-00 models is that the limited version (which was auto-only) had a multi-mode transfer case that allowed you to run in 4wd on dry pavement if you wanted to, or to run in 2wd, or to lock the center diff. Most Limiteds also had the rear E-locker. The 99-00 limiteds and the 2009 Trail Edition were the only 4runners that ever had BOTH multi-mode AND a factory rear E-locker. Even the modern 4runners don't offer this option (on the modern 4runners you can get an E-locker with conventional 4wd on the TE, but there's no multi-mode option.)

If you want a 4 cyl, 2000 was the last year for that option and also the last year a manual tranny was available. The Highlander/Sport Edition (with the hood scoop) seems to be the most desirable 3rd gen out there, bonus points if it has a 5 speed.

A final plus for the 99-00 models is that they didn't have the problematic traction control system that the 2001-2002 models did (you'll see this as a common topic over on T4R.org.) All 4wd 2001-2002 4runners had multi-mode 4wd and they were all 3.4/autos.

Downsides to the 3rd gen include a very unreliable fuel gauge and a fuel tank that IMO is terribly undersized (18.5 gallons.) Combined with lackluster MPG this results in a cruising range of less than 350 miles on the highway (in practical terms, you'd be looking for a gas station before 300) and in the city, a practical range of a little over 200 miles. If you go over to the T4R.org 3rd gen forums, you will find that MPG and range complaints are the biggest ones there.

Other thing to watch out for with the auto is the dreaded "pink milkshake" tranny failure caused by a failure of the radiator-mounted tranny cooler that lets antifreeze mix with the transmission fluid. The good news is that you can mount an aftermarket tranny cooler and bypass the factory cooler entirely which prevents this problem.

I liked my 3rd gen a lot, off road it was tremendously capable. If I didn't need to pull a trailer, I would probably still have it. However, the lack of power to pull even a small trailer like Bubbles as well as the short range (which caused us to run out of gas in Oregon last year) made me trade it in for a 4th gen, and while the 4th gen is not as capable off-road, it's much better as a tow vehicle. It's also better in marginal weather because of the multi-mode 4wd that all 4th gen V6 4wd models came with.

Hope that helps!
 

Schattenjager

Expedition Leader
Thank you for the welcome and the thoughtful and complete write up!

I have found a Highlander with manual - waiting on a call back. What constitutes a "Highlander" model?

The nice, presentable, under 200K miles 4Runner pickings are SLIM! My plan B is to look at an Xterra, but I know nothing about them. They are significantly less expensive than a comparable 4runner - I can only imagine there are reasons why... "T" is in the blood.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Thank you for the welcome and the thoughtful and complete write up!

I have found a Highlander with manual - waiting on a call back. What constitutes a "Highlander" model?

The nice, presentable, under 200K miles 4Runner pickings are SLIM! My plan B is to look at an Xterra, but I know nothing about them. They are significantly less expensive than a comparable 4runner - I can only imagine there are reasons why... "T" is in the blood.

Highlander is the name they gave to the Sport Edition until the Highlander Crossover was introduced in (I think) 2000. So the earlier ones were called Highlanders and after that, Sport Edition.

Other than the hood scoop and a different paint scheme I don't think there was much difference between the Highlander and the SR5. With the 4th gen, this isn't true, as the Sport has the XREAS suspension while the SR5 does not.

Some 3rd gen Highlanders had leather seats and the fake wood dash trim but AFAIK those were dealer-installed accessories, they did not come from Toyota. The Limited had the fake wood and the leather, and also the automatic climate control. I'm pretty sure the Highlander/Sport had the same basic climate controls as the SR5.

3rd gens are pricey! Too bad you weren't in the market back in June, I ended up selling mine at what I thought was below market price ($5,000 for an SR5 with 150k and a rear locker.) But I had a trip planned for early July and I wanted to have the new vehicle in time for the trip, so even though I had a lot of inquiries, I only had one firm offer, which I took.

I've actually heard that the 1st gen X is a pretty decent vehicle. The engine is not very powerful but then again neither is the 3.4 in the Toyota. MPG is not great, but again, the 3rd gen 4runner is pretty much the same. Unless you are absolutely set on an 4runner it wouldn't hurt to at least consider an Xterra. I don't think the 1st gen X ever had a factory locker option but for the difference in price between a 4runner and an X, you could probably install an ARB.

About the only downside to the X would be the torsion bar front suspension that I believe does not lend itself to much lifting. But if you can live with that it could be a decent option.
 
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AxleIke

Adventurer
Hey, welcome back! Another vehicle quest, huh? What is this, like Toyota no. 9 or something for you? ;)

99-00 are the most desirable for a couple of reasons. First of all, the 96-98 models (which are identifiable by their lack of the "fat lip" energy absorbing bumper) generally had a lower suspension and the interior driver/passenger area is not nearly as nice (terrible cup holders and only one power outlet in the front being the biggest complaints.)

The 1999 facelift gave the 4runner the better interior and features like auto up/down front windows (both of them), headlights that turn off automatically if you leave them on, a way to store the rear seat headrests when you fold the seat down and a few other creature comforts. My 99 also had the rear passenger heater (this is actually a separate heating unit with the fan under the passenger seat and a set of controls for the rear seat passenger.)

1999 models are also known as the "tall coil" models because they had the tallest suspension. Here's a picture of my '99 with bone-stock suspension running 265/75/16s (just one size up from the factory tire size of 265/70/16):

2010_0328_172229AA.jpg


Keep in mind this photo is from 2010 so the suspension had had 11 years to sag by this point and it's still pretty tall.

Another plus for the 99-00 models is that the limited version (which was auto-only) had a multi-mode transfer case that allowed you to run in 4wd on dry pavement if you wanted to, or to run in 2wd, or to lock the center diff. Most Limiteds also had the rear E-locker. The 99-00 limiteds and the 2009 Trail Edition were the only 4runners that ever had BOTH multi-mode AND a factory rear E-locker. Even the modern 4runners don't offer this option (on the modern 4runners you can get an E-locker with conventional 4wd on the TE, but there's no multi-mode option.)

If you want a 4 cyl, 2000 was the last year for that option and also the last year a manual tranny was available. The Highlander/Sport Edition (with the hood scoop) seems to be the most desirable 3rd gen out there, bonus points if it has a 5 speed.

A final plus for the 99-00 models is that they didn't have the problematic traction control system that the 2001-2002 models did (you'll see this as a common topic over on T4R.org.) All 4wd 2001-2002 4runners had multi-mode 4wd and they were all 3.4/autos.

Downsides to the 3rd gen include a very unreliable fuel gauge and a fuel tank that IMO is terribly undersized (18.5 gallons.) Combined with lackluster MPG this results in a cruising range of less than 350 miles on the highway (in practical terms, you'd be looking for a gas station before 300) and in the city, a practical range of a little over 200 miles. If you go over to the T4R.org 3rd gen forums, you will find that MPG and range complaints are the biggest ones there.

Other thing to watch out for with the auto is the dreaded "pink milkshake" tranny failure caused by a failure of the radiator-mounted tranny cooler that lets antifreeze mix with the transmission fluid. The good news is that you can mount an aftermarket tranny cooler and bypass the factory cooler entirely which prevents this problem.

I liked my 3rd gen a lot, off road it was tremendously capable. If I didn't need to pull a trailer, I would probably still have it. However, the lack of power to pull even a small trailer like Bubbles as well as the short range (which caused us to run out of gas in Oregon last year) made me trade it in for a 4th gen, and while the 4th gen is not as capable off-road, it's much better as a tow vehicle. It's also better in marginal weather because of the multi-mode 4wd that all 4th gen V6 4wd models came with.

Hope that helps!

Awesome Post!

Couldn't agree more, though, my truck (a 99 SR5, manual tranny and factory Elocker) is supercharged, which helps out the power a lot. With Fuel modifications, it is even better, but I've yet to do those.

However, the gas tank size, and range, is abysmal, as stated, and to be honest, the 4.0L V6 in the newer trucks gets better mileage, as well as having more power.

The 3.4 is bombproof, but I've seen no evidence to say the 4.0 isn't, might be worth a look at those too.

IMO, go with the third over the second gen if you go that route. I'm not a fan of the 3.0 motor in the 2nd gens, nor am I a fan of torsion bar suspension. The Third Gens ride nicer, have more power, and are over all more comfortable than the second gens, IMO. They also keep alignments better, and the steering is a rack and pinion, which holds up MUCH better to large tires than the early center link/idler/pitman style. Believe me, I built the ever-loving piss out of of my First gen steering, and that was what it took to keep it together with larger than stock tires. Third gens can take 33's and 35's without much worry.
 
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AxleIke

Adventurer
Would 296K miles be a deal breaker with full service history?

How good are you with Engine work?

I bought mine with 210k, and supercharged it at 220k, but I have rebuilt a 3.4L before, and found it to be a very easy motor to work on, so I have never worried about it.

That said, these are very reliable motors if properly taken care of. If you have a full service record, and timing belts, plugs, wires, oil changes, axle, tranny, tcase etc service has been done at reasonable and regular intervals, I think you'd be fine.

I'd get it checked for major leaks though.
 

dsrtdcab

Adventurer
How many owners on record? It wouldn't be for me. It all comes down to actually looking, and actually being in front of the truck for me. I looked at 3 trucks before settling on mine. If I remember correctly, you are no stranger to the Toyota trucks, take a look and see how it looks in person, I would imagine you will know pretty quick what kind of life the truck led.

Good luck and welcome back

Nick
 

one80auto

New member
Would 296K miles be a deal breaker with full service history?

For what it is worth I drive a 1996 3rd gen with 235,000 on a 2-day, 1100 mile commute every two weeks with no problems. I bought it with 188,000 on it and have done nothing but usual maintenance. Big things for me at that mileage for me would be the age of timing belt, tensioner, and pulleys....cylinder compression/leak check, etc. I guess it would depend how in depth the "full service history" was documented. Mine is a 5 speed manual so I can't speak to any auto stuff. I love the vehicle and it will be my toy/expo vehicle in the near future. Below is an excellent post from T4R on the 3rd gen.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/82033-3rd-gen-4runner-buyer-s-guide.html
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
At that age/mileage I would also seriously consider replacing the ball joints as a matter of course. They have been known to fail although AFAIK that's primarily a rust-belt problem.
 

Booosted Supra

Observer
2nd gens didn't have trans problems as far as the unit, the unit itself is actually very indestructible. The ones I replaced in my time working for Toyota/Lexus were few and far between. The problem with automatic trucks was the amount of power you lose behind the 3.0(that everyone hates). The best modification I did to my drive line was do a 5 speed swap. I have been driving this truck going on almost 8 years and for about 5? of them it was automatic geared with 5.71's and the automatic still couldn't keep up.

Other problem they have is the head gasket recall. Everyone blames the 3.0 for a lot and the standard answer for repairing a 3.0 among the Toyota world is "3.4 swap it" because of the HG problem and "poor gas mileage" but to be fair we are comparing two different motors from two different generations of trucks and from two different times. Comparing a 12v SOHC to a 24v DOHC isnt fair at all. In the same time frame the 3VZ-FE DOHC didnt really have much more impressive power. Any rate, if the repair was done correctly the 3.0 is very under credited and is very reliable and is very bullet proof. Proper choice of gearing helps a lot too depending on your application.

The other problem everyone complains about is the IFS system. The IFS system is also very under credited. The standard answer is to SAS. In the 8 years of abuse on my 5.71 set up(which everyone swears is the weakest) locked front AND rear, I can count the amount of CV failures I have had on one hand and the truck is not used lightly and carries a heavy load on a daily basis as it is my ONLY vehicle. The weakest link in the IFS after locking is the passenger side "stub shaft" which will twist off like a bottle top but can be modified with no problems to be reliable. Flex is a complaint but my truck goes anywhere I want to put it and everyone I am on the trail with is either SAS'd or in a factory straight axle vehicle and I can assure you we get into some pretty hardcore scenery. The weak link is the steering, the idler arm and tie rods. The cost of upgrading these items IS the difference between a properly done swap. Other then that I do not have a bad thing to say about the IFS system as I have pushed it on purpose to prove a point over the years and even had it on 39.5 TSL boggers to see how long it would take the abuse.

The 2nd gen I feel is more of a simple truck compared to the 3rd. Less computers and luxury items to worry about, I seen someone say their 3rd gen had rear head, 1st(if they had the option) and 2nd gens also did. Depending on your direction for your built IFS vs SAS the cost difference is dramatically higher on a 3rd gen, but here again it depends on which direction you go. I think the seats are more comfortable, as far as room they are basically the same, the dash board in the 3rd gen and a lot of other misc interior items look basically like the 2nd gen just more updated. For me simplicity is key, and I kind of feel bad chopping up a newer truck to my needs compared to an older truck which has already been thru the hammers and could use some fixing and modification to fix problems. I can go on and on.

Pics of my 4runner are in the link in my signature below. I am def not downing a 3rd gen or any 4runner either, just my insights on driving a 2nd gen for so many years and being around Toyotas of all kinds as I do work for the company
 

Booosted Supra

Observer
Oh and stay off of Yotatech.com if your seeking advise there haha, you will be closed minded biased one direction answers to the questions you didn't ask. This is a great forum with great information and great actually informative individuals.
 

Schattenjager

Expedition Leader
I'm guessing that the timing belt, H2O pump, pulleys and ball joints would be around $1K-ish based on the aforementioned resource - Thank you, btw, one80auto, for that great resource. I'm waiting to hear back on the car. It belongs to a soldier now in Europe and his mom is helping with the sale. She is going to give me the skinny on the records.
 
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stonepa

Observer
Would 296K miles be a deal breaker with full service history?

I too had a 4Runner, when I was living in Homer. Bought mine new in '94 at Nye in Anchorage. Still love it, although I usually drive my 98 Land Cruiser now that I have kids and more dogs. I have never had any issues with the truck since new, although I did need to change the head gasket (no failure) due to the recall back in 1996. I have the auto 3.0 V6. That thing is bullet proof all around. I know some people knock the V6 and the IFS but neither have let me down in several hundred thousand miles. I don't rock crawl it but I have driven it up the Dalton and Dempster highways several times, and down to Central America and Brazil. The engine is truly gutless at highway speeds, at altitude, in the mountains, but had no problem up Turnagain Pass with a trailer full of snow machines.
 

Schattenjager

Expedition Leader
3Ga3Lf3Hd5Nb5E65M6d3ee158b026f92b14d0.jpgScreen Shot 2013-04-18 at 12.15.52 AM.jpg

Further questions reveal it is: dark green, 5-speed, with e locker. Timing belt was done 5 years ago / 57K miles.
Was told the paint is in very good condition as is the cloth interior. Pretty good service history but would seem the timing belt, h2o pump service should be done as well as the ball joints. If I get it, can easily imagine it being a $3500 purchase. This will leave $ room for those services as well as base lining the fluids.
I'm going to see it tomorrow at noon.
This just might be the start of something good, yes?
 
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