toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
My truck has had a lock rite for 10 years now. It's been rock crawled and driven daily he while time issues.
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2wd!! More off road capable?
- Thread starter mykdee
- Start date
My truck has had a lock rite for 10 years now. It's been rock crawled and driven daily he while time issues.
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NothingClever
Explorer
I have to disagree with the above statement (jmo). Full time lockers cause a vehicle to behave in unexpected ways on dry pavement and sometimes in bad ways on slippery surfaces. 99% of the time an open rear diff will be fine but for the 1% a selectable locker will make you very happy.
I agree with your disagreement. I wouldn't want a locker switched on full time for a daily drive in the dry. That'd wear out some rubber, oil and steel a lot faster than not.
RangeBrover
Explorer
Might even want to consider a winch. You can always just recover yourself.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Nope. You must not have much experience with lockers. They unlock in turns. They aren't spools.
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walking eagle
Observer
Don't know what kind of coin you're wanting to drop - but, some cheaper things
1. Cutting brake - it's old fashioned to some, unknown to others. Applies brakes to one rear wheel or the other manually and you have cheap traction control - also a way to tighten up the turning radius on a big box.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/wheels/131_0707_cutting_brakes/photo_05.html
http://www.cncbrakes.com/cb.asp?grp=cb&subgrp=dh&series=452A&subseries=
2. Some good longer travel shocks. If you can free up a little flex you can keep all tires on the ground better.
3. Swaybar disconnects - again, same theory, if you can keep pressure on all the tires, you can keep forward progress better - also nearly free depending on your set-up.
4. Most agressive tires you can stand on the street.
5. Come along
6. Winch
7. Selectable locker.
1. Cutting brake - it's old fashioned to some, unknown to others. Applies brakes to one rear wheel or the other manually and you have cheap traction control - also a way to tighten up the turning radius on a big box.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/wheels/131_0707_cutting_brakes/photo_05.html
http://www.cncbrakes.com/cb.asp?grp=cb&subgrp=dh&series=452A&subseries=
2. Some good longer travel shocks. If you can free up a little flex you can keep all tires on the ground better.
3. Swaybar disconnects - again, same theory, if you can keep pressure on all the tires, you can keep forward progress better - also nearly free depending on your set-up.
4. Most agressive tires you can stand on the street.
5. Come along
6. Winch
7. Selectable locker.
762X39
Explorer
Actually, I have a lot of experience with true lockers and with positraction as well. When my locker is engaged it is a spool (which I want). Detroit Lockers and their ilk are unpredictable on varied surfaces and they are hard on your driveline, tires and sometimes your steering. My opinion is that lockers that cannot be disengaged are not suitable for full time use on a DD.
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toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
That's your opinion and my opinion is they are fine. Are you one of those individuals that thinks a posi is different than a limited slip?
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NothingClever
Explorer
Yep, I'm not that experienced. I'm only familiar with Toyota products (1st and 2nd gen 4Runner and 1st gen Tacoma).
762X39
Explorer
Sorry, I referred to a Positraction (which I think was a marketing term used by GM or somebody) when I should have said limited slip differential. I had forgotten all about cutting brakes, one of the Niva guys used 2 parking brakes (left and right rear wheels) to add enough resistance to the spinning tire to allow the other tire to hook up when off pavement rallying or wheeling. At the end of the day it is about making sure that the tires are in firm contact with the driving surface and ensuring that the drive wheel with the most traction can do its thing. A long series of compromises must be made (can't get something for nothing, law of physics won't permit it) to achieve these ends.
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Maximus Ram
Expedition Leader
As with everything in life, we all have different expierences. I enjoy reading reading ones expierences , but not the disagreements that seem to transpire in these discussions. What works in one area , may not be the best for another.
So please, lets not make this thread into a this is better than that because I have done it .....thats not what we should be about here.
My first thought would be a selectable locker in the back(no real world with them, just a thought), better tires and shocks, and maybe a mild lift. Oh and maybe a winch.
I like these threads, it gives me info just in case I ever find a nice van that I can afford to get and use until I find even more $$ to convert it to 4x. :safari-rig:
Have a great day All,
Matt
So please, lets not make this thread into a this is better than that because I have done it .....thats not what we should be about here.
My first thought would be a selectable locker in the back(no real world with them, just a thought), better tires and shocks, and maybe a mild lift. Oh and maybe a winch.
I like these threads, it gives me info just in case I ever find a nice van that I can afford to get and use until I find even more $$ to convert it to 4x. :safari-rig:
Have a great day All,
Matt
walking eagle
Observer
Auto lockers - Lock-right, Detroit, ect. can be used on the street, but they create interesting handling traits that not everyone is o.k. with. Lets look at what they actually do rather than just pissing back and forth uhhuh, nahuh.
Throttle off, one side can walk over the other side, so if you're in a corner with the throttle off it doesn't do anything spooky other than you might hear it ratcheting.
If however you apply the throttle midway through a turn, the locker will engage (lock) and you've gone from two tires spining at different speeds to two being forced to go the same speed. This can make for some interesting handling and is why many people say not to use them on the street. It is definately different, especially if you're not ready. Different lockers are more abrupt than others - that's why detroit came out with the 'soft locker' at one point. Different vehicles react differently too depending on tires, suspension, weight ditribution, wheel base, ect. A CJ-5 with 6" lift and 38's is going to react alot differently to a locker locking up in the middle of a corner than a F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed on 32's.
This can also screw you up off road. You're already in a big van so your turning radius isn't that of a samurai. Throw a locker in there that you can't turn off and it's going to want to push straight whenever you're on the throttle. I think this is worse w/ 2wd cause you don't have the front pulling you around. In loose stuff on the throttle it'll also make the rear end try to come around. Rallycrossed a friend's D50 w/ a spool and compared to the tacoma w/ open rear I had the tail was way wilder on his truck. The advantage of course was in corners I was spinging my inner rear and loosing momentum (which was actually probably saving me from flipping ).
The snow ice comment is the same type of deal. Some people will say it's o.k., but opinions vary. What happens, and this happens even with posi (LSD) to a degree (more when it's a 70's El Camino w/ light rear end) - is one tire is on ice and one tire on dry pavement the truck spins. It's very close to using a turning / cutting brake cause you have one wheel doing nothing, and one pushing forward twisting the truck/car - either toward oncoming traffic or toward the ditch. Normal open differentials won't do this. This isn't as bad with 4wd as it is with 2wd, as you have a front tire pulling and helping keep it from rotating.
Myself, I'd take a selectable locker over any other choice (I just happen to have two of them from the factory on my LX). If I couldn't afford that, I'd go LSD or a winch. For me it's not that a auto-locker would be undrivable on the street, it's that I have run into situatutions where I have to loan out my truck, like to my mother-in-law - and I don't want to have to worry about how she's going to react to it being different.
Throttle off, one side can walk over the other side, so if you're in a corner with the throttle off it doesn't do anything spooky other than you might hear it ratcheting.
If however you apply the throttle midway through a turn, the locker will engage (lock) and you've gone from two tires spining at different speeds to two being forced to go the same speed. This can make for some interesting handling and is why many people say not to use them on the street. It is definately different, especially if you're not ready. Different lockers are more abrupt than others - that's why detroit came out with the 'soft locker' at one point. Different vehicles react differently too depending on tires, suspension, weight ditribution, wheel base, ect. A CJ-5 with 6" lift and 38's is going to react alot differently to a locker locking up in the middle of a corner than a F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed on 32's.
This can also screw you up off road. You're already in a big van so your turning radius isn't that of a samurai. Throw a locker in there that you can't turn off and it's going to want to push straight whenever you're on the throttle. I think this is worse w/ 2wd cause you don't have the front pulling you around. In loose stuff on the throttle it'll also make the rear end try to come around. Rallycrossed a friend's D50 w/ a spool and compared to the tacoma w/ open rear I had the tail was way wilder on his truck. The advantage of course was in corners I was spinging my inner rear and loosing momentum (which was actually probably saving me from flipping
).The snow ice comment is the same type of deal. Some people will say it's o.k., but opinions vary. What happens, and this happens even with posi (LSD) to a degree (more when it's a 70's El Camino w/ light rear end) - is one tire is on ice and one tire on dry pavement the truck spins. It's very close to using a turning / cutting brake cause you have one wheel doing nothing, and one pushing forward twisting the truck/car - either toward oncoming traffic or toward the ditch. Normal open differentials won't do this. This isn't as bad with 4wd as it is with 2wd, as you have a front tire pulling and helping keep it from rotating.
Myself, I'd take a selectable locker over any other choice (I just happen to have two of them from the factory on my LX). If I couldn't afford that, I'd go LSD or a winch. For me it's not that a auto-locker would be undrivable on the street, it's that I have run into situatutions where I have to loan out my truck, like to my mother-in-law - and I don't want to have to worry about how she's going to react to it being different.
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deserteagle56
Adventurer
A selectable locker would be the best thing you could do, in my opinion. I didn't know how much of a difference it would make until I had ARBs installed in my Quigley a couple years ago. Now it seems I rarely need to shift into 4wd. Whenever I'm easing through a bad spot and get it in a bit of a twist with one rear wheel with no weight on it and spinning, all it takes is a push of the button, the other rear wheel starts pulling and I'm on my way again.
I had an Eaton posi in my former van and wasn't very happy with it at all. To get it to engage took a lot of wheelspin from the wheel with no traction and sometimes that caused even more problems.
I had an Eaton posi in my former van and wasn't very happy with it at all. To get it to engage took a lot of wheelspin from the wheel with no traction and sometimes that caused even more problems.
NothingClever
Explorer
It took me a minute to understand the last two words...when I got it, I chuckled out loud. I call it the 'elementary school debate exchange'.