3/4 Ton... Dodge or Ford?

thethePete

Explorer
May be powerful, but it's a garbage motor. Along with the truck it's sitting in.

That's the fact-based, intelligent commentary we all like to hear. Tons of fact and proof in there. And a whole single youtube video to substantiate your claims. Wow.

The bed plate leaks on them. And the DPF crap as drewactual commented correctly about, craps the bed. Get rid of the emissions garbage and the 6.4 is solid. Over 20mpg loaded to the hilt, and no smoke. That generation of SD is probably one of the best you can buy from the used-market standpoint. I've seen some issues with washing the rings, or spitting rockers due to excessive idling, and the poor implementation of the DPF system.

Dodge can't keep an automatic tranny in them to save their lives. So you spend $1000 ditching the DPF, or you spend $3k every couple years getting your tranny rebuilt. Dealer's choice.

A deleted 5.9 Dodge with aftermarket front end parts and a manual transmission is a great choice too, but the Cummins doesn't get the best mileage.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
That's the fact-based, intelligent commentary we all like to hear. Tons of fact and proof in there. And a whole single youtube video to substantiate your claims. Wow.

The bed plate leaks on them. And the DPF crap as drewactual commented correctly about, craps the bed. Get rid of the emissions garbage and the 6.4 is solid. Over 20mpg loaded to the hilt, and no smoke. That generation of SD is probably one of the best you can buy from the used-market standpoint. I've seen some issues with washing the rings, or spitting rockers due to excessive idling, and the poor implementation of the DPF system.

Dodge can't keep an automatic tranny in them to save their lives. So you spend $1000 ditching the DPF, or you spend $3k every couple years getting your tranny rebuilt. Dealer's choice.

A deleted 5.9 Dodge with aftermarket front end parts and a manual transmission is a great choice too, but the Cummins doesn't get the best mileage.

Well I'm not a ford or dodge fan . But he is an SME. He works on more power strokes than you do. I'd be willing to take his word for it.
 

drewactual

Adventurer
Now this is good ol fashioned ********** talk.. mucho better...

All said, and about the SD... It's a good rig throughout, but not perfect. My ol ram was a good rig too, but not near as good for traveling any appreciable distance... To furd cab has it in spades over the ramble for those model years... The new furd is a great hauler/tower over highways, where the ramble trap is more suited for off roading out of the box... The chebby is a good rig all around but not better than the furd over highway or the ram or furd off road... Just my opinion, but opinion based on items nearing fact...

Again, the 6.4PSD suffered from the tacked on emmissions... Address those, and most every problem is gone. Cylinders wash due to regeneration cycle.. pistons cracker due to lips (lipped to make more room in cylinder because of regeneration cycle). Rockers specifically the tips wear due to fuel dillution of crankcase, drum roll, because of the regeneration process... The dpf is whacked because of oil ingestion due to ccv to intake.. oil especially oil with zddp, destroys both cat and dpf... Egr and egr cooler design is laughable... Using Ford gold in egr equipped truck is almost certain way to clog oil cooler.. every one of these items are emissions related, and you gotta understand that this was the first full out emissioned truck, read: lab rat...
 

thethePete

Explorer
Really? So working at a Ford dealership, as a diesel tech, with Ford certifications... Working on Ford PSD trucks all day... Yep, don't know my *** from a hole in the ground. You take whomever's word you want.

Don't know what SME is supposed to stand for, but whatever. You're taking the word of someone else no matter who you choose. I'll just go back to doing my job, and you guys can go back to arguing over who's more righter.
 

drewactual

Adventurer
Sme. Subject matter expert... I am such, but for damn sure not on this subject.. ain't no cause for anyone to be mad, here... It's hard to figure if someone is using levity or snarkiness when reading... Dang letters ain't got no personality, right?
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
Really? So working at a Ford dealership, as a diesel tech, with Ford certifications... Working on Ford PSD trucks all day... Yep, don't know my *** from a hole in the ground. You take whomever's word you want.

Don't know what SME is supposed to stand for, but whatever. You're taking the word of someone else no matter who you choose. I'll just go back to doing my job, and you guys can go back to arguing over who's more righter.

Anyone can claim anything they want on the internets now can't we? SME is Subject Matter Expert. He fixes the crap you can't and was designed terrible from the factory. No need to swear. Here's a little sunshine to brighten the gloomy day you're having.
 

thethePete

Explorer
I'm having a wonderful day. Had nice, easy front end work all morning, did a few hours of diag to give myself some work for the rest of the week, and managed to get an F550 in my bay with a dickered flywheel by spinning the motor a few degrees and catching a good spot on the ring gear, so I didn't have to push it in... I've had worse days.

I doubt he "fixes crap I can't". Maybe fixes the same "crap", sure. But either way, I think this has run its course. You keep thinking whatever you want, I'll keep spending my days working on Ford PSDs and try to remind myself that ExPo doesn't need the professional opinion of a mechanic, because they know it all already.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
I'm having a wonderful day. Had nice, easy front end work all morning, did a few hours of diag to give myself some work for the rest of the week, and managed to get an F550 in my bay with a dickered flywheel by spinning the motor a few degrees and catching a good spot on the ring gear, so I didn't have to push it in... I've had worse days.

I doubt he "fixes crap I can't". Maybe fixes the same "crap", sure. But either way, I think this has run its course. You keep thinking whatever you want, I'll keep spending my days working on Ford PSDs and try to remind myself that ExPo doesn't need the professional opinion of a mechanic, because they know it all already.

Same goes for you :)
 

2025 deleted member

Well-known member
I'm having a wonderful day. Had nice, easy front end work all morning, did a few hours of diag to give myself some work for the rest of the week, and managed to get an F550 in my bay with a dickered flywheel by spinning the motor a few degrees and catching a good spot on the ring gear, so I didn't have to push it in... I've had worse days.

I doubt he "fixes crap I can't". Maybe fixes the same "crap", sure. But either way, I think this has run its course. You keep thinking whatever you want, I'll keep spending my days working on Ford PSDs and try to remind myself that ExPo doesn't need the professional opinion of a mechanic, because they know it all already.

I think your opinion as an expert matters. So you believe maybe a deleted 6.4 is the way to go?
 

Darwin

Explorer
https://youtu.be/8o2LGuzl0go
The 6.4 PSD is a throw away engine. Also expect to rebuild the front end around 100K miles. According to this SME.
He sure doesn't instill any confidence in a potential owner, seems like they are always taking the heads off those motors from all generations, not to mention there is two! instead of one. I hear high pressure oil pumps mentioned a lot, the bosh CP4 also doesn't sound that great either. Add in the fact that you have to remove the cab to do major engine work and it sounds like a major pain in the .....

I will take my little straight six cylinder anyday thank you very much.

Edit: Forgot to mention glow plugs, glad I don't have glow plugs. Lol.
 
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thethePete

Explorer
I think your opinion as an expert matters. So you believe maybe a deleted 6.4 is the way to go?

If I were in the market, as a non-mechanic, I would take the 6.4, spend $1000 with these guys for their delete software and test-pipe kit, and walk away happy. It's a pretty fool-proof solution, you can more or less do it in your driveway (though that big exhaust is a bit of a bear to wrestle with), and if you do it yourself and scrap your DPF/Cat, it's good for a few hundred bucks to help offset the cost.

As a mechanic, I would say it's a toss up between a 6.0 and a 6.4. The 6.0 is easier to work on, but requires more work upfront to be something reliable enough to push hard way in the boonies. It's something that costs a non-mechanic $5-7000 to have done, but can be done for a very small fraction if you have a good source for parts and the knowledge to do it. Much of the cost of the upgrades is labour. The 6.4 makes more power and requires less work to make happen, but high-pressure fuel pump failures are a real thing, and they're not for the average shadetree to tackle. Though, neither is a 6.0 arguably.

The Dodge requires much less engine work to be reliable, and the same company I mentioned above makes a DPF delete kit for them as well. However, Dodge transmissions are garbage, and their front ends require considerable work to be reliable as well, so in the end to make something bulletproof with either truck you're in for almost the same money. A well built Dodge trans is in the $3-5000 range, and the front end can be made solid with aftermarket goodies costing similar to stock replacement parts, some are rebuildable. I don't have nearly the same wrench time on Dodge stuff, so I can't say as much with first hand knowledge, I just know what I've seen and what I've spoken with collegues about. That said, I've never had a Dodge 3/4ton in the shop that didn't need at least one or more front end components.
 

2025 deleted member

Well-known member
He sure doesn't instill any confidence in a potential owner, seems like they are always taking the heads off those motors from all generations, not to mention there is two! instead of one. I hear high pressure oil pumps mentioned a lot, the bosh CP4 also doesn't sound that great either. Add in the fact that you have to remove the cab to do major engine work and it sounds like a major pain in the .....

I will take my little straight six cylinder anyday thank you very much.

Edit: Forgot to mention glow plugs, glad I don't have glow plugs. Lol.

I grenaded a CP4 in a 2011 duramax with about 80k on the odo. Nice thing about Chevy was the whole system was warrantied no questions asked. From what I have heard, Ford will check for fuel contamination first. Only problem is any fuel tank on earth will have some level of contamination. Maybe Pete can chime in on Ford warranty since I'm sure he knows what the rules our for Ford on it.
 

drewactual

Adventurer
I bet that pump was grenaded because.................. emissions.....

the same process that removes sulfur from fuel also strips lubricants- and most of these pumps use fuel not only to pump, but as a lubricant and a coolant, as well. If you run it dry, you're wearing on parts... you've got to do two things- one is keep the water out, as even a slight amount can wreak havoc... second is add lubricity. there are a number of suitable solutions out there... personally, I like standydine lubricity formula.

as far as the fella here bashing 6.4's, my question is: do you or have you owned one? Don't care about your buddy, or your brothers next door neighbor or any variation of five degrees of separation, I wonder if YOU have owned one? If not, you are taking part in hearsay, and are what you've accused your opponent here of: being an internet wiseguy...

Bill Hewitt is a clown (your vid link)... anyone who knows anything about powerstrokes knows that he is the ultimate interwebz wiseguy, and he makes a living passing dangerous information to people... it's freakin' hilarious to most. unlike Lucy, though, he doesn't always pull the pigskin on chuck- meaning sometimes he's dead on... that is what makes him dangerous. anyone making decisions off of his advice are easily influenced and likely the same ones on the lookout for little green men whilst avoiding Sasquatch.

these diesels, unlike the diesels that ran mechanical solenoid injectors on simple pumps, require/demand maintenance to be done properly and on schedule. oil... coolant... filters... not hard... The power they produce is hard not to play with... lazy people with heavy feet are the cause for the bad rap running them like race cars... head gasket failures on the 6.4 are rare at moderate power levels and driven by folks who's parents didn't buy it for them. don't stomp on a cold engine... never stand on it like a gasser- roll into the power... don't just drop off of high boost creating excessive back pressure- that'll blow a head gasket quick like- ease off the boost. don't idle them for long periods as the pistons will wet stack... this advice is not specific to the 6.4, it's good habits of competent diesel owners, which don't have near the issues of lazy lead footed twits drunk on power.

the ULSD is unavoidable... all you can do is use the extreme maintenance schedule for filters or put a better filtration system on it, and add back at least a hint of the lubricity that existed before the sulfur was removed... cetane for most makers advice is 45... most available on the road is 40... boost the cetane if you can w/ a quality product. EGR's make a mess of intakes and has it's way with oil... either change oil based off of laboratory analysis and advice, or every 5k miles with your fingers crossed. contaminated oil takes out lifters which scar camshafts... reroute your ccv, as the big rigs do- to atmosphere, but do it responsibly by using a catch- bypass gasses mixed with oil mist slop up boots and intercoolers, and they coke on turbo blades- ultimately they make it into the combustion chamber where they burn into the exhaust coking on cats and DPF's, creating backpressure and excessive heat which burns up valve seats and cracks pistons after a while- add to this a regen process and you could take that engine out easily, and it can be avoided by a simple reroute of the CCV which costs $10 or so to do right... again, this advice is not specific to 6.4's or even PSD's, it is simply common knowledge of responsible and savvy diesel owners who understand the difference between gassers and diesels. usually, they actually own one and intend to take care of it, instead of just talk shizen about it on the interwebz every time they can.


but anyway....

I found this site long ago, and because the references in other forums about specific items... I thought it was a place where folks a little better than other forums may hag about... turns out I was wrong... I joined recently and participated in threads just to be slapped at by 'interwebz tough guys with post counts' lending them pseudo authority... too damn funny... but, alas, I'm over it... you guys can have it.

toylandcruiser, you lost all cred when you interjected Bill Hewitt... It demonstrates your knowledge and understanding is off of internet accounts and not experience. that makes you dangerous to those with an interest in learning truth, and nothing more than a forum punk.... you earned it, you got it. if this offends you- good. you need to be set correct in effort to protect the reputation of the forum...
 

thethePete

Explorer
I grenaded a CP4 in a 2011 duramax with about 80k on the odo. Nice thing about Chevy was the whole system was warrantied no questions asked. From what I have heard, Ford will check for fuel contamination first. Only problem is any fuel tank on earth will have some level of contamination. Maybe Pete can chime in on Ford warranty since I'm sure he knows what the rules our for Ford on it.

GM would have checked for contamination too. The OEM is just like an insurance company, they try to find any possible loophole to avoid paying out. I worked for GM for a stint too, and I can say that they both use similar processes for most of their operations, I would imagine most dealership shops are structured similarly. Basically for a warranty repair, we need to use a prescribed troubleshooting tree and determine the failed part. Once we confirm the failure we submit our warranty repair claim and generally push the workorder through the shop at the same time. The dealership absorbs the lag-time for warranty claims. We sometimes don't get paid for a month or two after the job is done, depending on the speed of burocracy that day. Most parts are JIT delivered, so usually next day, common wear items are often stocked. Failed components are marked to ID them to the job, and then shipped back to the the OEM for analysis; both to confirm the repair was justified and for failure analysis. (This is part of the lag in paying us, they will charge back repairs that are not justfied)

Your first line of defence is us. The techs. The service advisors wave the wands and have some pull over getting things warrantied that may not be within the warranty timeframe, or what have you, but we're the ones that put our name on the line when we call a failed part. So if they say "check for contamination" and there's a tiny bit, but it's obvious you weren't running dyed diesel for the last year, we'll probably fudge the numbers and say it was clean. Also, they generally allow for reasonable margins on most tests. We may also call for the replacement of parts that aren't required for the primary repair, simply because we're already there and it makes sense due to time or mileage. We're not trying to rip someone off, even if it happens to incur a bit of customer expense, we're trying to save you money in the long run. I would imagine Dodge has a very similar warranty process.




drewactual -..... *slowclap* Thank you. Everything you just said is 100% spot-on. But we're just internet know-it-alls, so they'll go back to doing their thing, and I'll do the same as you; gleen the information I want, and try to walk away quietly from the technical discussions.
 

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