3/4 Ton... Dodge or Ford?

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
I don't think you can go wrong with any 3/4 ton. All have their strengths and weaknesses I'm sure. However, around here, I see far more Fords that are rusted to hell. Then again, there are just far more Fords in general. Once the rust sets in, any brand is done.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
I bet that pump was grenaded because.................. emissions.....

the same process that removes sulfur from fuel also strips lubricants- and most of these pumps use fuel not only to pump, but as a lubricant and a coolant, as well. If you run it dry, you're wearing on parts... you've got to do two things- one is keep the water out, as even a slight amount can wreak havoc... second is add lubricity. there are a number of suitable solutions out there... personally, I like standydine lubricity formula.

as far as the fella here bashing 6.4's, my question is: do you or have you owned one? Don't care about your buddy, or your brothers next door neighbor or any variation of five degrees of separation, I wonder if YOU have owned one? If not, you are taking part in hearsay, and are what you've accused your opponent here of: being an internet wiseguy...

Bill Hewitt is a clown (your vid link)... anyone who knows anything about powerstrokes knows that he is the ultimate interwebz wiseguy, and he makes a living passing dangerous information to people... it's freakin' hilarious to most. unlike Lucy, though, he doesn't always pull the pigskin on chuck- meaning sometimes he's dead on... that is what makes him dangerous. anyone making decisions off of his advice are easily influenced and likely the same ones on the lookout for little green men whilst avoiding Sasquatch.

these diesels, unlike the diesels that ran mechanical solenoid injectors on simple pumps, require/demand maintenance to be done properly and on schedule. oil... coolant... filters... not hard... The power they produce is hard not to play with... lazy people with heavy feet are the cause for the bad rap running them like race cars... head gasket failures on the 6.4 are rare at moderate power levels and driven by folks who's parents didn't buy it for them. don't stomp on a cold engine... never stand on it like a gasser- roll into the power... don't just drop off of high boost creating excessive back pressure- that'll blow a head gasket quick like- ease off the boost. don't idle them for long periods as the pistons will wet stack... this advice is not specific to the 6.4, it's good habits of competent diesel owners, which don't have near the issues of lazy lead footed twits drunk on power.

the ULSD is unavoidable... all you can do is use the extreme maintenance schedule for filters or put a better filtration system on it, and add back at least a hint of the lubricity that existed before the sulfur was removed... cetane for most makers advice is 45... most available on the road is 40... boost the cetane if you can w/ a quality product. EGR's make a mess of intakes and has it's way with oil... either change oil based off of laboratory analysis and advice, or every 5k miles with your fingers crossed. contaminated oil takes out lifters which scar camshafts... reroute your ccv, as the big rigs do- to atmosphere, but do it responsibly by using a catch- bypass gasses mixed with oil mist slop up boots and intercoolers, and they coke on turbo blades- ultimately they make it into the combustion chamber where they burn into the exhaust coking on cats and DPF's, creating backpressure and excessive heat which burns up valve seats and cracks pistons after a while- add to this a regen process and you could take that engine out easily, and it can be avoided by a simple reroute of the CCV which costs $10 or so to do right... again, this advice is not specific to 6.4's or even PSD's, it is simply common knowledge of responsible and savvy diesel owners who understand the difference between gassers and diesels. usually, they actually own one and intend to take care of it, instead of just talk shizen about it on the interwebz every time they can.


but anyway....

I found this site long ago, and because the references in other forums about specific items... I thought it was a place where folks a little better than other forums may hag about... turns out I was wrong... I joined recently and participated in threads just to be slapped at by 'interwebz tough guys with post counts' lending them pseudo authority... too damn funny... but, alas, I'm over it... you guys can have it.

toylandcruiser, you lost all cred when you interjected Bill Hewitt... It demonstrates your knowledge and understanding is off of internet accounts and not experience. that makes you dangerous to those with an interest in learning truth, and nothing more than a forum punk.... you earned it, you got it. if this offends you- good. you need to be set correct in effort to protect the reputation of the forum...

Why is he disliked? All he works on is power strokes. So somehow you are the expert? Instead of attempting to put yourself above me as you don't know anything about me, why don't you explain why you dislike him? I've researched a lot and he seems to know quite a bit about the trucks. Or are you just a tough internet guy?
 

drewactual

Adventurer
i'm tougher than you ever will be.... let's just get that out of the way...

i don't report to be an expert on this matter. that is you painting a picture you think you can defend or attack better... i'm categorically distrustful of anyone who claims they are 'experts'... engineers of these rigs know a thing or two about a thing or two, and more than most, but they don't operate them or repair them... mechanics know a thing or two about a thing or two as they open them up and repair issues encountered, which are most often user error but sometimes engineers mistakes that engineers should have listened to more often than they do... users know a thing or two about a thing or two because they operate the dang things. you are none of these... you just collect crap from the internet and decide you are an expert... you maybe are, on the other hand.. you are an expert of rumor... otherwise known as a BS artist.

Bill Hewitt is a BS artist too... no wonder you cotton to him.. he uses customer rigs to experiment... he openly tells you that... he claims, as you do, to understand things long before Ford or Navstar do, and preaches to repair them "if you just pay me $50 a month subscription".

one in point: Degas bottle caps. He declares they are the cause of HG failure. He says spending $5 on a stant degas cap will keep most rigs from blowing HG's... He's right in the fact that the mechanisms buried in that simple item sometimes foul- allowing air into the system where they aren't supposed to (only 'sposed to let air out, and only over 16psi... did you know that? you're the expert and all)... he's not even close to right that this is the cause for "most HG failures on the 6oh and 64"...

I'm done with you... you are a twit... this forum is injured with your presence... I'm done being a part of it.
 

2025 deleted member

Well-known member
I always looked at that powerstroke youtube guy as someone who really knew his stuff. No doubt he likes to hear himself talk, but on the surface he seems like he knows those motors well.
 

drewactual

Adventurer
in all forthrightness, he has likely past his curve and is basing off of hard evidence and experience, now... it wasn't always this way, and much of him is still suspect. it's like basing your actions off the reports from a known liar- you may suspect what is being said is accurate, but you better by gawd verify it before applying pressure on the trigger. Speak with a true certified diesel mechanic, and one with a positive reputation in the industry, and ask them if they are familiar with Hewitt. They may have more interest in hashing on about him where I really don't.. I don't know the guy... I think he means well... He should present himself as someone who 'thinks' instead of someone who 'knows', as there would be some healthier powerstrokes around if he did. From what I understand, he has some really good mechanics that work for him...
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
i'm tougher than you ever will be.... let's just get that out of the way...

i don't report to be an expert on this matter. that is you painting a picture you think you can defend or attack better... i'm categorically distrustful of anyone who claims they are 'experts'... engineers of these rigs know a thing or two about a thing or two, and more than most, but they don't operate them or repair them... mechanics know a thing or two about a thing or two as they open them up and repair issues encountered, which are most often user error but sometimes engineers mistakes that engineers should have listened to more often than they do... users know a thing or two about a thing or two because they operate the dang things. you are none of these... you just collect crap from the internet and decide you are an expert... you maybe are, on the other hand.. you are an expert of rumor... otherwise known as a BS artist.

Bill Hewitt is a BS artist too... no wonder you cotton to him.. he uses customer rigs to experiment... he openly tells you that... he claims, as you do, to understand things long before Ford or Navstar do, and preaches to repair them "if you just pay me $50 a month subscription".

one in point: Degas bottle caps. He declares they are the cause of HG failure. He says spending $5 on a stant degas cap will keep most rigs from blowing HG's... He's right in the fact that the mechanisms buried in that simple item sometimes foul- allowing air into the system where they aren't supposed to (only 'sposed to let air out, and only over 16psi... did you know that? you're the expert and all)... he's not even close to right that this is the cause for "most HG failures on the 6oh and 64"...

I'm done with you... you are a twit... this forum is injured with your presence... I'm done being a part of it.

Phew. Internet tough guy. I better watch my back
I'm categorically distrustful of most forum "experts" as everyone is an expert on forums. I don't cotton to him. I rarely if ever watch it. All I did was read this thread and searched. You're losing credit trying to be tough on the Internet. Just FYI :) my level of concern about you and really this subject is pretty low. The video just struck me as funny as everyone was bashing dodges front ends and fords have front end issues. As I said before I dislike both of the trucks. Just providing another outlet of info for the op as he is looking. No need to get your panties in a bunch.
 

redthies

Renaissance Redneck
No you try to coddle your own ideas and get upset when people challenge your little world. It's OK. I'll just leave my knowledge over here. I wouldnt want to challenge your belief with fact.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

Look, there you go again. Talking down like an Internet tough guy. I'm not upset at all. In fact, I appreciate the education about the 2v vs 3v heads with the 5.4s. I never claimed to "know it all", but you sure do. I'm not sure which "facts" you refer to that I apparently don't believe. Please enlighten me further. I'm serious. Explain to me what I have gotten wrong. I like to learn new things.

We have obviously decided that our interweb personas don't get along, yet ironically I bet if we bumped into each other on the street, we'd have a lot in common and get along fine.
 

Darwin

Explorer
Are there many high milage original motor 6.4's? I haven't seen any but would be curious how many are out there.

The Cummins also doesn't seem to have the problems with ULSD like the CP4 pump Fords and Chevy's. Whenever I have looked under the hood of a Ford I am amazed that people can actually work on them, they definitely looked more cramped than the Cummins. Also, if you blow a head gasket on a Ford powerstroke is typically only one head gone through and replaced or do they do both?
 

drewactual

Adventurer
I've never seen a 64 make it past 230k on a stock engine... That particular one was all highway miles and meticulously maintained. Deleted, however, there are several pushing 400 on otherwise stock motor... I think fomoco specified 350 for the service life, and many hard parts are going to be ready to go at that point, and due to heat. The cam and power band is higher (and mucho wider) than its predecessors, and again due to managing soot... The heat kills... Turbos and seals are usually the first to go, and usually around a buck fifty on a stock engine, and around 200 on a deleted engine... That's the first major expense a owner should expect on an otherwise healthy engine. It can be pushed well to 250-300 by using quality synthetic oil and a bypass filter, and one of the two leading nano oil additives... This is the reason I use only high quality oil on the rig- turbo shafts and seals... High flash point.. molybel to fill imperfections... Sodium to float particulates and keep coming at bay... The engine doesn't need it as much as those high revving ******** hauling turbos and the heat they generate- always let them cool to less than 300* on pyro1 in effort to protect them.

Piezoelectric injectors are the bombdigity, but demanding of the hpfp.. I've personally seen 28k psi at the rail, but have heard of others nailing 30k+ psi... I don't run mine hard... The lift pump, or hfcm is the issue in my humble opinion- there is no warning when they fail... The hpfp can maintain prime and a driver would never know it's down until he demands more than the hpfp (volume wise) can prime to the bowl... Then the driver experiences sudden loss of power when the hpfp runs dry, and it immediately starts to grenade... The lubricant missing (uses fuel as lube) and it just can't maintain integrity... The next issue with them is the regulator internal to them... They go bad, and it's a part that can't be replaced- whole pump has to go... The next issue is tainted fuel- especially and specifically water... Water doesn't lubricate very well, especially when it's steamed or just waiting for air/space to steam. It just takes a little, and several passes is enough to take it out.. greatly reduce this concern with a airdog, fass, or fuel labs lift... The pump provides more than ever needed in volume, can be monitored, and has a much larger water separator. The return to tank allows any over supply to harmlessly head back to tank, and live to be filtered several times on average before it's burned.
 

drewactual

Adventurer
..... All that said... The 5r110w is rock solid. The axles are more than fine... The suspension is adequate for stock wheels/tires and Ford's intended use.. the ball joints are good.. The panhard rod is weak- really easy fix and eliminates death wobble in most cases... Keep it tight and aligned, don't abuse it, and the chassis and drivetrain will outlast most people. Up the power and traction bars are about a must- the leaves will warp over time. The hub centric wheels take a lot of stress off the ball joints and hubs. I don't like sealed bearings, because I like to service-and they will be replaced with serviceable parts, but the lack of zerks hasn't impacted me.

Some trucks display a weird hop/float around 45-50mph... It's thought to be harmonics, and its about the only thing that explains it.. brains much heavier than mine have been trying to isolate and figure that out for years... There are things to reduce and eliminate it, but it's there and should be known. It usually requires an additional brace between the beams not far behind the trans cross...
 

Darwin

Explorer
I have no doubts that what you are saying probably increase the engine life, especially with all those modifications, oil additives, bypass filters, the "bulletproofing" etc. For someone that likes the tinker and work on their trucks they may not be as bad as their reputation makes them out to be, however it seems like you are just trying to overcome many design flaws built into the motor. I am not a powerstroke guy, but who knows what they will build in the future and I try to keep an open mind hoping to see diesel technology improve regardless of brand, for now though I stick with the Cummins. I like the straight six, two less injectors, not having to add special additives, no need to "bulletproof." If the OP is still reading this thread let us hope he/she is doing all the research to make a smart intelligent decision before spending a lot of money on a truck and gets one that suits his needs and desires.
 

thethePete

Explorer
Even just a quality EGR flush such as Terraclean on a regular basis will help keep things running properly. The soot buildup in the EGR cooler is part of what causes them to fail. (A fairly common failure point on the 6.4, but not one that requires a cab-off repair)

The Fords do seem cramped to work in, even compared to the Chev, which is also a V8, but they engineered the truck to have the cab lifted for service work, which allows for the tighter packaging, also things open up quite quickly once you take off a few major components for a lot of the repair work. Cab-off takes about 2h or less to do, and could techically be done with a few jack-alls and tall stands, but is easier and safer with a real 2-post hoist.

drewactual, it's clear you've got a lot of experience with these trucks as well, there's nothing I can really say or add to that off hand, other than a quality aftermarket lift pump system makes a lot of the HPFP issues go away. Also helps with mileage. I prefer Air Dogg just because I have more experience with them, but there are several great options out there. They also provide you with a much better and more standardized primary fuel filter, which never hurts. When I replaced the failed EGR coolers on our fleet F550 (around 200,000km), I replaced them with Bulletproof Diesel's tig-welded upgrade units. Very stout and much higher flowing than stock, they use stock cores so the external appearance is almost indescernable, even to the trained eye. Other than that, deleting the DPF is probably the best thing you can do for these trucks, and being impeccible with your oilchange intervals. The stock compound turbo setup really is a thing of beauty and helps give it that massive torque curve. Again, a slight (50-100hp) tune with deletes makes these engines a really great option. Certainly cheaper to maintain than the newest generation of diesels, and as previously mentioned, tons of untapped power, which lends itself to longevity when left untapped.
 

drewactual

Adventurer
Pete: not an expert... I just watched a helluva lot of Bill Hewitt... :)

Darwin: The split between Ford and navstar along with emissions standards introduced when the 64 hit the street are the problems... There are weaknesses but it's not as big a deal as it seems I've given in testimony, here. Everything you need to do to these things to ensure longevity can be done in one weekend.

The simplicity of the Cummins can't be denied. Ford stuffs them in the 650+ models... They lost out hugely and dodge won big time with that relationship/contract... They never caught up with the drivetrain, though. There body panels rust at a moments notice. You'd have to dump $10k plus in a 5.9 or 6.7CTD to get the power reliably of the 6.4... The 6.7 scorpion is coming along, though, and will soon be comparable to the 64...

Dodges use of interior space is hurrendous compared to the Ford... The backseat on anything other than the mega is terrible for traveling any appreciable distance. Gauge layout is not as good as Chevy or Ford. Power options in terms of generation isn't as bold as Ford. There are blind spots in the ram Ford doesn't suffer from. Resale isn't as good.. but that's what I was about to say earlier:

Why would anyone spend $60k on a rig and not take care of the shortfalls any mass produced (read: lowest bidder) truck has? This is true for any of the big three.

It pushes, it pulls on any of them.
 

thethePete

Explorer
Look, there you go again. Talking down like an Internet tough guy. I'm not upset at all. In fact, I appreciate the education about the 2v vs 3v heads with the 5.4s. I never claimed to "know it all", but you sure do. I'm not sure which "facts" you refer to that I apparently don't believe. Please enlighten me further. I'm serious. Explain to me what I have gotten wrong. I like to learn new things.

We have obviously decided that our interweb personas don't get along, yet ironically I bet if we bumped into each other on the street, we'd have a lot in common and get along fine.

No "internet tough guy" here. Just frustrated with someone challenging professional opinion and experience with hearsay and second hand knowledge. It's also obvious on this site far and wide that people are insulated in their beliefs about certain topics and have little room for outside views if they don't follow their own. You may not be like that all the time, but it's a theme here and this conversation is no different.

I also never claimed to be a "know it all" either. I'm not claiming to be the pinnacle of knowledge on the subject. I am claiming my legitimately earned time and experience and nothing more. I still have a lot to learn in my trade, that's why I picked it. You can be in it for 30 years and still learn new stuff every day. But I do know that I'm good at what I do, and that I have first hand knowledge and experience. Trust me, if I was going to make bull**** claims I'd have aimed a lot higher than what I've touted so far.

As for "facts" you got wrong or don't believe: I never once suggested that the 5.4 was a superior motor to the 6.7 diesel. I said it's better than the 6.2 Ford big block. It is. The 6.2 is a good motor, it responds well to power adders, but from what I've seen, it's got such poor fuel mileage that the 5.4 surpasses it even when loaded. These are all gasoline engines.

Dodge has crap front ends. I don't know why they're so horrible, I believe it has a lot to do with spindle design and the fact that the balljoints are loaded the opposite way the Fords are, but that's just speculation on my end. Dodge also has crap transmissions. The 68RFE is notoriously weak and poorly designed. It fails under stock power levels often enough to have a reputation for it. Ford transmissions are rock solid, and while they do fail, they have a much, much lower failure rate than Dodge.

Everything breaks, and everyone makes good stuff and everyone makes crap. I try not to fanboy, I just find stuff that works and value it for that.

I wasn't going to engage you further, but I saw you're local and you're right, I'm sure outside of this conversation that got heated, we'd probably get along fine. Looking at your signature, you obviously have good taste.
 

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