3/4 Ton... Dodge or Ford?

[redthies]

Pete, I was going to walk away and delete my posts and right off this thread completely as another brand bashing exercise. I know you never "claimed" to know it all, and I am seeing that in the world of Fords you probably " know it most?" it just came across that way. I read peoples sigs for clues as to their background in vehicles and life, and yours has no info. I'm sure it would bring an avalanche of annoying PMs, but if you had "Ford master tech" or whatever they call guys that have been with them for more than a short time, (and know that you don't need a left-handed crescent wrench to change a muffler bearing:sombrero in your sig, I probably wouldn't have been so willing to engage. It would probably lead to lots of "hey, can you pull an oasis on xxx for me", but it will also lessen the number of people "challenging professional opinion" if they know it is in fact that very thing.

The Fords I've owned have all been "OBS" 92-97 or older. I've had a '96 F250 with 7.5 and ZF5, a '92 F350 with a built auto and 7.5, a '96 F350 7.3 with ZF5 (my only brand new Ford), and a '97 F350 7.3 with built E4OD. This last truck now lives in southern Chile after driving there from Alaska. I prepped it myself for Central America trips, and then sold it to a friend who drove it hone to Chile over two years. He only had two issues. CPS went on day two of the trip just before they boarded the Alaska ferry (it had been replaced under the recall only 6 months earlier), and then the rear diff clutches went bad just after they crossed the border from Peru into Chile. I've also owned a '77 F250 hi-boy, a '78 Bronco (both 351 4 speeds), and the only 2wd truck I've ever owned was a '69 F100. I wish I still owned them all! My Cummins trucks (all 6 of them) have been totally reliable. Ive never even had front end issues, and I hope the '13+ radius arm system is the end of those issues! I've had great luck with all my domestics, except for one K2500, but then I try to buy what I know to be solid contenders, whatever the brand.

What part of Van are you in? Let's grab a beverage some day...

 

[thethePete]

I don't have my master tech yet, just a handful of courses and more by the day/week; and I definitely wouldn't advertise it anyway, because as you mentioned it leads to a whole lot of "my truck is making this noise when I do this, what is it?" and "can you look this up for me" stuff. Just easier that way.

The older iron was pretty solid. Not fast, nor quiet but it'll get you there and you'll forget you attached the Titanic to your bumper. I have a buddy back east that straight traded his F150 for a 97 7.3PSD just recently. I'm a little jealous of him.


This issue with Dodges are the balljoints and tierods. I'm glad you've had good luck with them, but they are notorious for a reason.

I'm in Surrey, near New West.

 

[Darwin]

I will take the bad ball joints(fixed with lifetime warranty Carli's), and bad tie rods (replaced with EMF rod ends) in place of the fuel hog 8 cylinder CP4 high pressure oil head gasket blowing 6.4 any day of the week, and I don't care if pulling the cab was meant by Ford engineers to make it easier to find your way around that crowded engine bay.

My 5.9 cents. :26_16_2::26_16_2::26_16_2::ylsmoke:

 

[drewactual]

I will take the bad ball joints(fixed with lifetime warranty Carli's), and bad tie rods (replaced with EMF rod ends) in place of the fuel hog 8 cylinder CP4 high pressure oil head gasket blowing 6.4 any day of the week, and I don't care if pulling the cab was meant by Ford engineers to make it easier to find your way around that crowded engine bay.

My 5.9 cents. :26_16_2::26_16_2::26_16_2::ylsmoke:

before you start bashing crap, at least get your facts straight so you can manage some credibility... the 6.4PSD doesn't and never has used a Boach CP4, CP3, or CP4.3... they use a Siemens K16. Head gaskets aren't a threat unless people blow them by running ridiculous tunes and driving them far outside the intent of the engineers, such as drag racing them or sled pulling... I know you're proud of yourself for your purchase, and I reckon that's good- but you were and are no smarter a shopper than others who bought a duramax equipped chevy, or a powerstroke or scorpion equipped ford.

furthermore- Ram's less than optimum use of fuel is THE cause for all the diesel resentment from tree huggers.. if you ever see a powerstroke or duramax 'rolling coal', that user went out of their way to achieve that- cummins do it out of the factory.

 

[thethePete]

I will take the bad ball joints(fixed with lifetime warranty Carli's), and bad tie rods (replaced with EMF rod ends) in place of the fuel hog 8 cylinder CP4 high pressure oil head gasket blowing 6.4 any day of the week, and I don't care if pulling the cab was meant by Ford engineers to make it easier to find your way around that crowded engine bay.

My 5.9 cents. :26_16_2::26_16_2::26_16_2::ylsmoke:

A few more corrections, the 6.0 was the one that popped headgaskets, the 6.4 was specifically designed with features to avoid that happening again. Most notibly headbolts the size of your wrist (hyperbole, since people have a hard time picking that up around here). If you don't care about how the engineer desgined the system to work, then I'm not sure there's any point in even trying to hold a sensible discussion with you. I'll take a modern desgined engine that wasn't carved with a hammer and chisel and actually achieves reasonable fuel economy numbers over a replace-me-yearly transmission and a crap front end. My .5C (I'm Canadian, the dollar isn't so great right now).

Like drewactual said, sounds like you're happy with and proud of your rig, that's great, but first off, it's almost 20 years old. If you have any dream that it's even comparible to a modern truck in any metric, you're fooling yourself. Second, you have a 5-spd, which eliminates one of the Ram's biggest shortfalls. And 3rd your truck is far from stock, which is an apples and oranges comparison. You are making ignorant and uneducated statments against people who are knowledgable in the field and at this point I'm not even sure what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[legendaryandrew]

I think I'll stick with my fuel hog 8.1 vortec that costs less to fully rebuild than an injector pack on a modern common rail...lol.

 

[drewactual]

I think I'll stick with my fuel hog 8.1 vortec that costs less to fully rebuild than an injector pack on a modern common rail...lol.

heheheheeeheheheheeeee- yup..... all said, the power (TQ) vs. economy for a diesel blasts the power vs. economy for a gasser, period... they SHINE at a steady RPM over a loooong haul with weight in or behind them... they are a massive compromise otherwise... If a person has reasonable and legit use for a diesel, there is no substitute... if a person is trying to cram a diesel into their lives because of the twisties and fun factor, they are chasing their tales, and bitching on interwebby forums about their shortfalls....

:smiley_drive:

diesels are freakin heavy... unless it's a pusher, the engine is out front... front ends move laterally... all that weight on joints, and then add weight on joints+bouncing offroad, and.... well.... Dodge gets a bad reputation, chebby is almost out of the running (IFS), and Ford isn't far behind dodge... IF, IF they were used as intended, the chebby is fine, the dodge is fine, and the ford is fine- each with nuances and aggravations that can mostly be remedied. take them out of the envelope, though, and those nuances become headaches and massive issues. and again........ the EPA didn't help... I'm all for cleaner air, but not at the cost of using consumers as lab rats, which they are all about doing and the reason these engines face such criticism....

 

[thethePete]

I think I'll stick with my fuel hog 8.1 vortec that costs less to fully rebuild than an injector pack on a modern common rail...lol.

And this was the crux of my earlier comments hinting towards getting him in a gasser of some variant, before Darwin decided to make an all-out attack on all things not-his-diesel.

 

[Dalko43]

No dog in this fight (yet) but I am interested in eventually buying a used domestic diesel pickup.

I've always leaned towards a used 5.9L cummins (2003-2007) because it ticked a lot of boxes: manual transmission, fully boxed frame, solid front axle. But this thread motivated me to do a bit more research into the truck and sure enough there is a bit in the way of reliability and maintenance issues that come with this truck. I also looked into a comparable Ford F-250, but I still see a lot of issues.

2004 Ram 2500:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults;jsessionid=yS2KWBzQLTcjtBp2rFJxBvknRTXhkbL3Mnhp56vZgvbK9gG4sBmB!-721696947?prodType=V&searchType=PROD&targetCategory=A&searchCriteria.model=RAM+2500&stats=111907%2C9%2C8%2C489%2C12%2CRAM+2500&makeStats=&jsonBaseURL=%2Fdownloads%2Ffolders%2F&searchCriteria.model_yr=2004&searchCriteria.make=DODGE&searchCriteria.prod_ids=111907

2004 Ford F-250:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults;jsessionid=yS2KWBzQLTcjtBp2rFJxBvknRTXhkbL3Mnhp56vZgvbK9gG4sBmB!-721696947?prodType=V&searchType=PROD&targetCategory=A&searchCriteria.model=F-250+SD&stats=215120%2C4%2C3%2C245%2C83%2CF-250+SD&makeStats=&jsonBaseURL=%2Fdownloads%2Ffolders%2F&searchCriteria.model_yr=2004&searchCriteria.make=FORD&searchCriteria.prod_ids=215120

The Ford has fewer complaints and recalls, but quite a few more Technical Service Bulletins than the Ram.

I looked at more recent recalls/TSB for the more recent models from both brands, and both sides have definitely made improvements, but both still have issues recognized by the NHTSA.

From someone with a fresh perspective on this, it seems both Ford and Ram have their pro's/con's; I definitely don't see one truck having an obvious advantage over the other.

 

[IdaSHO]

As much as I prefer Fords over Dodges for many reasons, for that vintage truck Id lean towards the Dodge, unless you plan on dumping some coin and work into the Ford right off the bat.

The Ford IMO is a much better truck, but a 2004 will have the 6.0 that will need some work to deem reliable.

 

[adam88]

Ford 6.0l best engine ever made. Everyone thinks they suck so you can find them cheap. My 6.0l bulletproofed will be going long after all these new high tech crap engines are sitting in the scrap pile.

 

[2025 deleted member]

If you can stomach a full bulletproof they are nice. I think it was the last year of the 6.0 maybe 06 or 07 that Ford had the least amount of problems with. Even less than the 7.3 which some people seem to really like.

 

[IdaSHO]

Ford 6.0l best engine ever made. ....... My 6.0l bulletproofed .........

yeah.

Exactly what I said.

If you go for the 6.0, plan on time $$ to make it a good motor.

Out of the box IT IS NOT

 

[adam88]

yeah.

Exactly what I said.

If you go for the 6.0, plan on time $$ to make it a good motor.

Out of the box IT IS NOT

Hehe wasnt replying to you neccesarily just coincidence both posted.

 

[drewactual]

IH/Navstar still held the rigging when FoMoCo introduced the 6.4 in 08 model year... before ford was forced to implement the new emissions standard, the IH/Navstar 6.4 (before Ford got it and it picked up the label 'powerstroke') had it all over the Ford 6.0, as it was an engine produced by lessons learned on the 6.0. but mandated emissions killed it... I'd like to see what that engine would have come to if those two giants didn't have their falling out like they did. but anyway...

supposedly, the best 'heavy duty' light truck made in that era was the Ram in model year 05.5... it has the lessor complaints and TSB's of any truck over that period. I'd still have my Ram if my life hadn't changed and I went from having a bachelor's toy to having to consider hauling family complete with dogs... the Ford is cavernous compared to the Ram, and the differences in maintenance and upkeep are about the same- just different.