3/4 Ton... Dodge or Ford?

[Darwin]

"bulletproof" is a buzzword for the gullible, no vehicle is 'bulletproof' even the venerable, and highly reliable Cummins. The "bulletproofing" was done to address the many design flaws with the powerstroke motor. Don't forget when it comes to injectors, with the powerstroke you are buying 8 instead of six as compared The Cummins. The powerstroke also has glowplugs, unlike The Cummins, all the ones I have seen tend to have starting problems in cold weather if all the glowplugs and electrical are not up to spec. I like the milage my old Cummins does when on the interstate, unloaded as high as 21 to 22 mpg. I also like it's track record for a million mile motor. Take your pick, some like the powerstroke and speak highly of them like Drewactual, they also have a larger cab if you have a family (I don't), so something to consider.

 

[trbon8r]

Going back to the OP's original post, I have to wonder how many times this same scenario is going to keep playing out before GM realizes there are more people (particularly commercial fleets) that rule out their HD trucks because of the IFS than buy them because of it. I say this having personal experience with lifted IFS GM trucks. The IFS isn't the devil some people make it out to be, but it isn't without significant drawbacks either.

 

[tgreening]

Cummins has their share of problems. They aren't trouble free, at least these days. A lineman from my local power company had to come out to my shop to repair one of the feed lines from a transformer on the pole. (Sixteen hundred amps of 440/3-phase into my shop and I managed to burn off a leg at the pole. Go figure). Anyway, I was checking out his new Dodge bucket truck and he told me his maint. dept had to have 5 complete engine replacements in 2015. Not his truck, but over all. None of the new diesels are perfect, they are ALL stupid expensive to fix, and few private owners can really justify ownership.

 

[drewactual]

What was that scissor lookin front axle thing Ford attempted in the late eighties early nineties to answer IFS range to SFA strength??? I forget... I think I may have purposely forgotten.. maybe you shouldn't remind me...

As I said before, diesel engines are heavy.. an axle with all those joints under the engine is asking for issues.. it's my wager that ram and Ford are watching gm more than gm.is watching them... As soon as they figure it out, Ford and dodge will join the party. in theory it's better, in practice it ain't..

Someone should introduce a truck with the bed in front that looks like a amphibious landing craft, with lessor weight on the non drive axle.. make a silly strong and tough truck.. it would do that, and while winning the ugly duckling award at the same time..



edit: it was buggin' me... I remembered it all at once when I saw this pic: TTB.... grrrrr.... good concept to an engineer... engineer's of that era and on that project had bounties on their heads...

 

[2025 deleted member]

Going back to the OP's original post, I have to wonder how many times this same scenario is going to keep playing out before GM realizes there are more people (particularly commercial fleets) that rule out their HD trucks because of the IFS than buy them because of it. I say this having personal experience with lifted IFS GM trucks. The IFS isn't the devil some people make it out to be, but it isn't without significant drawbacks either.

For a commercial fleet the GM is a hands down winner IMO. I thought we were talking offroad trucks?

 

[tgreening]

in all forthrightness, he has likely past his curve and is basing off of hard evidence and experience, now... it wasn't always this way, and much of him is still suspect. it's like basing your actions off the reports from a known liar- you may suspect what is being said is accurate, but you better by gawd verify it before applying pressure on the trigger. Speak with a true certified diesel mechanic, and one with a positive reputation in the industry, and ask them if they are familiar with Hewitt. They may have more interest in hashing on about him where I really don't.. I don't know the guy... I think he means well... He should present himself as someone who 'thinks' instead of someone who 'knows', as there would be some healthier powerstrokes around if he did. From what I understand, he has some really good mechanics that work for him...

That last sentence. There's a difference in Bill and what Bill says, and what his shop actually does. His shop Forman will tell you flat out..."Bill makes videos, and I fix trucks". Their maintenance opinions don't always coincide, but as he said, he fixes the trucks. I've used Bills shop for 3 different vehicles and had nothing but stellar performance out of them. He (Forman) has left $thousands$ on the table of money I was willing to spend that he flat out told me I'd be wasting. Not a whole lot of shops will do that.

 

[trbon8r]

For a commercial fleet the GM is a hands down winner IMO. I thought we were talking offroad trucks?

Commercial fleets aren't exempt from handing heavy loads on rough roads that beat up the front ends on IFS trucks. Just ask the oilfield guys.

As far as off roading, you can put me in the club of guys that cracked the weak aluminum IFS casing on a 1990 GMC during an off road adventure. If the aluminum case didn't suck, GM wouldn't have changed it to an iron casing in the later HD trucks.

 

[2025 deleted member]

Commercial fleets aren't exempt from handing heavy loads on rough roads that beat up the front ends on IFS trucks. Just ask the oilfield guys.

Oh I understand. I beat hard on a 2011 duramax 3500 on rough roads pulling heavy trailers. IFS was never an issue. My main issue was the interior.

 

[warwickscout]

dodge trucks have big rust problems .check out how many have rust over the wheel wells.there is a reason dodge trucks are cheaper then ford trucks. I do like power wagons though

 

[2025 deleted member]

I see just as much rust on Fords.

 

[drewactual]

dodge trucks have big rust problems .check out how many have rust over the wheel wells.there is a reason dodge trucks are cheaper then ford trucks. I do like power wagons though

this is true.

I live at the beach, and because of which I keep a good coat of wax on everything I own, and keep them meticulously clean.... I wash the undercarriage just as thoroughly as the body, using soap and water- and my Dodge rusted in the bend above the rear wheel from the inside out (bubbled paint)... That tweaked me... but whatcha gonna do?

totally and absolutely off subject:

these things absolutely ROCK- especially for undercarriages!!! spray it on, let it sit a few, rinse it off (low pressure underneath!!).. boom..

 

[drewactual]

I see just as much rust on Fords.

are you in the rust belt? I don't think anything is immune where salt is piled on roads... except maybe the carbon bodies or 'vettes...

but anyway... I've spoke about all I can about this... I'll close with: I love Ram's for their simplicity and straight forward function... I love fords for their redonkulous power (that you can get out of a CTD, but will spend '>x3' to get it while chopping into reliability (if you're not talking 12v)... Engine: Cummins... Transmission: Ford (as good as the Allison)... Body: Ford... Longevity: push- both are going to cost you at some point. Payload/towing: push- both will do what you need... cost: Ram... Resale: Ford... parts outside the country with modern diesels: I'll take a gasser, please...

 

[Dalko43]

What was that scissor lookin front axle thing Ford attempted in the late eighties early nineties to answer IFS range to SFA strength??? I forget... I think I may have purposely forgotten.. maybe you shouldn't remind me...

As I said before, diesel engines are heavy.. an axle with all those joints under the engine is asking for issues.. it's my wager that ram and Ford are watching gm more than gm.is watching them... As soon as they figure it out, Ford and dodge will join the party. in theory it's better, in practice it ain't..

Someone should introduce a truck with the bed in front that looks like a amphibious landing craft, with lessor weight on the non drive axle.. make a silly strong and tough truck.. it would do that, and while winning the ugly duckling award at the same time..



edit: it was buggin' me... I remembered it all at once when I saw this pic: TTB.... grrrrr.... good concept to an engineer... engineer's of that era and on that project had bounties on their heads...

So you're saying an IFS makes more sense for carrying the heavy weight of a diesel?

That's the first time I've heard that.

I know Chevy's Silverado 2500 and suburban lineup is now IFS, but I'd always thought that was more for ride comfort and on-road handling than anything else.

 

[east_tn_81]

In the 80s and 90s it was only the F250 that got a TTB. One Tons got a solid.

 

[drewactual]

So you're saying an IFS makes more sense for carrying the heavy weight of a diesel?

That's the first time I've heard that.

I know Chevy's Silverado 2500 and suburban lineup is now IFS, but I'd always thought that was more for ride comfort and on-road handling than anything else.

I didn't say anything close to that.... IFS has it advantages in a theoretical sense with vehicles- but not these rigs we're discussing... it is still being developed and not perfected... GM doggedly holds to it, and RAM and Ford don't for 3/4+ trucks... GM MAY figure it out and present something that is as strong as a SFA, but allowing independent travel, while remaining suited for the 3/4+ton trucks... If they do, and it is proven, how long do you think it would take RAM or Ford to follow suit? I wager not long... because IFS is superior to SFA for over the road travel as well as for articulation while keeping the other side planted and maintaining pitch/yall, and traction by remaining in flat contact. IFS is flimsy compared to shear and stencil strength, and not by a little. IFS is superior in terms of control.

IFS isn't suited, as talked about ad naseum, for the heavy front ends of diesel powered trucks... Now if you were to take one of the european designed smaller diesels and push the design envelope to produce TQ needed to haul and tow, you could likely make a IFS shine... That, in my humble opinion, is how that nut will be cracked.