4WD PU buying advice

[goodtimes]

My one word of caution on this one is people LOVE to say this and it's completely true that the engine itself has a ton of life in it. However most of the remaining components like bearings, ball joints, power steering pumps, alternators, etc. (which are often the same between a gas or diesel) have a design life target of 100k usually. So I'm personally leery of high mileage vehicles unless its a great price because regardless of gas or diesel you can often be putting some steady cash into replacing factory parts as they wear out all around on the vehicle (the bonus is lots of aftermarket parts to extend life are available when they do go). The diesel engine may run long but it's injectors, glow plugs, fuel pump, fuel filter, emission stuff most definitely do not and they will also nickle dime you. Buyer be informed.

You will definitely have to do more maintenance on a older vehicle, and some of that maintenance is more labor and cost intensive than the maintenance that you would do to a new truck - but they don't just fall apart at 100K. They don't just fall apart at 200K either. If that were the case - no one would be buying them.

With a new Ram 3/4 ton 4x4 with a diesel hovering in the $50,000 range - doing a couple thousand dollars worth of maintenance to an older truck with a $15,000 price tag looks pretty good - especially if we are talking about a truck that spends most of its time sitting in the garage - as the OP stated his truck would.

Certainly, everyone has different comfort levels relative to vehicle age - but just because a truck has more than 100K miles on it doesn't mean it's worn out.

 

[pods8]

You will definitely have to do more maintenance on a older vehicle, and some of that maintenance is more labor and cost intensive than the maintenance that you would do to a new truck - but they don't just fall apart at 100K. They don't just fall apart at 200K either. If that were the case - no one would be buying them.

With a new Ram 3/4 ton 4x4 with a diesel hovering in the $50,000 range - doing a couple thousand dollars worth of maintenance to an older truck with a $15,000 price tag looks pretty good - especially if we are talking about a truck that spends most of its time sitting in the garage - as the OP stated his truck would.

Certainly, everyone has different comfort levels relative to vehicle age - but just because a truck has more than 100K miles on it doesn't mean it's worn out.

I never said it would just fall apart I just highlighted that 100,000mi is often the target design life for numerous components on vehicles. That doesn't mean they'll just all fail right then but prior to that mileage you'll probably have far fewer components wearing out as opposed to after. I no way was I implying you NEED a new vehicle either. However if you find something like 50,000mi on it you might find a better balance between initial cost and ongoing maintenance, just an opinion on my end. It's not just the cost of making repairs it is also the timeliness of when they might occur. For a rig I'm going to travel hundreds of miles away from home in I error towards reliability a bit more because wrenching on the side of the road or getting repairs remotely during a trip sucks.

Mainly I was just highlighting the statement people like to make about high miles cummins diesels can be a tad misleading and just because the engine will run for hundreds of thousands definitely doesn't mean the rest will. In your specific mention of a 150,000mi vehicle it wouldn't be uncommon for the transmission it be a prime piece that might be wearing out and that isn't a small chunk of change/easy repair on this size of vehicle. So all that needs to be factored into a purchase decision.

Buyer be ware is all I'm trying to highlight, it would be a shame to talk someone into a vehicle purchase and they not be aware of some of the secondary costs that go along with that selection.

 

[pods8]

I was trying to highlight the gas aspect earlier. Dodge 1/2T gasser has 26gal which I found limiting when I had it. The 3/4T gasser has 34gal which should be decent for most runs around me, I'd probably carry some extra gas if running far out in the desert. I know one of the guys at WTW only got a 26gal tank on his Ford 3/4T gasser but transferflow, for instance, makes a 46gal tank he had installed which opens up things for Fords (not sure if there is a factory option for a larger tank) but that does run over a grand so again factor it into decisions.

 

[JCMatthews]

First I am going to recommend that you join wanderthewest.com and see what people there are saying. Also I am going to throw out a plug for one 1/2 truck. I don't love huge trucks. When I was buying, I did a lot of research. My research was to find most of what I wanted or needed without ending up in a long bed 4 door diesel truck with 300k miles on it. My requirement were:

1. Under 20 K
2. 4 full doors to haul 5 comfortably
3. 6 ft bed
4. MPG in the high teens
5. reliability
6. Off road manuverability
7. ability to haul a pop up camper

I was moving from a Jeep Cherokee, and I was really used to its small size. However, trucks in that comparable size would not carry a camper well or fit my family for very long. So, I started looking and driving full size half ton and 3/4 ton trucks. Two of the manufacturers (Dodge and Chevy) share the 1/2 ton body with that of their 3/4 ton siblings so they are just as wide and just as long. The F150 has a huge hood and cab and a 5 ft. bed and was plenty wide. I looked at some Fords that actually had square beds. I wanted at least a 6 ft. bed and 4 doors. (I need to add here we also owned a Ford Expedition that we sold to buy our truck, so I knew what it was like to take full size rigs on long trips and off road)

This led me to look at a double cab (DC) first generation Tundra. That means a DC from '04 to '06. From my research, I learned that Toyota increased the power of 4.7 L by about 40 hp in '05 to 282 hp and 325 ftp of torque. In '06 they lost about 10 hp due to some kind of emissions change. Now this is not a hemi, but it is respectable.

So I chose the '05 DC Tundra. I was able to find one for $19,500 with only 42,000 miles on it. I have a truck only a few inches longer than a Ford Excursion that has a large back seat and a bed that measures 74.3" x 49.3 "x 20.7" inside. Yes it does not do everything I want perfectly but it does everything really well. I can pull a 20 ft. camp trailer, haul my kids, and still travel some offroad in Moab, Utah desert roads (White Rim would be easy), and forest service roads. I spent a few days last summer in Colorado driving Imogene Pass and Engineer pass in the San Juans, and had no trouble at all. Suspension wise all I have done is a level kit that only required new shocks in the front coil overs. They are Bilstien 5100 adjustables. Not difficult or expensive to lift this IFS as stated in an earlier post.

Now, I listed the plan to carry a pop up camper. To help the suspension handle the added weight, The upgrades are easy. I will install a set of rear leafs built to give me a small lift and to handle the weight. I will probably go with Deavers. Then up front I am planning on using Old Man Emu 886 coil springs. As long as I don't get taller than 2.5"s I will not have to worry about dropping the diff or my CVs wearing. Tundras with similar set ups are hauling pop up camper very successfully. There is a couple right now somewhere in South America hauling a Palamno pop up in a Tundra and all he did was air bags.

Just my $.02. I have loved this truck as a daily driver, and also for our week long trip to Colorado. I am also very glad I did not end up in a worn out desiel truck.

Here are a couple of links to read first and the second one. Happy reading!

It took me over night to find this video link. Driving Slick Rock Road, Alpine Co. CA
Bill Harr, a member of ExPo, shows how a Tundra w/ a FWC Hawk can off road. His suspension does not appear to be modified

 

[Durango]

Waaaay to many options!~ But I guess that is half the fun of it! Now of course I've complicated things by accidentally hitting the XPCamper site where "It was love at first site!" (At least till I hit the price list!)

But now I'm leaning toward getting a 3/4 ton and a used slide-in that if we like the lifestyle we can later sell and convert the truck over to a flat-bed and the XP.

Plus I see XP is working on a "clamshell" design for a smaller truck. (Would probably go great on a Tundra.) Too many decisions!

Steve

PS My thanks for all the advice. It has been invaluable!

 

[ExpoMike]

Waaaay to many options!~ But I guess that is half the fun of it! Now of course I've complicated things by accidentally hitting the XPCamper site where "It was love at first site!" (At least till I hit the price list!)

Boy do I know how that goes. Went through the same thing myself. Damn, if I could only hit the lottery for some big money!!!

 

[Brushbuster]

It sounds like you travel pretty light. Depending on the type of equipment you want in a camper, there are plenty of half tons that will work. Several of the new f150 trucks have a 7700lb payload with a crew cab 4x4, which often gives around 2000lb of payload. A four wheel camper hawk (or shorter "raven" model) would be a great fit. A custom phoenix camper (built outside of Denver) could work well too.
Personally I like my roomy crew cab and 5'6" bed. The truck rides great, but still has a short wheelbase and great turning radius. A lot of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks will beat you too death off road, and most of the chevy trucks I've driven a lot off road will squeak and rattle like crazy off highway (just my experience).
Right now I'm hauling a 7' hardside camper and the truck is overweight but it handles very well. I'm looking at either the FWC Raven or a Phoenix camper now as the taller and wider hardside doesn't physically fit most of the places I like to explore.
If I were to buy a brand new truck right now it would still be another f150, because it works well for my use. Although there is certainly nothing wrong with a bigger, just keep in mind that a 3/4 ton diesel will probably have less payload than a lot of half tons.

I just bought a phoenix and installed it on my 2010 supercab f150 cab f150 4x4 I installed air bags and it seems to handle it OK lots of power and brakes fine. The loaded weight is 8300the or so. I weighed the truck before and after camper install. The camper is a 8good ft on a 6.5 ft bed nice size comfortable been in it almost a week now in below freezing to lows of 39the thanks for the heater.

 

[Durango]

Hey folks,

"Durango" is back and hoping for a last minute burst of counsel. After wending my way through all the different campers out there I kept getting led back to the FWC "Hawk". Not the fanciest and certainly not the cheapest but even people who have gone to other brands say FWC is bullet-proof. And to date me in my youth the saying among IT professionals was, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM."

And of course I ran into the "nothing really available among used" so I'm going with a NEW (gulp) Hawk with camper jacks, the 3.0' Waeco frig, double batteries, HW w/ outside shower, the LED lights interior lights upgrade and the Fantastic fan. (I'll tap in and install a Wave-3 heater later.) Sound OK? (Can't add roof racks for garage clearance with my 8' doors.)

So FINALLY now for my question: I think we're going to buy a new PU. (Yes, I know this is silly financially but I'm finding clean, late model used PU's are almost the same money.) And after meandering through the 3/4 tons we (surprise!) find they drive too much like a "truck". (Don't hate me!) So question:

If I go with a 2012 Ford-150 XLT Eco-boost with the max tow pkg (and the Off-Road pkg) I have a maximum payload weight rating of 1,840#. (Ford does have a 2,310 Heavy Duty Payload Pkg for the F-150 CC but they are few and far between.) Most of the time it will just be the missus and me but occasionally four people in the cab.

NOTE: We'll be leaving the camper on basically full-time and doing mild to moderate four-wheeling and some over-the-road.

Soooo ... Is this going to be a livable situation? I need to make a decision on which bed I am going to put the Hawk in this week for ordering purposes.Sure would appreciate input...

Steve

PS Our fall-back is a F-250 CC w the 6.5 bed and the 6.2 liter and it would be "tolerable" but of course the mileage sucks. (At 10,000 miles per year I calculate a "mileage penalty" of around 800 bucks with gas at 4.00.)

 

[UglyScout]

If I go with a 2012 Ford-150 XLT Eco-boost with the max tow pkg (and the Off-Road pkg) I have a maximum payload weight rating of 1,840#. (Ford does have a 2,310 Heavy Duty Payload Pkg for the F-150 CC but they are few and far between.) Most of the time it will just be the missus and me but occasionally four people in the cab.

NOTE: We'll be leaving the camper on basically full-time and doing mild to moderate four-wheeling and some over-the-road.

Soooo ... Is this going to be a livable situation? I need to make a decision on which bed I am going to put the Hawk in this week for ordering purposes.Sure would appreciate input...

Steve

PS Our fall-back is a F-250 CC w the 6.5 bed and the 6.2 liter and it would be "tolerable" but of course the mileage sucks. (At 10,000 miles per year I calculate a "mileage penalty" of around 800 bucks with gas at 4.00.)

If you are leaving it on all the time - I think you are going to wish you had the 3/4 ton or at least the upgraded capacity 1/2 ton. With the camper, options, water, people, food, gear, etc you are going to quickly run out of payload.... And people are saying that the eco boost mileage isn't all that great when you add the weight of a camper and the wind resistance of a camper. They do great empty - but loaded or towing they turn into V8 mileage trucks....

I love my 3/4 ton Chevy crew cab with an auto - does it all and then some.

 

[brianjwilson]

I just sold my hard side and plan on buying a 6' pop-up to ride on my f150 full time. My f150 is a crew cab 5.5' bed, 06 with only the 7200 gvwr. Personally I think you will be fine with that truck and camper, though I would advise the 6.5' bed and whatever payload package you can come up with. This is also one of those times to choose a truck with lower geared axles. If the camper is on fill time the suspension is easy to deal with too. It's no big deal to add an extra leaf spring in back to help carry the weight, and bilstein shocks or similar will help a lot with stability. A hawk really isn't much weight to begin with anyway.

 

[Durango]

Thanks for that. Whatever F-150 we wind up with will have the Off-road package with the 3.73 locking differential.

 

[camper357]

4WD PU advice

I agree with UglyScout. If the camper is staying on almost full-time then get the F250. Your half-ton ride quality advantage is lost with a camper. I'd also avoid the turbo v-6 if you choose the f150. With the turbo engaged you will lose the extra mpg's the turbo has to offer, which I think is really the only reason to get the turbo.

I've had small campers on the last two generations of F150's. They are capable, but I would choose a more robust drive train if my truck was not also my daily driver.

 

[brianjwilson]

That may be a true point regarding mileage. I don't know what sort of mileage anyone is getting with the ecoboost, especially when the truck is always carrying a load.
One of the big reasons I chose the f150 initially was because I wanted a full crew cab while keeping a short wheel base. The more compliant ride off highway was a big contributor too though. On the other hand a solid front axle would also be nice some times. lol

 

[Prybry]

+1 vote for Dodge Power Wagon

Keeping the camper on makes the case for a lower geared truck... no doubt.
I suggest the Power Wagon (not because I own one, but because I use mine for nearly the same uses and it works flawlessly)
Factory 4.56 gearing, Factory electric locking differentals, Factory skid plates from nose to tail, Factory 12K warn winch, Strong 5.7 Hemi, ALL Covered by Factory Warranty!
The only weaknesses in the PW are load capacity and mileage...
The PW can handle a camper no question, but add some air bags to make the ride more comfortable and level the truck out.
As for mileage, I get between 11 and 13 mpg with the camper on... drops to 10 or 12 offroad or towing my boat... but the 34 gallon tank will keep you moving.
My wife would not put up with the smell and noise of a cummins so the Hemi fit us better from that respect.
I should also mention I pull a 18ft fiberglass bass boat while hauling the camper... the 4.56 gearing makes that possible, anything less would make the tranny beg for mercy.

 

[BCHauler]

I don't have any experience with them, but I think the ecoboost f150 is a great choice. Right now you may think that the camper will live on the truck, but you may find that camper comes off pretty easily, and that that f150 is really nice to drive without as well. The turbo will be a boon at the elevations you are in. To top it all off, there are many, many f250-350 drivers out there who feel like they have to much truck for their needs and are looking to downgrade for better fuel economy. If the f150 ends up being insufficient (I doubt that it will), you would be able to exchange it for a heavy duty gasser with little or no trouble.