80 or 100

[LRNAD90]

everyone always says it would be perfect if there was a 100 with the 80's coil front solid axle setup. I agree.

Well, its not like the logic was lost on Toyota Engineers, who married the new 100 series body with the existing 80 series chassis and running gear, and called it the 105. Too bad they (unfortunately, rightfully) deemed it unprofitable to bring it to these shores, but they were pretty popular in Australia...

And if anyone really wants a 100 series with a solid front axle, here you go...
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/for_sale/blueberry/blueberry.htm

 

[Buckru]

It seems that most of the comparison threads always seem to focus on how well a vehicle can wheel and under what conditions the truck is suited for. There is an entirely different aspect that often goes overlooked and that is the ability to do field repairs.

With the intruduction of each series, they become a little more difficult to repair yourself. More wires, electronics etc etc. From what I have read, the ifs of a 100 is far more difficult to do a field repair than the solid front of an 80. Also, the electronics are more sophisticated in the 100 making field repair that much more difficult. Don't get me wrong, I like the 100 series. I just wouldn't want to have to work on one out in the field.

Some might argue that the 100 is much newer and less chance of that happening but remember folks, every day our trucks get older and that much closer to parts wearing out.

Buck Buchanan

 

[ShottsCruisers]

I assume when Mr T decided to put IFS on the 100 series they didn't essentially swap in a Tundra front end. Or did they?

Mountain biked? You're a better man than me!

No they did not. The LC pinnings are heavier duty and more beefed to provide the extra durability needed for the LC applications.

 

[ShottsCruisers]

it is inherently more fragile than the 80 setup. regularly used on trails, it will take a toll on the suspension and steering components far more than a 80 ever will.

toyota took cause to improve on-road ride with the 100 while sacrificing offroad.

Fragile?
Regularly used?
Take a toll?
80 ever will?

There are no facts to prove this as gospel. Using the word "fragile" when referring to the 100 shows your exaggeration. It's plain irresponsible and the extreme low numbers of failures prove it.

Regularly used on trails? How many years and how many miles do you have on trails in a 100-series? I have 7-years and over 100+ four-wheeling trips. Nothing has taken a toll on my 100. Now, in 2008 folks are wheeling them like nuts and the front suspensions aren't failing. I think it might be time for you to sell your 100 and buy an 80. Or, maybe trade for my Lexus.

And 80's ever/never will? The two years and 20K miles I owned my '93 the front axle was rebuilt TWICE. First time by a US expert. Then, after a simple front diff seal swap, a bearing inside failed. Rebuild #2 here we go. Oh yes, wait, then there was a third rebuild on one side when the known issue of the lower knuckle bolts coming loose caused knuckle failure and leakage. I since learned the wheel can fall off! OK, 125K on the 100...I had two boots put on and two CV's. The second set of CV's are still going. I wouldn't trade the 100 parts for 80 parts for the world.

Let's be objective in our posts? Fragile? Take a toll? Good night!

 

[ShottsCruisers]

John,

Nice videos, but how what do they prove?
Traction Control is very nice, but it's function can be replicated with footwork on any 4x4 vehicle. And then what are lockers for?

Regards

Alvaro

It's not supposed to prove anything. Walt and I had a blast. That's all.

Oh, and like I said on that post....the videos were simply to show articulation differences. That's OK to show to somebody asking about the differences? You should be happy...the 80 won out. If I were you I'd point everybody to that link.

 

[ShottsCruisers]

It seems that most of the comparison threads always seem to focus on how well a vehicle can wheel and under what conditions the truck is suited for. There is an entirely different aspect that often goes overlooked and that is the ability to do field repairs.

With the intruduction of each series, they become a little more difficult to repair yourself. More wires, electronics etc etc. From what I have read, the ifs of a 100 is far more difficult to do a field repair than the solid front of an 80. Also, the electronics are more sophisticated in the 100 making field repair that much more difficult. Don't get me wrong, I like the 100 series. I just wouldn't want to have to work on one out in the field.

Some might argue that the 100 is much newer and less chance of that happening but remember folks, every day our trucks get older and that much closer to parts wearing out.

Buck Buchanan

I'm not a tech though Robbie from the TTrails Team and former Slee master mechanic said that the 100 would have the edge over the 80 in this area. Easier to diagnose and repair overall. Of course it depends on what fails.

For me....talking front suspensions? I can see breaking a CV in the 100 and slapping a spare. I cannot see swapping a birf being easier....mess, grease, cleaner, dirt, etc. The all-in-one CV sounds easier to me.

 

[alvarorb]

John,

You might be right. What do I know about 100 Series.
We just spent a week on the Con. We did the trail twice, we started on the Lake Tahoe side on Sunday. Got to Loon Lake Tuesday night and Wednesday morning we were leading the Wagon Run back in.

During our 7 day stay on the Rubicon we only saw one 100 Series. It came down Cadillac Hill to Rubicon Springs on Friday afternoon and went the way in came on Sunday when the event was over.

For those of you not familiar with the Rubicon Trail, the segment from the top of Cadillac Hill to Rubicon Springs is about 2 miles long. The trail is 9.5 miles from Look to the top of Cadillac. Over the years, the hole trail specially Cadillac Hill. It has gotter progressively worse, lots of off camber obstacles with huge nasty rocks to overcome.

Even though this 100 Series only drove a small section of the trail, it did remarkably well. It came out with only slight body damage. But I have to say, this is the same 100 Series that a year ago broke a front diff going over a 8" ledge.

My point is that I'll buy into the 100 series being "better" than an 80, the day I see it do a week on the Con with no issues. Are you game for next year?

Regards

Alvaro

 

[ShottsCruisers]

John,

You might be right. What do I know about 100 Series.
We just spent a week on the Con. We did the trail twice, we started on the Lake Tahoe side on Sunday. Got to Loon Lake Tuesday night and Wednesday morning we were leading the Wagon Run back in.

During our 7 day stay on the Rubicon we only saw one 100 Series. It came down Cadillac Hill to Rubicon Springs on Friday afternoon and went the way in came on Sunday when the event was over.

For those of you not familiar with the Rubicon Trail, the segment from the top of Cadillac Hill to Rubicon Springs is about 2 miles long. The trail is 9.5 miles from Look to the top of Cadillac. Over the years, the hole trail specially Cadillac Hill. It has gotter progressively worse, lots of off camber obstacles with huge nasty rocks to overcome.

Even though this 100 Series only drove a small section of the trail, it did remarkably well. It came out with only slight body damage. But I have to say, this is the same 100 Series that a year ago broke a front diff going over a 8" ledge.

My point is that I'll buy into the 100 series being "better" than an 80, the day I see it do a week on the Con with no issues. Are you game for next year?

Regards

Alvaro

Alvaro. Thanks for the invite. And no, I won't be there. And if I were to come I'd bring the 80. If I had a Jeep Wrangler I'd bring it over the 80.

Your responses almost always come back to the Rubicon Trail. Dude....that's ONE trail. One. A trail a stock Wrangler can complete because of it's small size. In fact, a stock Wrangler would SPANK an 80 on the 'Con. This has been proven over and over again! That doesn't make it better OVERALL than an 80. So yes, the 100 is at a disadvantage on that ONE trail. I've never disputed that.

What you forget or do not want to acknowledge my friend is that for 95% of the trails we run in our wagons, the 100 can hang 100% with an 80 which negates it's slight added capabilites over the 100.

So, if you want to start a thread about "Rubicon in an 80 or 100" or "Blanca Peak in an 80 or 100" you won't see my posts touting the 100. For the other 95% of the trails you will. The 100 will do them just fine, will last forever like the 80, though afford the driver all the fine improvements the 100 brings to the table.

And for those newbies reading....if you plan to wheel your 100, do upgrade the front diff to an ARB ASAP. What you read about the 100 front-end being fragile and wheeling will take a toll? That's plain bull as time has shown. If it were not true we wouldn't see folks building and wheeling their 100's like mad since prices have dropped. They'd gravitate to another platform that held up to the task. OBJECTIVE! HONEST! Get rid of the agenda!

 

[alvarorb]

John,

Please read my post from a few days ago. I talk about rock crawling.
I agree with you that on most trails the 100 is the more confortable way to go. But, before I continue, I ask you to please try to keep the conversation civilized, I'm not calling you HONEST or otherwise. You and I have our own POVs on this subject and that does not mean we an agenda. At least I don't have one. If you start with the insults, I'll won't reply again.

As far as the stock Jeep Wranger. You are wrong. A stock Jeep Rubicon is able to do the trail, but it takes a lot of rock staking. Stock Jeep Rubicons do the trail during the Jeepers Jamboree. They have teams of people staking rocks to make the trail possible. If you wanna go to extremes, there are pics from early part of the last century of Ford Model Ts on the trail. Why would you bring a knife to a gun fight?

If you want to know about minimum trail requirements about this trail, please visit http://rubithon.com/trail-runs.shtml

You are right, Rubicon is not the only trail out there. I mentioned the Con because I was there last week. I also consider hard trails places with more than just a few optional obstacles.

As far as percentage of trails. To me I like to balance my free time 50% on hard trails, 50% on easy expedition type travel, where what's important, besides sharing with friends, are the beautiful landscapes. And the bigest worry is what we'll have for dinner. The 95% of trails does not really apply here.

Regards

Alvaro

 

[ShottsCruisers]

John,

I talk about rock crawling.

As far as the stock Jeep Wranger. You are wrong.

As far as percentage of trails. The 95% of trails does not really apply here.

"Rock Crawling" is a term used for a wide range of difficulty.

Ask Scott Brady about the Wrangler and the Rubicon Trail. By the way, a Rubicon is a Wrangler. You do not stack rocks for 80's?

You might run 50-50 trail-types....what I am saying is if you had a list of the top 1000 non-buggy trails in the US, the 100 will do just awesome on 950 of the them. The 80 might make it up to that top 25 and from there you need a hot 40, a Wrangler, or some other small and/or SWB rig.

To keep pounding away at how superior an 80 is for those 25 out of a 1000 trails is unfair to the newbies. It's misleading. I'll take the rig that is best 950 out of 1000 times. Thank God I'm also lucky enough to have an 80 that's good for 25 out of the 1000 trails as well.

 

[Buckru]

I'm not a tech though Robbie from the TTrails Team and former Slee master mechanic said that the 100 would have the edge over the 80 in this area. Easier to diagnose and repair overall. Of course it depends on what fails.

For me....talking front suspensions? I can see breaking a CV in the 100 and slapping a spare. I cannot see swapping a birf being easier....mess, grease, cleaner, dirt, etc. The all-in-one CV sounds easier to me.

I have been fortunate to meet and wheel with Robbie a few times and will agree that his cruiser knowledge would be hard to beat. I will belive it when I hear it or read it from Robbie first hand. I think we can all agree that sometimes second hand info can become convoluted and I am not saying you are intentionally doing so.

A busted birf is not hard to change. Just remove the spindle/rotor as a complete unit and slide the birf and axle out. I know, I have done it myself but not due to breakage. I have not replaced a CV so I have no first hand knowlege, just what I have read. I also know from reading that you don't do your own work on your trucks. So how can you say with 100% certainty that the 100 is easier to perform field repairs?.

Buck Buchanan

 

[ShottsCruisers]

I also know from reading that you don't do your own work on your trucks. So how can you say with 100% certainty that the 100 is easier to perform field repairs?.

Buck Buchanan

Sometimes I feel like Bill O'Reilly.

You never seen me write such a thing.

Robbie responded to this a couple years back on MUD. He gave the nod to the 100-series for in-field diagnosis, etc. Search maybe? That'll find his exact words.

My comment on CV vs birf is simply an example I thought about.

 

[alvarorb]

I feel like Bill O'Reilly.

You seen me write such a thing.

Enough said
You're going on my ignore list.

Alvaro

 

[ShottsCruisers]

Gotta luv this from Scott's Rubi trip..............

"The challenge keep coming after the gatekeeper with large boulders and tight lines requiring constant attention to prevent body damage. The trail leads to the trees and our only recovery of the trip. The Wrangler Rubicon high centered on a fallen log and required a quick pull. The trail was too tight to avoid the tree, and the limited ground clearance of the stock vehicle resulted in the stuck."

"The beginning of the trail was quite intimidating due to several vehicles having broken down. a large crowd had gathered and sparks were flying from welders and grinders working on the broken trucks. Our trip coincided with the end of the Toyota Rubithon, so Toyota truck and Land Cruisers were a common site. The later model Land Cruisers (FJ80) suffered the most damage, which was often relegated to the rear bumper, quarter panel and fender flares. More than one FJ80 had the fender flares strapped to the spare tire. More than just caution is required when taking a large, full bodied SUV through the Rubicon."

YES....I KNOW HOW HORRIBLE THE WRANGLERS ARE ON THE RUBI AND HOW EASY THE 80-SERIES HAVE IT.

Ya-all have a great weekend! You too Alvaro (if you can hear me).

 

[adventureduo]

You guys are very entertaining!! :lurk:

Too funny, if you think the Rubicon is rock crawling... then go to Johnson valley.. and you'll be in for a real surprise. :wavey: