A new '07 4Runner for Expeditions

[Redline]

What do you 4Runner & Tacoma guys think of 255/85R16s on a new 4Runner?

I have read here that 265/75s will fit with little or no perceivable rubbing. Depending on where the minimal rubbing occurs with 265s, I'm wondering if the 1-inch taller but narrower 285s would clear or almost clear with no lift.

I would love to get about 1.5-inches of lift from tires alone (maybe a little trimming like Scott did on his Tacoma). If need be maybe a very small lift from adjustable Danahoe's adjustable coil overs which would also allow for height adjustment from adding bumper/winch weight.

How much handling loss might occur with 1-2 inches of lift in the front. Lots of caster loss?

If I decide to change from a Wrangler to a Toyota (it's as likely that I won't as I will at this point; tough decision, lots to study) long distance road comfort and handling are some of the motivating factors to make the move to Toyota. I want to be fully informed before any purchases as I don't want to loose the excellent, responsive handling by making mild modification. Obviously stock is best for on-road but off-road would be greatly improved by a few sensible mods, and probably necessary for some of the moderately difficult trails I will want to travel.

 

[Scott Brady]

What do you 4Runner & Tacoma guys think of 255/85R16s on a new 4Runner?

There will be a lot of trimming. I test fit the 255/85's on the 4x4Runner I had (2004 model) and fender clearance was an issue with 1.5" lift.

 

[Redline]

Wow, that ARB 4Runner only had 1.5-inches of lift? It looked like more in the Off Road article. But 1.5-2.5-inches sounds like a nice increase for one of these 'low riders'. Add another .75-in. or more from tires and the off-highway benefits should be very noticeable.

It's helpful to know how 255s will/won't clear. One either needs less tire or more lift. Maybe 265/75R16 is a better choice.

Related to this I called both Total Chaos and Demello OffRoad today to learn a bit about adding a lift to a 4Runner. Sounds like a Danahoe's adjustable coil overs and Total Chaos' upper A-arms would allow for a couple of inches and allow the proper caster to be dialed in too. If I decide to do this expensive experiment I want the nice ride and control on-highway to mostly remain with the 4Runner. I like the idea of being able to adjust the height, particularly if I decide to lift before a bumper/weight is added, I can boost it up later to compensate for weight & sag.

James

There will be a lot of trimming. I test fit the 255/85's on the 4x4Runner I had (2004 model) and fender clearance was an issue with 1.5" lift.

 

[Redline]

IFS Ignorance

I have a fair amount of experience but all of it with solid axle trucks, I think I know the answer but assuming is not good enough. If someone would be so kind as to answer this very basic question...

When the front of a IFS 4Runner/Tacoma/FJCruz is lifted does the lower front (differential?) section of the truck raise with the lift? This area appears pretty low on the 4Runners.

I'm assuming it does but have seen what appears to be a lowered frame-mounted differential on GM trucks after a lift.

Asked another way: Will a 2-in. lift on a new Toyota raise the front/middle 2-inches while the rear, solid axle remains in place, only to be lifted by taller tires?

Thanks for filling in a gap

James

 

[calamaridog]

Couple things.

The basic design of the 5spd auto is the same from the v6 and v8 but the one mated to the v8 has some beefier cast iron parts vs. all aluminum with the v6. I really like this transmission!

Rear bumpers are not a deal breaker. You will find with the Toyota's that not everthing is available before it hits the market like the Wrangler. Don't let this deter you from having one fabbed up to do what you want it to do. There are several good fabricators within a days drive of NV who could make a wicked bumper.

I frequently wish I had gotten a v8 4runner instead of my Land Cruiser...

 

[Redline]

calamaridog:

Very interesting and helpful. I like technical info and it's interesting to learn that the V8 has a different version of the 5-sp. I agree with you on the transmission. Gearhead friends who have been listening to me rattle on about my Toyota 4Runner infatuation are amazed when I tell them how much I like this automatic tranny. I like manual transmissions in trucks. But, the 5-sp seems to drive so nice. I think the gated-shifter is a big plus, allowing extra control for willing drivers.

Yep, I know someone local who could make something crude for me, and I called 4x4 Labs yesterday which is only about 100-miles away and apparently they could do a nice custom bumper/carrier for close to 2k!

I usually consider armor an important first for my rigs, but because of the cost (custom) I think I might add a small lift first to improve clearance and reduce drag/damage IF! I sell my Wrangler and jump head over heels for a sexy 007 4Runner The little seductress.

Would you elaborate on your thoughts of a V8 4Runner over your Land Cruiser? Is it the size?

James

Couple things.

The basic design of the 5spd auto is the same from the v6 and v8 but the one mated to the v8 has some beefier cast iron parts vs. all aluminum with the v6. I really like this transmission!

Rear bumpers are not a deal breaker. You will find with the Toyota's that not everthing is available before it hits the market like the Wrangler. Don't let this deter you from having one fabbed up to do what you want it to do. There are several good fabricators within a days drive of NV who could make a wicked bumper.

I frequently wish I had gotten a v8 4runner instead of my Land Cruiser...

 

[calamaridog]

I miss having a manual transmission only when I'm going downhill. It's much easier to have the automatic the rest of the time The good thing about the 4runner and LC is the brakes are very good, unlike many other large and medium SUV's.

My thoughts on the difference between the 4runner and LC... and why I've thought about having a 4runner instead? The size is surprisingly similar actually. The LC is not that much bigger really, but sometimes the extra inch counts. You can feel the weight though, and extra 1000lbs.

Specifications - 4runner V8 / LC (UZJ100)

height - 71.1/73.2 (1.1 difference)
width - 75.2/76.4 (1.2 difference)
length - 189.2/192.5 (3.3 difference)
wheelbase - 109.8/112.2 (2.4 difference)
track - 62.0/63.8 (1.8 difference)
curb weight - 4500/5400
gross weight - 6000/6900
tow cap - 7000/6500?

The rational of buying the 4runner instead would be having a newer design (coil overs in front instead of torsion bars) and lower mileage vehicle with better aftermarket product support. Dollar for dollar I would have had a newer vehicle with less miles. I'll say this though, the 98+ Land Cruiser is the best deal in the used 4x4 SUV market. You can get a hell of a vehicle for around 20k right now.

(I'm just having remorse because mine is due for all the 90k-100k maintenance and PM that these vehicles need once every 90k-100k to keep in top form.)

At around 100k you will want to PM the water pump, starter contacts, timing belt, and front CV's most likely. Then it should be good for another 100k or so

Now, as far as lockers go, your better off with the unlocked Toyota rear end and adding an ARB. The rear ends with the Toyota elocker have been failing too much for my taste. I believe you will not need a front ARB for anything you will do in the 4runner. Most of the time the TRAC system will work fine.

Forget the rear bumper. Do the lift and tires for a bit of an edge. Drag the hitch a little and your good to go If the plastic gets a little beat up, who cares? It's going in the dumpster eventually!

 

[Redline]

Right on about the brakes. My Wrangler brakes are pretty weak, and the Toyotas are terrific, closer in performance to my wife's VW Golf TDI and my BMW M/C. Heck, even my big, old '96 F-350 has better braking power than the LJ. (I'm still on the original brakes at 120k, manual trans.)

I agree, starting with a new/newer vehicle is nice, so is more aftermarket support; advantage 4Runner (of the two named).

Manual trannys and down hill control go together!

Nice to know about the Toyota eLockers failing (not for the guys that have them). Toyotas locker is more fragile than the ARB? Why?

For some reason they aren't calling traction control 'ATRAC' on the 4Runners, but I'm sure you're correct that it will do well in most circumstances. This past April at the Easter Jeep Safari in Moab, on the Heel Revenge Trail, I watch a new stock (except for belly skid plate) FJCrusier negotiate the Hells Gate obstacle with ATRAC. A very good driver (Toyota Rep) modulating the brakes/gas drove the FJ out of a tight sidehill spot he had put the FJ into.

Size matters, bigger or smaller, depending on the task. I thought the new Tacomas, 4Runners, FJs were very wide, but the 4Runner's overall width is almost the same as the new, wider JK Wranglers. Of course narrower is often better off-highway and wider is more comfortable.

I was thinking the same thing about dragging the rear bumper... I have dragged the rear of my crew-cab F350 many times, but the Reunel rear bumper can take almost anything. My thinking was that if/when I drug the rear, lower plastic corers of a 4Runner, I might do a little plastic trimming with a sawsall . I looked under there and the bottom few inches are 'just there' not doing much other than matching the front bumper and adding to the stock look. With an eye on a replacement rear bumper the rear surely doesn't have to stay pretty forever.

I miss having a manual transmission only when I'm going downhill. It's much easier to have the automatic the rest of the time The good thing about the 4runner and LC is the brakes are very good, unlike many other large and medium SUV's.

My thoughts on the difference between the 4runner and LC... and why I've thought about having a 4runner instead? The size is surprisingly similar actually. The LC is not that much bigger really, but sometimes the extra inch counts. You can feel the weight though, and extra 1000lbs.

Specifications - 4runner V8 / LC (UZJ100)

height - 71.1/73.2 (1.1 difference)
width - 75.2/76.4 (1.2 difference)
length - 189.2/192.5 (3.3 difference)
wheelbase - 109.8/112.2 (2.4 difference)
track - 62.0/63.8 (1.8 difference)
curb weight - 4500/5400
gross weight - 6000/6900
tow cap - 7000/6500?

The rational of buying the 4runner instead would be having a newer design (coil overs in front instead of torsion bars) and lower mileage vehicle with better aftermarket product support. Dollar for dollar I would have had a newer vehicle with less miles. I'll say this though, the 98+ Land Cruiser is the best deal in the used 4x4 SUV market. You can get a hell of a vehicle for around 20k right now.

(I'm just having remorse because mine is due for all the 90k-100k maintenance and PM that these vehicles need once every 90k-100k to keep in top form.)

At around 100k you will want to PM the water pump, starter contacts, timing belt, and front CV's most likely. Then it should be good for another 100k or so

Now, as far as lockers go, your better off with the unlocked Toyota rear end and adding an ARB. The rear ends with the Toyota elocker have been failing too much for my taste. I believe you will not need a front ARB for anything you will do in the 4runner. Most of the time the TRAC system will work fine.

Forget the rear bumper. Do the lift and tires for a bit of an edge. Drag the hitch a little and your good to go If the plastic gets a little beat up, who cares? It's going in the dumpster eventually!

 

[devinsixtyseven]

caster and camber decrease as the upper control arm drops, since it's mounted at a positive angle of attack and shorter than the lower control arm--makes it more stable on big hits, when you need stability most.

if you stay at or below 2.5" lift, you should still be able to get your truck aligned (this is for a tundra, but probably similar/same for v8 runner) at +0.25 degrees camber, +2.00 degrees caster, and +0.04 degrees toe, both sides absolutely equal (dont accept that road crown garbage).

with the new body style 4runner, i'd definately get a mild ride height adjustment, at least in the front...it has less ground clearance from the factory than older models, for whatever reason. might just be the weight, i dunno.

the front diff doesnt drop with a coilover lift unless you get a drop bracket/cradle lift (different terms for the same thing). you can get a diff drop spacer, which will help your cv joint angles, theyre cheap and easy to install. youre also correct regarding the rear, if you change the ride height in front with the coilover and dont do anything in the rear, the back only goes up from the larger tire. fwiw, you can get a 34" or 35" tire in the rear wells of a yota without trimming anything. the front is the hard part .

-sean

 

[k6uk]

Diff drops are not necessary with the new 4runner. There is plenty of room to lift without getting your CV angles too extreme.

-Mike

 

[Redline]

You have Lexus rims... The tire PSI sensors are in the stock wheels as I understand it. If/when you change to a different/aftermarket wheel without the sensor what happens? Nothing? Do you simply just loose the low tire sensor feature (fine with me)?

Also, how important do you think the rear window deflector is to help keep the window clean? I like the look of the Runners better without them but think they might be very functional?

redLine/James

My truck rides really good, it feels more "alive" but not too stiff at all. The 20% firmer rear springs match the Donahoes very nicely (the bilstien 7100s are great too), I might get firmer rear springs if I hauled a lot of gear - but most of the time my truck is empty and I didn't want a harsh ride.

The donahoes feel great up front, very good ride and excellent off road.

I have the stock gearing with the V8 and it really feels fine. I was worried about it a lot when I did it, but it turned out to be a non-issue. I'll get lockers and gears someday... but honestly I don't need the gears as it stands.

-Mike

 

[Redline]

2nd Test Drive

I went on second test drive yesterday, this time in a V6 SR5 at about 4500-ft instead of near sea level with a V8. The V6 goes very well, though I think I would still prefer the V8 power/torque even with the MPG and premium gas penalty.

Salesman and I went on a little easy off-highway test, small ruts, rocky-road, I answered one of my questions. The 4runner does power-brake nicely, the electronic gas pedal doesn't shut off the power when you are on the brakes, good for slow speed control. Tried downhill decent control; what a joke. Not even on a difficult or super steep hill but the ABS starts grabbing/cycling loudly and speed is not super slow. Thankfully this feature has to be 'turned on' it is normally off. The brakes work normally and downhill control was maintained nice and slow using the brakes normally/correctly, who'd of thought?

Did a short blast up to 30-40-MPH then jammed on the brakes to test the ABS in the dirt, halted the Toy well. I assume there may be situations off highway where puling the ABS relay could be beneficial if the ABS makes a habit of engaging in technical places where you don't want it to.

Climbed a little steep hillside, smooth but no road there, just a grade for eventual construction, it did well, had the center diff locked in Lo-range. Like this 5-speed, low range first gear seemed pretty low. Anyone know the ratios for this transmission?

It certainly needs lift, the front diff is low and the skids plates/break over-over angle were found a couple times/easily. I think three inches of suspension lift (Danhoes? or OME?) and 32 or narrow 33 inch tires would make a huge different for about 4-inches more clearance. I can see that high-speed runs across the desert could be very fun (Note to self: not too fast/try not to crash

 

[Ryanmb21]

Tried downhill decent control; what a joke. Not even on a difficult or super steep hill but the ABS starts grabbing/cycling loudly and speed is not super slow. Thankfully this feature has to be 'turned on' it is normally off. The brakes work normally and downhill control was maintained nice and slow using the brakes normally/correctly, who'd of thought?

Did you use the DAC while 4Lo and 1st gear?? It's my understanding that the system only works when in 4Lo and 1st gear, if you are in 2nd or above it doesn't work. If so, I'm surprised you didn't like it I thought it worked pretty well.

 

[Bergger]

Did you use the DAC while 4Lo and 1st gear?? It's my understanding that the system only works when in 4Lo and 1st gear, if you are in 2nd or above it doesn't work. If so, I'm surprised you didn't like it I thought it worked pretty well.

It only operates in 4Lo and I too am surprised at your results. I have not tried it myself but have heard good things from others that have it.

 

[Redline]

Yep, I tried it in low-range first gear...

Remember, my take on it is just 'my opinion', filled with my personal experiences and biases. It was working as designed/correctly. My point and opinion is that I can control downhill decent better, smoother, either faster or slower, using the brake pedal normally myself and instead of the electronic gizmo.

James

It only operates in 4Lo and I too am surprised at your results. I have not tried it myself but have heard good things from others that have it.