Dave Bennett
Adventurist
Hmmm... Both are good machines. I'd keep the Jeep, it with an Adventure Trailer is a sweet combo IMO.
A new '07 4Runner for Expeditions
- Thread starter Redline
- Start date
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
"4-wheel Traction Control in 4WD mode only. Rear-wheel Traction Control in 2WD mode."
Above is from Toyota's website. No mention of ATRAC that I can find, but maybe they are just calling it 'Traction Control'?
Could one probably squeeze on 265/75R16s without a lift, which would make the 4Runner about .75-inch taller? I have a set of Toyo M/T in 265/75 that are almost new that could go on a new Toyota (also have some 255/85 but I'm assuming lift would be needed). The only bad thing would be that they are Load-Range-E and might be a little stiff for that nice suspension.
Above is from Toyota's website. No mention of ATRAC that I can find, but maybe they are just calling it 'Traction Control'?
Could one probably squeeze on 265/75R16s without a lift, which would make the 4Runner about .75-inch taller? I have a set of Toyo M/T in 265/75 that are almost new that could go on a new Toyota (also have some 255/85 but I'm assuming lift would be needed). The only bad thing would be that they are Load-Range-E and might be a little stiff for that nice suspension.
Ryanmb21 said:
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
I know my wife wants me to keep the Jeep!!!
I was out trolling the car lots this morning before the salesmen were up... The 4Runner would certainly be a great driver, eating-up the road miles to get off-highway, but once there would need some money to add clearance/traction [locker(s)] for the more technical stuff. I just read Scott's Off-Road article on the ARB 4Runner as well as the thread linked above.
Looked at '06 Wranglers (no Rubicons) and a new SWB JK too... Of course my set-up rig is better that the stockers and I will need a compelling reason to buy as JK over my LJ (like Diesel Power).
I like to shop for, buy, and build rigs but you are correct TacoDoc… A Jeep and an Adventure Trailer is a good combo. With a Chaser behind my mild LJ they are probably equally capable (or close). With a 'stock' 4Runner I would probably be limiting the trailer's ability.
Decisions and MONEY!
:smiley_drive:
I was out trolling the car lots this morning before the salesmen were up... The 4Runner would certainly be a great driver, eating-up the road miles to get off-highway, but once there would need some money to add clearance/traction [locker(s)] for the more technical stuff. I just read Scott's Off-Road article on the ARB 4Runner as well as the thread linked above.
Looked at '06 Wranglers (no Rubicons) and a new SWB JK too... Of course my set-up rig is better that the stockers and I will need a compelling reason to buy as JK over my LJ (like Diesel Power).
I like to shop for, buy, and build rigs but you are correct TacoDoc… A Jeep and an Adventure Trailer is a good combo. With a Chaser behind my mild LJ they are probably equally capable (or close). With a 'stock' 4Runner I would probably be limiting the trailer's ability.
Decisions and MONEY!
:smiley_drive:
TACODOC said:
LexusAllTerrain
Expedition Leader
Well if you are not happy with the Jeep, upgrade. I am very happy with the Runner and also cosidered a 07' Jeep wrangler wich my wife likes 4 door, however for the money ( half price ) I think i made a good decision on the 4Runner, also after i saw and read about Scott's experience with the 04' ARB 4Runner, I was sold on it. I will spend about 3k on the mods and be done with it for a savings of 10.5k . I am sure i can travel next year and spend the 10k in my trip to Belize/guatemal or less...
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
Continuing with my manic study of the new 4Runner as a possible replacement for my '05 LJ I read something that is helping me stay with my Jeep, or at least give the Tacoma a second look and slow down.
In an older review from 2003 on Rockcrawler.com they mention that all 2003-up 4Runners will have a tow hitch as it is an integral part of the frame. This is not bad for strengthening/crossmember feature (I love stout bumpers & hitches), however it tells me that removing the stock hitch for an aftermarket bumper/hitch combo with more clearance will be more difficult. This might be one of the reasons there aren't any rear bumpers for the 4Runner yet (another might be not enough demand).
I'm back to the Tacoma which was my original focus, more stuff available for it (Armor, Armor, Armor
and I think I need to drive one with the 5-speed A/T. I was first impressed with the 5-sp. A/T when it was behind the V6 in an FJCrusier. This combination felt really strong to me (better than the V6 6-speed Tacoma I had just driven). I really liked the control of the gated shifter for the 5-speed [surprised I'm writing I like an auto more than a manual in this application; on-road anyway]. I'm assuming the Tacoma has the same gated shifter as the FJ and 4Runner?
And, I looked at Jeeps today too... Very few on the lot here right now, a few regular 2006s and ONE JL SWB that was sold. Looking at stockers sure made mine look good. I gave the JK another look and thought how careful I need to be about buying a Toyota. I'm sure the Toyota would please in many ways, particularly on the highway and on fast dirt, but I might have buyers remorse if Jeep was to come out with a Diesel in the LWB JK within a year or so... Steady boy Steady
In an older review from 2003 on Rockcrawler.com they mention that all 2003-up 4Runners will have a tow hitch as it is an integral part of the frame. This is not bad for strengthening/crossmember feature (I love stout bumpers & hitches), however it tells me that removing the stock hitch for an aftermarket bumper/hitch combo with more clearance will be more difficult. This might be one of the reasons there aren't any rear bumpers for the 4Runner yet (another might be not enough demand).
I'm back to the Tacoma which was my original focus, more stuff available for it (Armor, Armor, Armor
and I think I need to drive one with the 5-speed A/T. I was first impressed with the 5-sp. A/T when it was behind the V6 in an FJCrusier. This combination felt really strong to me (better than the V6 6-speed Tacoma I had just driven). I really liked the control of the gated shifter for the 5-speed [surprised I'm writing I like an auto more than a manual in this application; on-road anyway]. I'm assuming the Tacoma has the same gated shifter as the FJ and 4Runner?And, I looked at Jeeps today too... Very few on the lot here right now, a few regular 2006s and ONE JL SWB that was sold. Looking at stockers sure made mine look good. I gave the JK another look and thought how careful I need to be about buying a Toyota. I'm sure the Toyota would please in many ways, particularly on the highway and on fast dirt, but I might have buyers remorse if Jeep was to come out with a Diesel in the LWB JK within a year or so... Steady boy Steady
Life_in_4Lo
Explorer
Redline said:
That is incorrect. The 03 orig came w/ a 5000lb hitch that was bolted onto the rear crossmember. It was up high and the bumper plastic kind of 'integrated' around it.
They soon came with a "draw-tite" or U-haul type of hitch that is tubular and drops down under the bumper. it also has a higher load rating.
All of the hitches, no matter the year, are bolt-on units.
My friend is planning on a rear bumper from 4x4labs.com this winter... armor is slow in coming but it was the same for the 80 series land cruiser. I don't think the 4x4 aftermarket hit it seriously for quite some time.
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
They changed the hitch but one still needs to have the hitch as the rear most cross-member, right?
The 4x4Labs option is cool, and they are pretty close to me if I need something from them. Probably the only negative would be cost. I just called them to get an idea of what would be involved for a new/different vehicle...
Someone (me? needs to drop off their vehicle for a month or so to allow for a mock-up and then wait for Luke to have the pieces cut and then assembled. The gentleman I spoke with indicated the rear bumpers with two swing out carriers (one for hi-lift & Fuel, one for tire) usually cost around $2000.00.
The 4x4Labs option is cool, and they are pretty close to me if I need something from them. Probably the only negative would be cost. I just called them to get an idea of what would be involved for a new/different vehicle...
Someone (me?
needs to drop off their vehicle for a month or so to allow for a mock-up and then wait for Luke to have the pieces cut and then assembled. The gentleman I spoke with indicated the rear bumpers with two swing out carriers (one for hi-lift & Fuel, one for tire) usually cost around $2000.00. Life_in_4Lo said:
Scott Brady
Founder
Those 4Runners are total sleepers... I wanted to go out and buy one the day I gave the ARB 4Runner back.
devinsixtyseven
Explorer
the abs system is always active. however, it doesnt seem to activate below a certain speed, like 10mph, 5mph, something like that. i have been able to pop the abs offroad, but only doing things i oughtn't. if you're on a technical obstacle, it's not been anything to worry about in my experience. if youre going down a steep hill, and youre moving too fast anyway, youll have more to worry about than the abs.
that said, if you get on loose terrain on a very steep hill, i could see the abs becoming a problem if the vehicle got out of control and started rolling/sliding down the hill.
-sean
that said, if you get on loose terrain on a very steep hill, i could see the abs becoming a problem if the vehicle got out of control and started rolling/sliding down the hill.
-sean
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
Damn Scott, you're not making this easy for me... And sleepers are cool just because they sneak up on you
I was so impressed with the V8 4Runner last week that I was thinking of buying one (still am) and I haven't even driven one off-highway!
As always there are positives and negatives for every platform, but I haven't been able to completely stop thinking about a new Toyota, 4Runner in particular after my test drive last Friday.
Cons:
1) For me the biggest one is that I have spent plenty of cash outfitting my '05 LJ and most, if not all of that would be flushed down the toilet to start again with a new platform that is even more expensive to modify. Rear bumper/carrier would need to be 'custom', further adding cost.
2) Rear overhang is substantial I think making the above 'custom' rear bumper more of a necessity for more difficult trails than if it were not so long and low in the rear. But 4x4Labs sounds willing to make one if I give them my rig and lots of cash.
3) Lockers need to come from the aftermarket; more cost.
These first three could all be listed under one heading: money.
4) Even when set-up, a new 4Runner is certainly not the best rig for difficult/extreme trails (though it is surely plenty good for most trails and expedition travel). This is not necessarily a 'con', maybe just a trade-off for comfort.)
5) Buy a new Toy and possibly miss out on a Diesel Wrangler JK (but a JK still is not a plush as a 4Runner. The 4.7L V8 seems terrific, thought still not a diesel. With diesel comes economy and range.
Pros:
1) Comfort! (I must be getting sore & sensitive at middle age) I was so impressed by the ride of the suspension and the power, 8-way adjustable seat that I could see many comfortable hours in the saddle in one of these 4Runners. Comfort equals less fatigue and happier travel, both on and off highway. My wife would prefer that I not even think about trading vehicles because of the cost and extending out payments (starting over)... but although she is a 'trooper' and a good traveler she has commented about how the Wrangler is not a very comfortable vehicle (like when we drove to Moab in April for the EJS) and I know she would be a happier camper/traveler in a 4Runner even though I don't thin she wants to hear my rationalizations now.
2) Brakes:
Wow. The 4-wheel discs on the Toyotas kick the butt of the 4-wheel discs on my Wrangler.
3) Power
I really liked the torque and horsepower of the 4.7L V8, the thing moved forward well with the 5-speed A/T whether using part throttle or full stomp to bring out the horsepower. Maybe the V6 would be enough, as I have read many people like it, but it seems that the 2-MPG penalty for the V8 is well worth the extra power.
4) Toyota
Though I have yet to have ANY problems with my Jeep (other than the ones I have created with mods) I don't think my Wrangler can or will compete with a Toyota in the longevity & reliability departments. Toyota has a well deserved reputation for reliability and unless someone tells me things have changed, their 4x4s still seem more desirable than many others when it comes to hard use and many miles.
5) Tow, Tow, Tow Your Boat (or whatever you want)
The 7000-lb. tow rating of the V8 is nice to have, though it sounds like a lot for such a small/short vehicle. The engine and brakes are probably up to it, maybe the trans too, not sure how the 110-in. wheelbase and rear overhang would like that load or a very long trailer... but it might barely pull my old 30-ft Avion travel trailer (like an Airstream) which weighs about 7K+ loaded for a trip. The 4Runner wouldn't have to be our primary tow vehicle, but it might be able to be a stand-in for our old F-350 Diesel.
6) 'Drives Nice' for Particular Drivers
Rack & Pinion over recirculating ball; steering precision, enough said.
Neutrals
I would like a 4Runner for its ride & handling, maybe even its economy compared to a Wrangler, but how much of that would be sacrificed with a lift?
And sleepers are cool just because they sneak up on you I was so impressed with the V8 4Runner last week that I was thinking of buying one (still am) and I haven't even driven one off-highway!
As always there are positives and negatives for every platform, but I haven't been able to completely stop thinking about a new Toyota, 4Runner in particular after my test drive last Friday.
Cons:
1) For me the biggest one is that I have spent plenty of cash outfitting my '05 LJ and most, if not all of that would be flushed down the toilet to start again with a new platform that is even more expensive to modify. Rear bumper/carrier would need to be 'custom', further adding cost.
2) Rear overhang is substantial I think making the above 'custom' rear bumper more of a necessity for more difficult trails than if it were not so long and low in the rear. But 4x4Labs sounds willing to make one if I give them my rig and lots of cash.
3) Lockers need to come from the aftermarket; more cost.
These first three could all be listed under one heading: money.
4) Even when set-up, a new 4Runner is certainly not the best rig for difficult/extreme trails (though it is surely plenty good for most trails and expedition travel). This is not necessarily a 'con', maybe just a trade-off for comfort.)
5) Buy a new Toy and possibly miss out on a Diesel Wrangler JK (but a JK still is not a plush as a 4Runner
. The 4.7L V8 seems terrific, thought still not a diesel. With diesel comes economy and range. Pros:
1) Comfort! (I must be getting sore & sensitive at middle age) I was so impressed by the ride of the suspension and the power, 8-way adjustable seat that I could see many comfortable hours in the saddle in one of these 4Runners. Comfort equals less fatigue and happier travel, both on and off highway. My wife would prefer that I not even think about trading vehicles because of the cost and extending out payments (starting over)... but although she is a 'trooper' and a good traveler she has commented about how the Wrangler is not a very comfortable vehicle (like when we drove to Moab in April for the EJS) and I know she would be a happier camper/traveler in a 4Runner even though I don't thin she wants to hear my rationalizations now.
2) Brakes:
Wow. The 4-wheel discs on the Toyotas kick the butt of the 4-wheel discs on my Wrangler.
3) Power
I really liked the torque and horsepower of the 4.7L V8, the thing moved forward well with the 5-speed A/T whether using part throttle or full stomp to bring out the horsepower. Maybe the V6 would be enough, as I have read many people like it, but it seems that the 2-MPG penalty for the V8 is well worth the extra power.
4) Toyota
Though I have yet to have ANY problems with my Jeep (other than the ones I have created with mods) I don't think my Wrangler can or will compete with a Toyota in the longevity & reliability departments. Toyota has a well deserved reputation for reliability and unless someone tells me things have changed, their 4x4s still seem more desirable than many others when it comes to hard use and many miles.
5) Tow, Tow, Tow Your Boat (or whatever you want)
The 7000-lb. tow rating of the V8 is nice to have, though it sounds like a lot for such a small/short vehicle. The engine and brakes are probably up to it, maybe the trans too, not sure how the 110-in. wheelbase and rear overhang would like that load or a very long trailer... but it might barely pull my old 30-ft Avion travel trailer (like an Airstream) which weighs about 7K+ loaded for a trip. The 4Runner wouldn't have to be our primary tow vehicle, but it might be able to be a stand-in for our old F-350 Diesel.
6) 'Drives Nice' for Particular Drivers
Rack & Pinion over recirculating ball; steering precision, enough said.
Neutrals
I would like a 4Runner for its ride & handling, maybe even its economy compared to a Wrangler, but how much of that would be sacrificed with a lift?
expeditionswest said:
Last edited:
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
Do you find the stiffer rear coils too stiff? How much of the good stock ride do they eat up? How about the front?
Do you have the stock 3.73 gearing with your 285s? If so, is the performance still good & strong, close enough to stock? V8 or six?
Do you have the stock 3.73 gearing with your 285s? If so, is the performance still good & strong, close enough to stock? V8 or six?
k6uk said:Sorry for the delay.
I have 285s. With a 1" body lift, 2.5" longer rear coils (20% firmer), Donahoes in the front, and Spidertrax wheel spacers all around to help out the lexus rims. Working great for me so far!
And she does flex nicely:
k6uk
Adventurer
Redline said:
My truck rides really good, it feels more "alive" but not too stiff at all. The 20% firmer rear springs match the Donahoes very nicely (the bilstien 7100s are great too), I might get firmer rear springs if I hauled a lot of gear - but most of the time my truck is empty and I didn't want a harsh ride.
The donahoes feel great up front, very good ride and excellent off road.
I have the stock gearing with the V8 and it really feels fine. I was worried about it a lot when I did it, but it turned out to be a non-issue. I'll get lockers and gears someday... but honestly I don't need the gears as it stands.
-Mike