A "Toyota Guy" Buys a Classic

[Ray_G]

Personal opinion on why Disco I & II's and RRC's are cheap. They both have the same heritage, a chassis and drivetrain derived from the Defender.

I tend to make a distinction between the RRC/90/110/Defender/D1 heritage and the Dii (not to mention P38). There are some similarities between the D1 and Dii; but quite a few substantive differences-the porosity of the block, for example got much worse by the time you started seeing Bosch engine management in the Dii's. You really don't see the HG and slipped liner issues nearly as much on the early V8's; at least I haven't. Frame thicknesss is different too of course.
A great reference: http://www.robisonservice.com/servicedep/buying-a-land-rover.asp

 

[Boss Hog]

You guys are a wealth of knowledge!! Funny, there's some cool Discos on the road and one in the shop right now. It's always been on the list “one day”.

On page 6 of this thread is a page from the invoice of the Disco's swapped in 4.6l done in 08-09. $7k in work and almost 40k miles since then. I'm actually comfortable with the Disco's mechanicals. With Pippa, I wanted to maintain as much of a “classic” look as possible. She's stunning (in my eyes). I wanted to keep her as unmolested as possible. But with this Disco, I wouldn't worry about that. Mod it as I see fit, use the hell out of it, and wait for someone else to run into me.

I dated a hot Russian girl for awhile. She was stunning, but bat-**** crazy. When she broke up with me, I was crushed-and relieved at the same time. She would've stabbed me for sure. Got a good, sweet, Southern girl now.

This kinda feels like that.

 

[Boss Hog]

UPDATE:
Got a call from the shop-no frame damage! BUT, the force of the impact sheared off the mounts for the transfer case & transmission. And obviously the linkage is jacked up. And the rear hatch won't open.

So I'm pretty sure she's totalled. I'll look at the cost of repairs b/f I decide what to do.

 

[mpinco]

I tend to make a distinction between the RRC/90/110/Defender/D1 heritage and the Dii (not to mention P38). There are some similarities between the D1 and Dii; but quite a few substantive differences-the porosity of the block, for example got much worse by the time you started seeing Bosch engine management in the Dii's. You really don't see the HG and slipped liner issues nearly as much on the early V8's; at least I haven't. Frame thicknesss is different too of course.
A great reference: http://www.robisonservice.com/servicedep/buying-a-land-rover.asp

Agreed that the Dii/P38 "evolved" but they were still using the 215 Buick V8. As you point out block issues increased, likely do to emission goals, higher running temps and Bosch engine management. But, I did find this interesting:

Buick V8 engine

"......Unfortunately, the great expense of the aluminum engine led to its cancellation after the 1963 model year. The engine had an abnormally high scrap ratio due to hidden block-casting porosity problems, which caused serious oil leaks. Another problem was clogged radiators from antifreeze mixtures incompatible with aluminum. It was said that one of the major problems was because the factory had to make extensive use of air gauging to check for casting leaks during the manufacturing process and was unable to detect leaks on blocks that were as much as 95% complete. This raised the cost of complete engines to more than that of a comparable all cast-iron engine. Casting-sealing technology was not advanced enough at that time to prevent the high scrap rates......"

Land Rover acquired the rights to the engine in 1967. Later GM tried to buy it back.

Appears the 215 V8 aluminum design had issues to begin with, phased out due to yield issues, acquired by Rover that were able to successfully manufacture/use the engine from 67' to 99' and then emission/competitive requirements resulted in a return of the initial issues.

To your point Ray, my 95 RRC is running a 4.6L block with Isky cam but GEM ECU. Have over 100K miles it.

 

[hks3sgte]

Personal opinion on why Disco I & II's and RRC's are cheap. They both have the same heritage, a chassis and drivetrain derived from the Defender.

The Expedition Leader believes the Defender came before the Range Rover.

 

[mpinco]

The Expedition Leader believes the Defender came before the Range Rover.

Technology and designs change / evolve at different rates. What was viewed as an asset can fall out of favor in the pursuit of perception. History repeats itself. Today Bitcoin comes to mind.

 

[DiscoDavis]

The Expedition Leader believes the Defender came before the Range Rover.

What...?

 

[Ray_G]

What...?

I believe it was a comment directed at the idea that the RRC and Discos share heritage with the Defender.
If you want to be precise, the 90/110s, Discovery, and Defenders (to be truly pedantic) share heritage with the RRC.

 

[DiscoDavis]

I believe it was a comment directed at the idea that the RRC and Discos share heritage with the Defender.
If you want to be precise, the 90/110s, Discovery, and Defenders (to be truly pedantic) share heritage with the RRC.

We're on the same page. I imagine said person is thinking of the series LR

 

[mpinco]

And the Series and RRC's share heritage with International Light Line (Scouts, Travelars, .....). Both of agricultural roots and similar technology.

 

[DiscoDavis]

And the Series and RRC's share heritage with International Light Line (Scouts, Travelars, .....). Both of agricultural roots and similar technology.

One should argue that they do not. All of those branch from jeep and on the LR end the prototype that used jeep parts was the basis for all series cars to what, 1983?. IH line used leaf springs and different motors, RRC is boxy, but used a different 4wd, is coil sprung, and used buick V8's. It got nothing from the IH line.

Scout arrives in 1961? Years after the Jeeps and LR, and LC have been around. More accurate to say they were contemporaries going into the late 1960s and 1970s.

What I believe we are referencing is that by 1989, all LR vehicles shared almost* identical drive trains, frame designs. Essentially just bodies bolted on for different purposes and prices. Discovery being the cheapest, Range Rover being the comfortable, and Defender ( "One Ten" or "Ninety" to 1990MY) being the utility.

 

[mpinco]

My point was that if you look at a side profile of a Scout II and RRC they are basically the same. I use my old IH Scout hub tools on my Disco I and RRC. I swear the designers sat side by side. Or they sourced a design from the same intellectual property holder.

- The IH Travelall goes back to 1953.
- The IH Scout was 1961 - 1980
- The RRC was 1970 - 1996

From Talk:International Harvester Scout

".....International Scout's claim to fame is that it broke into a totally new market that no other vehicle had ever entered. The Jeep CJ was mainly used for work only, but the Scout could be used to plow snow and yet the wife could feel comfortable getting groceries with it, too. This new market even surprised International and it became its best selling vehicle. The sales caught the attention of other auto makers who all came out with vehicles to compete in the Scout market. Ford basically copied the Scout with the Bronco in 1966. Jeep introduced the Comando and the Cherokee. Chevy and GMC brought to market the Blazer and Jimmy. Eventually Dodge and Plymouth had the Ramcharger. The Scout started a whole new market of vehicles that America still thrives upon today......"

Missing from this perspective is that Land Rover also basically copied the Scout as a work and family vehicle. A vehicle for the farm and home. Everyone is familiar with the typical "Motor City" dealers that congregate in areas to offer/sell cars/trucks. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, ..... are typically all within a few miles of each other. Where did you find the IH Scout? Down at your local farm implement dealer where OTR trucks and farm supplies were sold. Many miles from your urban "motor city". Likely in a nearby rural town serving the family farms. Parts departments open till 2am.

 

[DiscoDavis]

My point was that if you look at a side profile of a Scout II and RRC they are basically the same. I use my old IH Scout hub tools on my Disco I and RRC. I swear the designers sat side by side. Or they sourced a design from the same intellectual property holder.

- The IH Travelall goes back to 1953.
- The IH Scout was 1961 - 1980
- The RRC was 1970 - 1996

From Talk:International Harvester Scout

".....International Scout's claim to fame is that it broke into a totally new market that no other vehicle had ever entered. The Jeep CJ was mainly used for work only, but the Scout could be used to plow snow and yet the wife could feel comfortable getting groceries with it, too. This new market even surprised International and it became its best selling vehicle. The sales caught the attention of other auto makers who all came out with vehicles to compete in the Scout market. Ford basically copied the Scout with the Bronco in 1966. Jeep introduced the Comando and the Cherokee. Chevy and GMC brought to market the Blazer and Jimmy. Eventually Dodge and Plymouth had the Ramcharger. The Scout started a whole new market of vehicles that America still thrives upon today......"

Missing from this perspective is that Land Rover also basically copied the Scout as a work and family vehicle. A vehicle for the farm and home. Everyone is familiar with the typical "Motor City" dealers that congregate in areas to offer/sell cars/trucks. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, ..... are typically all within a few miles of each other. Where did you find the IH Scout? Down at your local farm implement dealer where OTR trucks and farm supplies were sold. Many miles from your urban "motor city". Likely in a nearby rural town serving the family farms. Parts departments open till 2am.

That point (body wise) I will concede. Especially given the prototypes early on

 

[Boss Hog]

So I’ve Come Full Circle

According to the shop, Pippa is dead. I could entertain the “retain” option. We’ll see what his insurance company says. But I’m not optimistic.

In the meantime, I’m going back to what I know. I still have a Discovery with a well-done 4.6l that I need to figure out what I’m going to do with. In the meantime, I’ll see you guys in the Land Cruiser forum. You’ve been very encouraging.

 

[nuclearlemon]

woooohooooo!!!!