ALSV Dune Buggys

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
At one time I put considerable thought into how the make my buggy 4WD. It's possible, but........

Thom,

I always thought that Subaru 4wd / awd running gear would work in a rear engine buggy if you could flip the crown wheel or even the whole box like a Formula Vee and run it back the front so the old rear diff now goes to the front of the buggy with the old rear CVs then hooking up to the front struts instead. It's all there. What do you think??

The one in the pic is WRX engine with auto transmission but I'm sure it's not 4wd.

Ballistic_track_test2.jpg


BTW a friend of mine who's right into beetle s just came back from 3 years in Germany. He showed me a pic of a 4wd transporter that VW once made as a concept vehicle. I suppose that's what you'd call it. Apparently it was the only one. Probably between a '75 and a '79 model at a guess.

I wonder how the old Kommandeur Wagons did it? You'd think those parts would adapt to something like your buggy. Heh?
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
BTW a friend of mine who's right into beetle s just came back from 3 years in Germany. He showed me a pic of a 4wd transporter that VW once made as a concept vehicle. I suppose that's what you'd call it. Apparently it was the only one. Probably between a '75 and a '79 model at a guess.

Just thinking about that some more >> it was probably the forerunner of the Syncro although that was many years later, I know.
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
Vanagon Synchro parts would do the job as far as power train, though for some reason that I do not recall I was thinking to use a Datsun/Nissan IRS 510 or 280/300 Z rear diff (~same as Sube) in the front. Might have been the need for different R&P ratios to keep the different tire sizes. Most glass buggies don't have a lot of room for larger front tires. A tube chassis type buggy would make this a lot easier. Keeping the highly valued Link Pin front suspension design is where things got crazy. Would've needed a purpose built frame as the shortened Bug pan in my buggy would not have worked. At the time the Synchro was a brand new vehicle, so finding one of those transaxles at a college student price wasn't too likely.

Downside to the Vanagon transaxle is the taller than my 5.375:1 R&P ratio. For the way I used the buggy I'd have also needed to interrupt the input shaft at the bell housing to transaxle case joint and install some sort of custom low range gear set. At one time I had a Warn Over Drive for a Dana 18 transfer case and I was looking at how I might use it as an underdrive, but concluded that it would not have been low enough.

So the next iteration was to use two of the Dats diffs, one at each end, with a VW diesel Rabbit transaxle set sideways in the middle-rear of the car. I expected that the now center diff would need some sort of LSD. The diesel t/a was chosen for it's OD 4th and really tall OD 5th combined with it's 3.89:1 R&P. I figured (at the time) that few engines would like the highway engine speeds (ability to go at least an hour at highway speeds was a design criteria) so I figured to adapt a 13B rotary to the ribbit transaxle. Rotaries are notorious for their exhaust noise and being hard to quiet as their EGT's are very high. Most mufflers die early behind one. The easiest way to quiet a rotary is to turbocharge it. I hate when that happens....
A mid-engined turbo Rotary powered AWD 'glass buggy? It's a good thing I was poor then.

Sigh, some day I'll have to sit down, list each project idea and give them a sequential project number.......
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Man, You obviously put alot more thought into that than I did. I'm sure you've more cogs in your head than tyhe rest of us.

Keeping the highly valued Link Pin front suspension design is where things got crazy.

I'll see if I can find this pic. The old 4wd bay window Vanagon (must be our "Kombi???) still kept its original suspension type, I think.

Have you ever seen under a 4wd Kommanduerwagon? The 4wd "Beetle looking" WWII miltary vehicle. Still like you said it would involve so much fabrication for you it just wouldn't be worth it. I always take the "recycle" option if I can first.
 

Outback

Explorer
The "dune buggy" you have pictured may have once belonged to me. Mine was purchased from a firearms dealer who purchased it at a Military Auction. These particular buggies were made by Chenowth. Mine had a Porsche engine. It had a third seat centered behind the driver and passenger seat and elevated. The rear gunner had a .50 cal Ma Duce or Browning machinegun with a rear facing M-60. The rear gunner could also choose between two roof or cage mounted RT-4 rockets. These were for your thicker skinned enemy vehicles ect. The pasenger side had a m-60 mount in front of him. The driver just drove. They had two deep storage tubs on each side for storing gear. The vehicle was strickly rear wheel drive but could go just about anywhere a 4x4 could go. These vehicles were dubbed F.A.V.s Fast Attack Vehicle. Hope this helps.







Does anyone have any military experience with the ALSV dune buggys? I dont know much about them but from what I can tell they are 4x4s with a rear engine and IFS. Anyone know how this setup works? Anyone got any technical specs on these things? They look like a tool that would be a pretty capable expedition rig for getting somewhere fast. I have always wanted to build a dune buggy but I shyed away from them because all the ones I knew of were 2 wheel drive only.

lsv.jpg
 
Last edited:

Outback

Explorer
The new Chenowth design IS a 4x4 but looks more like a buggy/truck.







I think the one I posted the pic of is a UK issue buggy, I think this is one of ours http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/dpv_lsvbugg.jpg. I read a small article on our version, built by Chenowth Racing Products, and it said it was 4x4, but I dont know if that is accurate. I have been told by folks who have had buggys that 4x4 really didnt matter because the front end is so light. I wouldnt know Ive never dealt with one before.
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Thom. I’m sure this is the old 4wd vanagon. Sorry no photo of the rest of the van but I’ll put any other pics from in the museum that I think would apply here. Courtesy of my friend Brooke.

3310765209_249e62bd22.jpg


3311596356_94795a38bf.jpg


Of course my favourite 4wd Beetle ever. Check out the roller under the front.

3311596528_b4f9f3c80c.jpg


3311596736_96a0abdf00.jpg


3311596880_e0f7a6e0c5.jpg


3310766493_1546e8199d.jpg


3311597266_0be532c76d_o.jpg


3310766869_938dcf5b66.jpg


3311597632_938d4a3f71.jpg


3311597840_cb032dedda.jpg
 

jh504

Explorer
The "dune buggy" you have pictured may have once belonged to me. Mine was purchased from a firearms dealer who purchased it at a Military Auction. These particular buggies were made by Chenowth. Mine had a Porsche engine. It had a third seat centered behind the driver and passenger seat and elevated. The rear gunner had a .50 cal Ma Duce or Browning machinegun with a rear facing M-60. The rear gunner could also choose between two roof or cage mounted RT-4 rockets. These were for your thicker skinned enemy vehicles ect. The pasenger side had a m-60 mount in front of him. The driver just drove. They had two deep storage tubs on each side for storing gear. The vehicle was strickly rear wheel drive but could go just about anywhere a 4x4 could go. These vehicles were dubbed F.A.V.s Fast Attack Vehicle. Hope this helps.

Thats really cool that you owned one of those. I would love to get my hands on a retired FAV! Do you know if they still pop up in auctions? How much does one go for?
 
Thats really cool that you owned one of those. I would love to get my hands on a retired FAV! Do you know if they still pop up in auctions? How much does one go for?

In all honesty, you're paying for the history if you get an ex-mil one.

Get any two-seater chassis and build up one, or buy one already finished. A little fab for the side-cages, panels, the 3rd seat and you're done.

I'm in between on my Baja Bug, and seriously considering starting (re: getting the wife on board) a Rail project to clone a Chenowth FAV/DPV.
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
I'll second that. Find a rail type "dune buggy" with the desert bracing kit installed and you'll have 90% of an FAV for a whole lot less cash than anything collectable.
A sample, figure kitting it out will run another $3-$4k depending on your choices:
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/4954/CHASSIS-600/
chassis-600.JPG

You can build them street legal and get plates in some states.
 

jh504

Explorer
If you need some help with the build shoot me a PM, I am in the neighborhood :)

I have so many projects in the back of my mind right now. This is just another one that I wish I could get off the ground. If I come across a chassis I might get it started.
 

HIGHSPEEDSTEEL

New member
Just my .02 those vehicles are indeed F.A.V. fast attack vehicles built by CHENOWOTH and were and are still in use primarily by the U.S. Navy SEALS and U.S. Army Delta so if you have one or know where to get one they are truly a piece of military history. The pic with power lines in the background are navy seals in Iraq. I forget what unit and team. There are several FAVS on display at the Navy SEAL museum in Fort Pierce Florida.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/3089964812_f690ef3d2a.jpg
 

Forum statistics

Threads
186,654
Messages
2,888,499
Members
226,767
Latest member
Alexk
Top