Ammo can idea thread

[jscherb]

I was in a Rockler Woodworking and Hardware store yesterday and spotted a set of heavy-duty shelf brackets. They're 8x12, made from 1/8" steel plate, and nicely powder coated.

I couldn't resist buying a set to try mounting and ammo can to the tailgate hinges. They're a perfect size, all it will take is drilling an extra hole or two in them to match up to the holes in the hinges.

They would work for mounting an ammo can, they're shown here with the 30 cal ammo can tray I made last week:

Or a jerry can. The jerry can tray in the photos below is available, so there's no fabrication involved, just drilling a few holes in the bracket and the tray.

When I get a few free minutes I'll do some test installs on my LJ and the JK to see how these brackets work out.

 

[jscherb]

I'm working on a prototype of the spare-mounted ammo can/trail gear carrier that I showed some drawings of the other day. I've made up two can trays for it and I've sized them to be "universal" ammo can trays - they'll fit the most popular sizes of ammo cans:

Another reason I'm calling them "universal" is the mounting holes - I've designed them so they can mount anywhere that's designed to mount a standard "blitz"/military jerry can tray, and they'll also bolt to most places designed for Rotopax mounts. Many swing-sway tire carriers have provisions for mounting either blitz trays or Rotopax, so these would bolt right up to those. They can also bolt 90-degrees to a surface, such as if they were to be mounted to the hinges of a tailgate and sticking out.

Next I'll be fabricating the main structure that mounts these to the spare, and the grid for mounting other accessories.

 

[jscherb]

One place the tray could be useful... it's just sitting on a pile of blocks next to the trailer for this photo, but it would bolt to the side of the tub easily.

 

[jgaz]

I love the designed in, adaptability, of your concept pieces. That is something that I believe can't be taught, you either understand the possible market and uses of your design or you don't. This I believe, is the difference between a part that is designed by a "Jeep guy" and one that is designed by a so called "professional" that may be designing bathroom fixtures next week.

What gauge material are you using for the mounts? I assume you are using a bending brake to fabricate these. What break are you using, and how thick a material will it handle?

 

[jscherb]

I love the designed in, adaptability, of your concept pieces. That is something that I believe can't be taught, you either understand the possible market and uses of your design or you don't. This I believe, is the difference between a part that is designed by a "Jeep guy" and one that is designed by a so called "professional" that may be designing bathroom fixtures next week.

What gauge material are you using for the mounts? I assume you are using a bending brake to fabricate these. What break are you using, and how thick a material will it handle?

Thank you. I try to design everything with as many options and configurations as possible, that's just how I think.

My home bending brake is home-made, and it can handle up to 16-gauge in reasonable lengths.

I'm doing this project with 14-gauge though, so I can't bend it at home. I'm very fortunate that there's a fab shop nearby and the guy who runs it is very friendly to me. So for this project I went down there the other day and picked up the metal I needed for the project (he sells me metal very reasonably), brought it home and cut out the tray patterns, then brought the ready-to-bend parts back to his shop and he let me use his brake to bend them to shape. Then I brought them back home and did the welding. The grid part, which I haven't shown yet, is also 14-gauge and pretty long, so I bent flanges on that using his press brake.

 

[tommudd]

Nice find on those HD shelf brackets
Come to find out I have independent dealer who sells their products 5 miles from the house. May just have to go get some since I was trying to fab something similar up last night.
As always love following your ideas and train of thought.
Good work!

 

[jscherb]

Got the "SaddlePack" prototype to the point where I could test fit it on the Jeep this morning. (If anyone has a better name I'm open to it). It isn't secured to the spare in these photos, it's just sitting there.

With two 50 cal cans. Haven't made up straps yet to secure the cans in the trays.

And with some stuff on the grid. A 30 cal ammo can in a tray, a 5-liter NATO can, and a shovel held on with Quickfist clamps.

So far the basic concept seems to work, next I'll have to work on the straps to secure it to the spare.

 

[Lucky j]

In the past, I got some isuues with my YJ rear door. I had to change the hinges, but more than that, my door broke in the middle. At the time, the heaviest laod on my door was a bike rack with an aluminiun bicycle on a regular spare tire.

Now I know you have modified your door to become barn style and that you have uprgraded the hinges as well. What I do not know, is if you have reinforced the door in anyway or if the TJ doors are stonger than of the YJs.

I became nervous in loading a back door on jeeps since then. So this is why I went with a swing out.

But still curious.

Thanks

 

[jscherb]

In the past, I got some isuues with my YJ rear door. I had to change the hinges, but more than that, my door broke in the middle. At the time, the heaviest laod on my door was a bike rack with an aluminiun bicycle on a regular spare tire.

Now I know you have modified your door to become barn style and that you have uprgraded the hinges as well. What I do not know, is if you have reinforced the door in anyway or if the TJ doors are stonger than of the YJs.

I became nervous in loading a back door on jeeps since then. So this is why I went with a swing out.

But still curious.

Thanks

The amount of weight you could safely carry in this rack of course depends on your spare carrier tailgate, etc. On a stock YJ it wouldn't be a lot. On a heavy-duty swing-out carrier it could be substantial.

As far as my Jeep goes, weight isn't a problem. About 4 years ago when I was finishing up building the hardtop, I designed and built heavy-duty tailgate hinges and a tailgate reinforcement. So even though I run a stock tailgate, all the weight is borne by the reinforcement and hinges. BTW the reinforcement became a commercial product, it's sold (not by me) under the name Exogate. Recently I did HD hinges, a tailgate reinforcement and an HD spare carrier for my JK; those are now on the market as well (different company from the one that does the Exogate though). Both of those permit a substantial amount of weight to be carried.

 

[jscherb]

One of the first ways I'll probably use the SaddlePack (or maybe I should call it the SaddleRack?) would be for two ammo cans plus sand tracks. The next off-road trip I'm hoping to do is to the Mojave and Death Valley deserts, so I'm thinking I'll be taking sand tracks along in case of trouble with loose sand. A photo-edit:

Another photo-edit, the grid would also be a good place for Rotopax containers...

 

[ober27]

Wow! This keeps getting better. How do you plan to make it adjustable for different tire widths?

 

[AFBronco235]

I do like the idea for the saddlerack, but I'm also concerned about weight loads. Not so much during normal driving on the road, but shock loads when the rear axle drops 6 inches coming off a rock or shelf on the trail. That can easily double or triple the load on the spare tire. Granted, the tire itself acts as a shock absorber and cushion, but the drop will still put a LOT of additional force on the door hinges.

The other potential problem I see here is if you need your spare, you'll need at least one other person to help remove the rack, if you don't want to empty it first anyways. Now, I realize that most of the time, you won't be alone while using it, so its only a potential problem, but it can be a concern.

 

[trust]

always think Jeff, always!! Maybe I missed it but where do you find the Alum grid material? That looks like its worth its weight in gold.

FWIW, there was an outfit years ago, maybe bestop when they were still a small quality outfit in Colorado but I wouldnt swear to that. They made a spare tire can mount that was about A 3" wide circumferential steel band that was hinged on the bottom and had a latch on the top so it squeezed around the tire. A standard steel 5 gal gas can mounted to each side of the tire. A very simple design, very simple product but seemed to work ok as far as I know. Thought about building one bud didnt have a spare mount to use that I felt good about. Something similar to that could be used to secure your saddlepack idea and be more durable than web straps. Just a thought...

carry on mad scientist!!

 

[jscherb]

Wow! This keeps getting better. How do you plan to make it adjustable for different tire widths?

The position of the ammo can trays is adjustable for different tire sizes. I made the range to suit from 29" tires (TJ stock) up to 37". In the photo below, each tray is 1" outboard of the narrowest position to fit the 32" tire. For a 37, each tray would bolt several bolt holes outboard from the position in this photo.

 

[jscherb]

I do like the idea for the saddlerack, but I'm also concerned about weight loads. Not so much during normal driving on the road, but shock loads when the rear axle drops 6 inches coming off a rock or shelf on the trail. That can easily double or triple the load on the spare tire. Granted, the tire itself acts as a shock absorber and cushion, but the drop will still put a LOT of additional force on the door hinges.

For serious trail use of this rack with heavier loads, the tailgate hinges and some reinforcement should be used, like the Exogate for the TJ, or this HD hinge set/tailgate reinforcement/HD spare carrier for the JK:

The JK hinges/tailgate reinforcement/HD spare carrier have also passed the 225-lb. gorilla test .

The other potential problem I see here is if you need your spare, you'll need at least one other person to help remove the rack, if you don't want to empty it first anyways. Now, I realize that most of the time, you won't be alone while using it, so its only a potential problem, but it can be a concern.

I agree that would be a problem if changing the spare were as common as getting gas, but in all my years of off-roading I've never had to change a tire on the trail (knock on wood?). I figure if and when that does happen, the extra time to take the stuff out of the rack and remove the rack will be a small price to pay for all the time the rack has been on there and served it's purpose. The rack itself is fairly light, it's easy for on person to handle. Just take the heavier stuff off the rack to remove it.