Another day of glorious, trouble-free off-road in a stock vehicle

SeaRubi

Explorer
A couple of Rubicons, snow, rocks, mud - yes it must be Evans Creek ORV in the winter :REOutIceFishing:

I've come to appreciate these adventures at the local ORV areas, not just as singular events but as a great opportunity to increase my aptitude in vehicle handling. The experience gained here in a local environment will one day be very useful for those longer trips outside of the US I continue to fantasize about.

Everytime I start whining about my stock Rubi I go back out wheeling in it and am reminded how capable it can be when more attention is paid to how it's driven. You don't need 35's and a long-arm suspension to make it over 95% of the trails in the Pacific North West - and certainly you don't need that equipment to get well off the beaten track, or over a several thousand mile voyage over primitive roads.

There is a strong case I think for leaving it bone stock, or as close to that as possible. Engineers at Daimler Chrysler have worked very hard to minimize warranty claims on their product line. Why go messing around with a good thing? No lift, swaybars attached, and ~18-19psi in the tires have worked well for me over most of WA state's terrain in the 14 months I've owned the Jeep. The one detriment that will be corrected is the much loathed "shovel". If it weren't for that low-hanging transfer case skidplate, the Rubi would be near perfect right out of the box.

My friend's 2003 is sanely fitted with a 3.5" teraflex kit, 33" MT/R's, and a nice winch and bumper combination. With the short wheelbase, there's next to nothing in this state that's not conquerable with that setup. It's something to strive for, to be sure. Even so, sometimes, all you need is a bit of faith in yourself, faith in the equipment you do have, and the fortitude to put it all together for a safe, memorable experience. It sure beats web wheeling and stressing over mods.

lunch_spot.jpg


As I stood in the trees at the snowed-in camp site, chewing on Nalley chili cooked right in the can and savoring a cool glass of wine, I couldn't help but wonder how many vehicles had been here over the weekend revving their engines and employing those massive tires so popular around here towards dubious objectives. Certainly not I. :chowtime:

lunch2.jpg


Were they missing the point? Why trade a few moments of peace for beef jerky, bad beer and near vertical assaults on the surrounding landscape ... leaving the beerboxes and bottles for me to clean up the next Wednesday?

The trails that are there have plenty of challenge in them ... for a stock or nearly stock rig. Take this memorable climb below, for instance. Tires spinning, smashing the shovel and rear control arms repeatedly on the rocks in the middle, going to the high-side the first two attempts and needing winched off backwards, not once but twice, before settling for the easy route to the left. All in a day's fun - maybe when I come back to drier times I'll be able to crawl it, but today the ability of the tires to claw over snowy, muddy terrain is much less than the tenacious grip the serpentine rock had on my drivers side lower control arm. At least I didn't have to be winched up.

hill_top.jpg


A couple more miles down the trail I figured out that our 2 jeep party was well away from finding 102 to the north, and discovered deep snow drifts, untouched trails, and plenty of frozen mud that would lead us to great views. Long, steep climbs on the sharp hills were taken with the lockers off, with enough speed to maintain momentum through wheel-deep snow but not so much as to risk sliding over the edge. The limited slip worked dutifully, and in the vast quietness of the forest we slid to a stop a few yards away to spot two enormous doe curiously gazing and perhaps wondering why these mechanical things were intruding into their space. I was envious of their quick getaway straight over the precipice, marveling that not only would I never attempt that in my jeep, but it would be unlikely that I'd try it on foot, either.

One more snowy climb and a 1/4 mile led us to the end of the road. It had been a good day of carefree exploring, and I'd not remembered to break out the camera nearly enough to do the day justice.

headed_back.jpg


To sum up - stop whining about those mods, and get yourself out into the woods. What doesn't kill you or your jeep will only make it stronger.

cheers
-isaac
 

Beowulf

Expedition Leader
My 2003 Rubicon has taken me down every trail I have ever wanted to go. Yes, it scraps a little more than my brother 03 with 33's but, I make it. I will be taking possession of a 2006 Unlimited Rubicon from AEV in about 13 days. It will be kitted rather nicely, but still only on 255/85R16s. I'm sure it will make the jeep seem even more invincible.

I completely agree that mods are not necessary. Just get out and enjoy. If it was not for the possibility of kids, I would have never traded my SWB for the LJ and would have probably left it stock.
 

jingram

Adventurer
Ooh, you ordered up a Rubi from AEV? What did you have them do to it? What was pricing like? Looking forward to seeing pictures!!
 

Scott Brady

Founder
Beowulf said:
I will be taking possession of a 2006 Unlimited Rubicon from AEV in about 13 days. It will be kitted rather nicely, but still only on 255/85R16s. I'm sure it will make the jeep seem even more invincible.

Dave and his crew are first class...
 

cshontz

Supporting Sponsor
Great post, Isaac!

:friday:

Whether I'm watching or driving, I've found that a stock or lightly modified vehicle has a greater tendency to surpass one's expectations, whereas a highly modified vehicle usually performs only as expected. Isn't doubt the most exciting obstacle to overcome on the trail? :D
 

Grim Reaper

Expedition Leader
I realized that when my Double locked on 35's 7ft tall 75 Jimmy was being handed its butt by a stock TJ on street tires I had a problem. the 6600lb was a major part. So I started over with a old 4Runner.

My truck has no lift. It is regeraed to 4.88 to get it back into factory power curve. It has a Electric locker and 33's. It will get a 2 inch body lift so I can raise the transfer case and gas tank to get some break over clearance and bumpers and sliders.

It has already done stuff people were surprised about.

Its 90% driver 10% truck.
 

SeaRubi

Explorer
Beowulf said:
My 2003 Rubicon has taken me down every trail I have ever wanted to go. Yes, it scraps a little more than my brother 03 with 33's but, I make it. I will be taking possession of a 2006 Unlimited Rubicon from AEV in about 13 days. It will be kitted rather nicely, but still only on 255/85R16s. I'm sure it will make the jeep seem even more invincible.

I completely agree that mods are not necessary. Just get out and enjoy. If it was not for the possibility of kids, I would have never traded my SWB for the LJ and would have probably left it stock.

You will love the LJ not only for the extra room - I have a 70lb dog and a 6yo daughter as trail partners :coffeedrink: - but also for the increased climbing stability compared to the TJ's. I rarely lift a tire on a technical climbs, even with the swabars on. lifted, disconnected TJ's seem to be skying a tire over the same obstacles. I love this aspect of the LJ - it just climbs like a goat, and is very, very stable looking compared to the SWB rigs.

255/85 is the size I'll most likely be going to once the MT/R's wear out. I'm hoping BFG releases their newer carcass in the next year to beef up the sidewalls of the M/T a little. Otherwise I'll be looking towards the Maxxis Bighorn.

I ran the 255's on my last vehicle, a 91 range rover classic. They were the old style BFG mudder and hooked up very well in slimey PNW conditions. Deep mud was awesome with a rear detroit and truetrack up front spinning both ends of the beast. The one area they were really deficient in is snow - they were not that great ... but compared to the BFG TracEdges I had on before those in 235/85, anything was going to be alot less effective.

As much as I enjoy the jeep stock, I can't deny that a range of subtle improvements are required for long-term abuse. lo-mod and protection are the themes for me. I've damaged the oil-pan pretty badly, and need to get it changed. Ditto for the rear driveshaft, and there's holes in the structural support webbing off the bottom of the transmission :yikes:

I'm going to have to consider a body lift (which I despise on aesthetic grounds; I hate the gap at the bumpers) and switch to some kind of high-clearance tube fender arrangement front and rear to run the 255's and no lift. I can increase the height of the jeep about 2" before I can't park in my garage anymore. We recently moved downtown so I have to keep an eye on the roof clearance. An AiRock would be choice for this reason but is outside of my means for the next couple of years.

A kilby gas tank skid (which requires the BL), tummy tuck, and engine skid will round out the bulk of improvements. Not sure on shocks yet - either OME for their described 0-3" lift, or I'll go back to the bilstein 7100's I had on the rangie. What I want to do is run coil-overs with a custom shock hoop front and rear but it's just not in the cards :p

so ... despite my self-assurances from the earlier write-up, you can plainly see that I have parts fever as bad as anyone. Being broke at the moment helps suppress it :)
 

SeaRubi

Explorer
cshontz said:
Great post, Isaac!

:friday:

Whether I'm watching or driving, I've found that a stock or lightly modified vehicle has a greater tendency to surpass one's expectations, whereas a highly modified vehicle usually performs only as expected. Isn't doubt the most exciting obstacle to overcome on the trail? :D


You know that's an excellent point. I'm trying to re-train my driving habits from just driving more conservatively to taking more calculated risks in approaching obstacles. With the gearing and the stretched wheelbase, it's proving to have more grunt in there than I have proper skills to drive it.
 

SeaRubi

Explorer
Grim Reaper said:
I realized that when my Double locked on 35's 7ft tall 75 Jimmy was being handed its butt by a stock TJ on street tires I had a problem. the 6600lb was a major part. So I started over with a old 4Runner.

My truck has no lift. It is regeraed to 4.88 to get it back into factory power curve. It has a Electric locker and 33's. It will get a 2 inch body lift so I can raise the transfer case and gas tank to get some break over clearance and bumpers and sliders.

It has already done stuff people were surprised about.

Its 90% driver 10% truck.

those old runners are tough. after having an open front diff, then a limited slip front diff on 33's, and now a selectable locker up front I have to say - if you plan on any kind of technical trail wheeling / rock crawling, save your pennies for an ARB up on that front axle and be done with it. It blows my mind how much extra control I have with the front locked up.

It's not so much the traction, it's the new range of choices! Need to get the passenger side tire on *that* rock, in *this* exact spot and regardless of what the drivers side is doing, I can count on grabbing traction exactly where its needed. I was always something of a momentum driver before and it's been a stiff learning curve in trusting the gears and the lockers. But it's worth it ...
 

0utback

Observer
SeaRubi said:
...
Everytime I start whining about my stock Rubi I go back out wheeling in it and am reminded how capable it can be when more attention is paid to how it's driven. You don't need 35's and a long-arm suspension to make it over 95% of the trails in the Pacific North West - and certainly you don't need that equipment to get well off the beaten track, or over a several thousand mile voyage over primitive roads.

There is a strong case I think for leaving it bone stock, or as close to that as possible. Engineers at Daimler Chrysler have worked very hard to minimize warranty claims on their product line. Why go messing around with a good thing? No lift, swaybars attached, and ~18-19psi in the tires have worked well for me over most of WA state's terrain in the 14 months I've owned the Jeep. The one detriment that will be corrected is the much loathed "shovel". If it weren't for that low-hanging transfer case skidplate, the Rubi would be near perfect right out of the box.

... Even so, sometimes, all you need is a bit of faith in yourself, faith in the equipment you do have, and the fortitude to put it all together for a safe, memorable experience. It sure beats web wheeling and stressing over mods.
...

To sum up - stop whining about those mods, and get yourself out into the woods. What doesn't kill you or your jeep will only make it stronger.

cheers
-isaac

I hear ya, and agree 100%. Mods are only a small part of the equation. And the bold text is the singlemost PITA that I can think of on my Rubi. Bad design, that was. All one can do is wonder... why?

I've been running my '05 stock since I got it new - 19 months now. Other than accessories required for communications, lighting or safety, the only mod it has gotten is a steering gear skid. I don't even have a winch yet, but that is coming this summer. Two hours of using a come-along to extract a buddy's YJ resolved that issue. Long story!

The Rubicon, heck any Jeep, will do a lot in stock form in the right hands with the right thinking and a certain amount of experience. No need to spend and mod and break and remod to go places. I enjoy the challenge of thinking my way through things and doing it stock. People are always amazed at what the Rubi does with little effort compared to their own Jeeps - often modded quite a bit more. Having said that, it is always the 'shovel' that gets me when I have been gotten. Gotta fix that one thing at least. Tummy tuck is in the plan, but that could be another year yet!

And, like you, I am thinking 33's, 2" suspension and 1" body lift to fit everything nicely. But that is it. I am old school.

Someone said here... "Isn't doubt the most exciting obstacle to overcome on the trail?" I have to agree. That is where the adreneline is.
 
Last edited:

Bongo Boy

Observer
Very nice post and a great thread. I can honestly say that the mods I have done to my Rubi have been largely to overcome doubt and little else, although appearance played about as large a part as well.

Point is, I really have little interest in spending hours crawling over rocks--and don't want to spend much time frightening and angering my spouse, either. The scenes you 'painted', of actually travelling through and enjoying the outdoors, are very much more to my liking than ideas on 'conquering' it.

I can also say I've spent considerably more time in the garage modifying the Rubi and at the computer planning and paying for those mods than I have wheeling it...and that's no exageration at all. While I've really enjoyed that time greatly, none of it was required to find and overcome 100s of great driving challenges here in Colorado.
 

mike h

Adventurer
It's not a jeep-specific tale but the moral is universal:

I was on my mtn bike on a trail in Moab about 12 years ago when a series of Ford Broncos came along, and stopped to look at a difficult section. It was a family, all in broncos, all representative of the age/era of the man driving it. The women and children all got out to watch.

The youngest son, a teenager, drove a fullsize Bronco, 80s era, lifted on 35s. He lead, and struggled - lots of smoke, wheel hop, stalling, rolling back and trying again. lots of cursing and hooting and hollering. A younger brother was spotting, or just waving animated hand signals - it was a circus show. Eventually he made it up, not pretty, but he made forward progress.

The next Bronco was an late 70s fullsize, decent tires, no huge lift. I believe it was his father. The teenager tried to spot but basically just nodded at everything. He also stalled it, struggled a little, but on the 3rd attempt made it not much cleaner than his son.

Last came the grandfather, in a bone stock, original first gen. Bronco. Simple, skinny tires. A winch was the only visible mod. Less tires, less lift - less of everything, except experience. He walked up the trail slow and constant, no wheelspin, no stalling, no spotters, no sweat. Picked and held a great line, just smiled and drove away.

Experience wins hands down.

I see all these baby-monster trucks and just think of the decade of South American Camel Trophy runs in stock Discos, slogging onward thru hell and highwater, just getting the job done.

I think a stock ruby is the most capable 4wd you can walk in and buy and hit the trail on, and it takes a lot of trail hours for a driver to outgrow that vehicles capabilities. Not that the aftermarket goodies aren't worthwhile and fun, but man alive - a stock ruby can get your adrenaline gland in overdrive and still provide a great, reliable, safe vehicle to get home in.

m.
 

Willman

Active member
Evans Creek ORV.....very nice place to have fun!

Evans.jpg


Man...Love the thread! You are totally right!

Sorry i missed ya! Moved from Belleuve about a month ago!....Evans was a great place to flex out!.....Just watchout for all the trees!!!

Good luck with your Jeep!

:26_7_2:
 

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