(Another) Forest Living Suburban Build Thread

[chilliwak]

Hey guys, got busy with work the last few weeks and didn't have time to check up here.

We went out two weekends ago, and I meant to take nice pretty pictures of the truck, out in nature, in interest of posting them here
Turned out the Saturday rain/ snow storm, came in early and it was, slow going in on Friday night. With the crappy weather and the state of the truck, didn't end up taking many pictures other than getting stuck. So here those are after the fish story....


Long story short, was supposed to get out of town at 5, didn’t end up leaving until 7. Got off road at 10, and the rain and snow started pouring slowing us down.
Took a few winches/ traction mats to get through some of the mud over the 15 off road miles (really sludge as it had been raining in Norcal for almost two weeks). In the last downhill (100 yards from the camping site), being careless, as we were basically there, I let the truck slide into a ditch (In the pictures, the right side where I was trying to keep the truck on is sloped into the mini “ravine.” It was so slick the truck moved ten feet to the right over ten feet of forward travel. Being pretty much there, and thinking about my new 3+ more inches of ground clearance, I thought I could breakover the crest into the washout, We did, but my rear diff ended up digging in and got us stuck. Literally 6 inches of forward travel until being out of it.

We unpacked from there walked to the campsite and slept. Woke up to 4 inches of snow on the ground, let it melt and got it out and unstuck. Found out that O’Reilly had sold me a two right hand CV axles and the left was about to pop out of the cup. Irony is I had just replaced both sides a few weeks before as a maintenance item because the boots after 200k mile and 12 years were a little shoddy looking. Moral of the story is to check more than just the label on the box for left and right (I am assuming it was a return or mis-boxed)

As we dug out the diff we found three broken tow straps, and a few parts from other vehicles in the liquid mud. Don’t think we were the first to get stuck there that week. After digging the diff out, the rear right tire was submerged (literally) in sludge, and the right wheel was basically off the ground (Plus we only had 2wd now with the CV) and the truck was not teetering, but wasn't in comfortable position angle wise. There was no easy way to dig out that tire, so we ended up digging a 6 foot hole in the ground and throwing a large boulder with a tow strap around to it to winch to. Before the rock got pulled up by the winch the truck was on the cusp of being let loose. Of course, after we redug the hole to go again, someone came across the trail, and it took about 3 second of a bumper pull to get us out. (We weren’t sure if anybody would come by that day or the next because of the weather, so it was just another hit that we could have been having fun until someone drove by) Refilling the unused hole, was depressing. We came out undamaged other than the CV, a bent rear sway bar link(Rough Country's warranty is awesome and they sent me a new one, no questions asked) and a bunch of new scratches on the right rear fender.

In retrospect, there’s two ways to get down the hill starting about 150 meters up. In the summer the way we went down is nice, smooth and easy, the other way has some larger rocks to traverse. From now on, it’s noted for the winter to use the rocky side as it keeps the ground together. Stupid carelessness and the “almost there” blindness at night by me was the cause.

Anyway, instead of throwing in the spare CV we cut the axle down to a stub and drove the rest of the weekend in 2wd. The locker did wonders (Also nice to rely on the 14bolt G80 and not the crappy 10). Once the mud dried out a little in the beautiful Saturday weather, we didn’t run into any problems even in in 2wd.

Don’t know if we had “fun” that weekend, but I can say all the recovery equipment got its use… and my new $18 Big5 special rain/mud boots are my new favorite toy.

Here’s the stuck pictures…


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Although everything looks like uber carnage I still think that you will remember this trip as a good one. So few people have real life adventures that they can talk about when sitting around the fire with the boys. As you said you now know of a better way to go and have some more experience getting your rig out. Thanks for posting. Cheers, Chilli...

 

[Burb One]

Glad to see another GMT800 Suburban on here. I'm in the SF Bay Area as well and slowly building up my 03 Z71. Might pick your brain on advice on future mods for mine.

Sounds like you had a crazy weekend get away. I would have given up after the 2 times having to winch. Hahah!

Cool pics!

Sweet z71! I'm interested to hear about your power mods when you get them. I've been debating the tune, but wasn't sure if it's worth the $

If you ever wanna meet to check something out, or need someone to go 4x4ing with, hit me up. We are in the east bay. Always looking for someone to get out there with.

 

[justcuz]

The last time I got stuck in mud like that, I had to run the sprinkler under the truck for about a day to soften up all the mud. The mud stuck inside the wheels and threw them out of balance. It pounded all the lube out of the ball joints.
Mud gets everywhere!
Looks like a memorable trip though.

 

[Wilbah]

Serious stuck for sure! Nice to hear about your experiences with the front end. You hear so much from folks about how "awful" the IFS system is you would think they break daily. I have 240k on my '04 Yukon (not the XL) and while I don't wheel it hard I have never had an issue with any of it. Replaced one wheel bearing and that's it. Nice mods on your truck. Mine is all stock so booooring. Ha.

 

[Burb One]

The last time I got stuck in mud like that, I had to run the sprinkler under the truck for about a day to soften up all the mud. The mud stuck inside the wheels and threw them out of balance. It pounded all the lube out of the ball joints.
Mud gets everywhere!
Looks like a memorable trip though.

On the truck you can tell the trips by the layers of mud because you never get it all, almost like ice core samples lol. This trip we spent over $30 at the coin wash, that under carriage gun got its use lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Burb One]

Serious stuck for sure! Nice to hear about your experiences with the front end. You hear so much from folks about how "awful" the IFS system is you would think they break daily. I have 240k on my '04 Yukon (not the XL) and while I don't wheel it hard I have never had an issue with any of it. Replaced one wheel bearing and that's it. Nice mods on your truck. Mine is all stock so booooring. Ha.

Agreed, I mean it's not a rock crawler and will break if you treat it like that, but it's not so bad if you're smart about it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[peasy]

Very cool truck! I am looking in to some light mods with a Tahoe/Yukon. I need dual batteries for the wife's cpap when we camp so I'll likely end up with 2 yellow tops or a red/blue like you've got, do you have any more info on your battery setup or any writeups you may have used? Are you using a marine switch inside for the house batteries?

 

[Martinjmpr]

Martin-

You don't need a 6 inch to run the 33's. A leveling kit will fit the 33", however it adds some crank on the bars. Even with the crank, as long as you're not dumb with the throttle, I don't see much unreliability. Other than this last weekend, with the improper CV axle, my original CV's lasted 220k miles with a lot of abuse and a leveling kit for most of it. I do not recommend cranking "all the way" but a little-mid doesn't hurt. My only IFS problem was my front wheel bearing completely failed a few thousand miles ago, but again, that was more my fault, as they had 200k+ miles on them and I didn't replace them when I installed the 6" lift because I didn't want to go to the store. With the 6" you can fit 35's easily, but I think that may be pushing the front CV's past their limit. My thought, is with the 33's technically, the 6" will act the same as the leveling kit, just with some more needed ground clearance (yes it does drop the diff). The rough country kit, actually doesn't drop the t-bars, which is nice. I did add their optional "kicker braces" for more stability and strength, but these even don't hang down as far as other kits torsion bar drops. Plus I figure they are a good slider/ protection at the bottom. (You can see both the t-bars and the kicker braces in the pictures, the kicker braces are the lower ones) Saying this, I would save up the money and go with the 6 inch and skip the leveling kit step. Once you get the leveling kit and 33's, you will want more, and it would save money to go to the direct route.

Also, with the weak points, the 4l60e is a "longterm" weakpoint. You will know a few k miles before it strands you (or at least when i had my early problems, that's what happened, and what I have heard to happen to others.) I would address the 10 bolt before the 4l60e, and only replace/ upgrade the 4l60e when it actually goes out. The 10 bolt, I would do asap. You are right, I have not had any problems or seen any week points except for the transmission and the rear end. That and the fuel pumps tend to go out sooner than later. This truck has been bulletproof.

My 4l60e has corvette servos, and an uprated bell(or sun?) gear according to my transmission guy. All he does is build 4l60e's and 4l80e's for corporate accounts, and he only rebuilds them with those pieces and not OEM. If I had to do it over again (and wasn't in college at the time $) I would have spent the $2-3k(minus what you get for the 4l60e) and gone straight to a 4l80e. I will do that when the 4l60e goes out. I would 100% recommend to go this way, especially if trailering (as I do). In my transmission guy's opinion the 4l60e, is just a time bomb in any spec in the GMT800's.

Actually one of the pictures shows the top solar setup pretty well. If you have any questions, let me know! (Also Edit- You're doing a trailer!? The suburban isn't enough space? LOL)

Thanks for all the kind words! I love looking at all your trucks too! :smiley_drive:

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Thanks for the reply (BTW looks like your browser has the same issue mine does, i.e. it doesn't put line breaks in messages. Annoying. That's why I have to put . in for my line breaks.
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Anyway, what is the rear-end weakness? I hadn't heard that about the 1500 'Burbs. Mine has the G80 limited slip/locker (whatever you want to call it, GM calls it Positraction) so I'm reluctant to replace it with anything less. My 'Burb has under 140k and I'm hoping to get at least 50 - 60k out of it over 3 years or so.
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I'm probably not the only one who would like to see pics of your truck NOT stuck in the mud. Would like to see what it looks like with that 6" lift and 33's. I think I'm still going to stick with a leveling kit, though, my truck's main purpose is to pull our 2,000lb T@B trailer all over the place and a higher lift just makes it more difficult for my wife to get in and out, gives us a higher wind profile, etc. 2" should be plenty I'm thinking.
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I'd also like to see the dual battery setup. Since I run a fridge I'd like having an extra battery (although we actually have a battery on the trailer as well so in a pinch that can suffice for an 'extra battery'.)
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I'm also curious about the 4l60E upgrade. I've read about people swapping a 4L80E into there but that moves the transfer case back several inches - doesn't that mean you need new driveshafts? I've also heard about a 4l65E swap.

 

[Burb One]

Very cool truck! I am looking in to some light mods with a Tahoe/Yukon. I need dual batteries for the wife's cpap when we camp so I'll likely end up with 2 yellow tops or a red/blue like you've got, do you have any more info on your battery setup or any writeups you may have used? Are you using a marine switch inside for the house batteries?

Peasy-

The dual battery was super easy to install. The suburban/avalanche/silverado's had a dual battery option from the factory. You can find the OEM tray on ebay or even you local dealer for pretty cheap(I think it was $35 from my local dealer). It mounts a 34/78 battery up behind the coolant tank on the passenger's side.

From there you've got a few options regarding connecting. I would assume for your uses, a solenoid to separate the batteries would work with the switch connected to the ignition wire (or another circuit that goes hot when the vehicle is running so the aux battery can charge off the alternator). I really like the solenoid I mentioned below. It is way, way over engineered and overkill for our uses, which is always a good thing. Also there is a source on ebay that has been selling them cheap for years (Like $40 cheap). They are normally $150-200. In addition, these solenoid, keep it simple stupid, rather than the complex electronic auto smart systems, that, in my opinion are overpriced, will go bad before that solenoid, and don;t really save the battery too much life.

For my setup- I have dual alternators, so my system simply has the starter cable and starter solenoid wired to the aux battery instead of the vehicle wiring harness along with the second alternator and sense wire.

I do have a solenoid, and 2 gauge cable going between the two batteries as well. The solenoid I used was:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Kisslin...367763?hash=item33a3f97913:g:hUMAAOxyXDhSpPo2
It's something like 500 amps continuous and 1200 or 1500 camps for 30 seconds. It is way overkill for the application. That solenoid is controlled by a switch in the cabin, so i can jump start myself(never happened as the aux battery is only connected to the starter), or more often, the fridge needs more power on multiple cloudy days and the solar can't keep up and I don't want to start the truck or when winching.

Let me know if you want more details. I also have a third battery bank for the interior and exterior lighting, as well as for charging all the radios under the middle seats. I would assume the above setup would be the easiest for your uses though... Below are some pictures I had on my phone...

This one kind of shows the aux battery and solenoid for the battery circuit mounted on the rear firewall. Ignore the crappy switches and hose routing for the hot water pump, I was mocking everything up (hence why I have the picture). Also this battery is now the Blue Optima.




This one has battery bank under the middle row seats without the wiring. (Seat still folds down) THe second crappy picture shows a smart isolater (i got a steal on it) and a fuse distribution blockmostly fuses for the solar distribution




The underseat battery bank and the house battery (attached to the stock wiring harness, fridge and winch) has a distribution fuse box attached in front of the stock fuse box.


And, I can monitor them all from the cabin



Hope this helps! These are just pictures I had around on my phone, so if you want more details or pictures let me know.

 

[Burb One]

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Thanks for the reply (BTW looks like your browser has the same issue mine does, i.e. it doesn't put line breaks in messages. Annoying. That's why I have to put . in for my line breaks.
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Anyway, what is the rear-end weakness? I hadn't heard that about the 1500 'Burbs. Mine has the G80 limited slip/locker (whatever you want to call it, GM calls it Positraction) so I'm reluctant to replace it with anything less. My 'Burb has under 140k and I'm hoping to get at least 50 - 60k out of it over 3 years or so.
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I'm probably not the only one who would like to see pics of your truck NOT stuck in the mud. Would like to see what it looks like with that 6" lift and 33's. I think I'm still going to stick with a leveling kit, though, my truck's main purpose is to pull our 2,000lb T@B trailer all over the place and a higher lift just makes it more difficult for my wife to get in and out, gives us a higher wind profile, etc. 2" should be plenty I'm thinking.
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I'd also like to see the dual battery setup. Since I run a fridge I'd like having an extra battery (although we actually have a battery on the trailer as well so in a pinch that can suffice for an 'extra battery'.)
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I'm also curious about the 4l60E upgrade. I've read about people swapping a 4L80E into there but that moves the transfer case back several inches - doesn't that mean you need new driveshafts? I've also heard about a 4l65E swap.

Odd, I do seen line breaks in my message on my end... :ylsmoke: lol Maybe because I wrote it on my phone, tapatalk has been acting weird lately and maybe added some funky stuff your browser doesnt; like...

It's not so much the 10 bolt that is weak, it is the G80 locker. It is a super weak point, and will break at some point if using it locked up. I am a believer that the internet makes things seem worse than they are but after doing some research, and talking around, this is a true weak point. If you're going to spend money on bulletproofing, I would start there... (Also in my post history, I believe we and a few others had a discussion about it on here)

For the lift, I was in the same boat. The suburban tows our 6000lb race trailer around, and so I went with the leveling kit. I was 100% adamant on that it was enough height. Long story short, I ended up wanting the 6 inch almost immediately off road. It really doesn't hurt much mpg with the 33's and 4.10 (Before the lift I had 3.73 gears). I haven't been tempted to move to 35's because of the towing and reduced reliability off road with the weight of those tires.

See the pictures above for the batteries, let me know if you want anymore details than I wrote, always willing to help!

I haven't looked into the 4l80E swap too much, other than i know it's possible, and doesn't cost "too" much more than a 4l60e. I think you are right, The transfer case needs to be moved, and that means new drive shafts, however the cost isn't too bad for the drive shafts (i believe you can use 2500 drive shafts, because the overall wheel base of the burbs are the same, and thus you are just moving the transfer case to where it is in the 2500's. Also, I think one of the mounts is different. In the end, for a somewhat higher cost, you get more value (wayyy longer life), and bulletproofness, of which you can put your own price on. I know the 4l65's are stronger, but not by much (at least from what I've read.) The 4l80E will last a lifetime, anything with a 6 in it, will be slowly wearing out. If it's a difference of 1000-1200 for the 4l60e, or 2000ish for the 4l80e (I think it's worth the extra 1k)

Also, supposed to go out in a week or so, I will get good pictures assuming we don;t get stuck in the mud again

 

[Jelorian]

Sweet z71! I'm interested to hear about your power mods when you get them. I've been debating the tune, but wasn't sure if it's worth the $

If you ever wanna meet to check something out, or need someone to go 4x4ing with, hit me up. We are in the east bay. Always looking for someone to get out there with.

I didn't see this till now. Sorry! I thought I had subscription alerts enabled.

In any case it would be cool to meet up. You have a lot of the mods going on that I'd like to eventually do.

I don't have a build thread yet, but I'll put something up soon.

Would definitely like to hit up some milder trails at some point.

 

[Burb One]

Hey everyone,

Been having some busy weeks at work, and haven't had time to look at the truck.
I am currently in the midst of replacing the powersteering pump, water pump, knock sensors, pitman, idler, toe links etc. Going to use the old one's to carry as spares.

One question for those with GMT800's... On the front diff, on the passenger side output, where the diff connects to the CV, how much play does your output shaft have? When I rebuilt the front diff to install the 4.10's I don't remember there being play but I may be mistaken... there is a little play up and down now... noticed it when fiddling around taking off the toe links.

Also found this:
http://www.gmfullsize.com/threads/99-07-4wd-front-coilover-conversion.274179/page-18

I am really intrigued, I would love to get rid of the torsion bars.

 

[OR2BAJA]

The torsion bars would be the absolute first thing to go if I had owned an IFS torsion bar rig.

 

[Burb One]

The torsion bars would be the absolute first thing to go if I had owned an IFS torsion bar rig.

It's been one of the things I haven't liked about this rig while accepting ifs. Having a coil over setup would be awesome. It looks like, including the optional upper reinforcement mount, it's $350 plus the cost of coilovers (~400-500) not bad at all...

 

[Martinjmpr]

It's been one of the things I haven't liked about this rig while accepting ifs. Having a coil over setup would be awesome. It looks like, including the optional upper reinforcement mount, it's $350 plus the cost of coilovers (~400-500) not bad at all...

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Replace the T-bars completely? How does that work? Link to the kit?