Anti gun legislation
- Thread starter Mr. Leary
- Start date
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Now this is an idea.
We had 'outdoor sports' in my school system that taught you everything from kayaking to fly tying to archery. Making a 'hunters safety' type program mandatory for ALL children would probably be a good place to start. Curriculum would be tough to write to make everyone happy...
Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
The questions that I did not answer have already been addressed earlier in the thread.
What I want is to keep my guns and make society safer. The methods are up for discussion.
A very interesting read, however not an unbiased review. The first thing I noticed was the claim that Countries with the strictest gun control laws have the highest homicide rates. I have not found trhe evidence in the document to support this other then the use of Scotland, which is clearly a statistical outlier. More later, it takes a while to go through 98 pages.
EDIT: I am noticing more and more as I read. Sorry, but this is not facts. The studies are clearly biased and ignore pertinent information. Not saying the conclusions are wrong nor can they be proved fallacious, but that the research is definitely tainted. I have seen "studies" like this by the gun abolitionists as well... also tainted.
Some of the stuff might be completely true, but there is enough tainted "research" in the first 10 pages to discredit the document as a reliable source of information.
I could definitely get on board with this.
Last edited:
thebrassnuckles
Explorer
Actually he wasn't a law abiding citizen, he was just a "lucky citizen" and never got caught/prosecuted.
^This is a great Idea!
This would, again, only limit law abiding citizens. Criminals will not get trained, and will still carry illegally.
limiting law abiding citizens, only makes them even further outnumbered by the criminals.
007
Explorer
My middle school did exactly that. We shot .22 lr in the basement of the Gym each year. Some parents protested and wouldn't let their lil' angels attend, but our gym teacher had those kids shoot archery instead. We all had to attend the gun safety classes.
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
I would prefer that energy go towards music and phys-ed courses many districts have dropped. Heck, I'd like for kids to spend more time in geography classes!
I also think I'd prefer young adults decide for themselves if they have an interest in guns then be given access to proper training resources. I think the issues of personal rights cuts both ways. I have the right to not participate in gun usage or ownership and I'd like my kids, if I had any, to have that same choice.
It's also odd to discuss mandated gun training for kiddos when states like Arizona don't require ANY training for even concealed carry.
007
Explorer
I would much rather my kid and the kids that hang out with my kid know about gun safety. Kids that know nothing are more likely to make a fatal mistake If/when they find a gun.
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
I don't think the schools should be mandating firearms training classes. Having it as an option, sure -- but not required. IMO, development of firearm handling skills is important -- and so is the development mental aspect of using a firearm in a defense situation (either self defense, or defense of other people), but that shouldn't be in public schools (which rarely teach to moral values).
Some responsibility for development of the mind, body, & soul, should fall on the parents, and as an extension, society at large. Firearms training is one such thing. If the parents want their kids to take part in an optional public school administered program -- great. But schools shouldn't have the power to force parents to put their kids in those classes if they don't want to.
Some responsibility for development of the mind, body, & soul, should fall on the parents, and as an extension, society at large. Firearms training is one such thing. If the parents want their kids to take part in an optional public school administered program -- great. But schools shouldn't have the power to force parents to put their kids in those classes if they don't want to.
Dave Bennett
Adventurist
True.
Public education should cover a wide range of "life survival" subjects but they dont becuase of budget cuts.
For example, in my home town in WA, swimming used to be part of the PE curriculum in grade school and was a skill taught to all children. Good thing too as we had water everywhere. In grade school we took field trips to real farms and even went fishing at a local lake, all funded. Drivers Ed was taught and funded in high school as an elective. And we had the option in high school of taking hunting safety classes (rifle and archery). We knew what the dangers were that surrounded us in our area because society in the 80's thought it was important enough to talk about in schools.
Now, kids graduate high school and dont know how to swim, how to balance a check book, how to get a job, or what services or resources are available to them to help make it as adults. They're not ready to survive in the real world which is what the school system (in conjunction with good parenting) is supposed to do. But they get to learn all about important stuff like how Suzie has two Mom's...
Sad.
Last edited:
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
I think what you're talking about falls under the same basic instruction as Stranger Danger, don't play with matches, stay out of the street, and other important uncomprimising lessons. If you see a gun - tell and adult. I believe the NRA has spent millions on that campaign, and rightly so. Sure, you could teach kids how to handle a gun, but if you can't teach a 13 year old how to responsibly drive a car, how can you teach them to responsibly handle a gun?
Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
I agree.
What is that saying? Location, Location, Location.
I have found that just moving a mere 350 miles away from my hometown that there is a SEVERE lacking in a lot of life skills.
To start with an on topic example, my wife and I were both taught to hunt and fish at a young age. In fact we both received our hunters safety certifications before 10 years old. But it wasnt just us, the majority of my male friends had theirs at nearly the same time. Most of us killed our first deer (and dressed it) by 7.
I also took home-economics in junior high and high school as an elective. I was actually cooking in my dorm room for college.
I also took an accounting class in high school and know how to balance a check book thank you.
Parents had a boat, they signed me up for swimming lessons by 4 years old. We still need to do that for my daughter.
I come here to Texas, and I find that there are tons of rude little kids that boss their parents around! My daughter is four and I see that every day when I pick her up from school. I tell her if she does that to me or her mom we'll tan her hide. Yes, I discipline my child with spankings when she deserves it. Not only that, but I find there is a lacking of the life skills mentioned here as well as an extreme outdoor deficiency. Its no wonder there are so many fruits and ferries running around.
I will say that I didn't know how to wash or iron my clothes when I went to college... but that was my momma's fault!
I have found that just moving a mere 350 miles away from my hometown that there is a SEVERE lacking in a lot of life skills.
To start with an on topic example, my wife and I were both taught to hunt and fish at a young age. In fact we both received our hunters safety certifications before 10 years old. But it wasnt just us, the majority of my male friends had theirs at nearly the same time. Most of us killed our first deer (and dressed it) by 7.
I also took home-economics in junior high and high school as an elective. I was actually cooking in my dorm room for college.
I also took an accounting class in high school and know how to balance a check book thank you.
Parents had a boat, they signed me up for swimming lessons by 4 years old. We still need to do that for my daughter.
I come here to Texas, and I find that there are tons of rude little kids that boss their parents around! My daughter is four and I see that every day when I pick her up from school. I tell her if she does that to me or her mom we'll tan her hide. Yes, I discipline my child with spankings when she deserves it. Not only that, but I find there is a lacking of the life skills mentioned here as well as an extreme outdoor deficiency. Its no wonder there are so many fruits and ferries running around.
I will say that I didn't know how to wash or iron my clothes when I went to college... but that was my momma's fault!
Last edited:
Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
Maybe its time to start a new thread about how our kids are generally unprepared to compete with the rest of the world! :sombrero:
Actually it seems that the pendulum is swinging more toward logical 2a principles.
I am curious how many people are killed in road rage incidents vs violent crimes involving firearms....
The bottom line is that you cannot keep guns out of criminals hands. It is impossible. The only way that you can dictate something to a populace is via a law. The only way that the populace will follow the law is if the consequences are more painful than following the law. Some people will invariably see that the benefits of breaking the law outweigh the risks of being caught--thus we have criminals. All of this to say what has been said before. Society(including the governement) is absolutely incapable of compelling anyone to follow the law. It is only capable of punishing those who break the law and get caught.
Picture this. All guns get banned and confiscated. 20 years later, when the borders are completely sealed to illegal arms shipments and house to house searches have turned up "most of the illegal weapns," There will be a remnant that still have guns---mostly mountain folks and inner city folks who can hide and move their weapons caches. In addition, you will have the folks who will make their own weapons. There are hundreds of thousands of machine shops that can make barrels and millions of individuals who can make basic recievers and parts. Rudimenatary firearms can and will be made from common building materiels. Ammo is easily made as well with the widespread availablility of lead and the ease of making black powder. casings would be little more difficult, but a mugging with a black powder revolver can be just as deadly as one with a semi auto.
The whole point of that is that a gun ban is highly unlikely--The key is to make the penalties so severe that people will not break the law...
For instance: If the fine for poaching in the state of Idaho was 15 dollars, I would poach all the time, because if I got caught EVERY time, it would still be the cheapest meat available. In reality, the game wardens in Idaho can and will confiscate the meat, your rifle, your ATV, your Vehicle, your camping gear, your optics and anything else that you used in support of poaching. (in addition to fines, legal fees and not being able to hunt anymore) This means that the vast majority of folks don't poach unless they are starving or have nothing to lose. Penalties on that scale are effective. Adjust our legal system so that it makes it down right stupid to commit a gun crime and gun crime will go down.
As far as children and the mentally disabled....If they are not able to care for themselves, then there is a reasonable expectation that their caregiver will provide for their defense. If they can care for themselves, (legally) they are entitled to their rights.
You said in "many cases" What about the rest of the cases? What about all of the folks that have no Mental illness and still commit gun crimes? Again, if a person has not demonstrated their incapacity to interact with society, we have no right to take their rights away. The safest society would be one that allows no freedom or human interaction.......[Insert quote by a certain founding father regarding the exchange of liberty for security]
Agree
Umm... I am career military (USMC) and I don't disagree at all. I see first hand how wasteful the government can be. We do get things accomplished, but RARELY in the most efficient way.
You make THIS society safer by removing the criminal element. By definition, they have given up the rights of a normal citizen. You do not make THIS society "safer" by making normal people do a psych eval.
I also agree with the Gun safety classes in school and am intrigued by the belt system...