Anti gun legislation

[Klierslc]

I don't think the schools should be mandating firearms training classes. Having it as an option, sure -- but not required. IMO, development of firearm handling skills is important -- and so is the development mental aspect of using a firearm in a defense situation (either self defense, or defense of other people), but that shouldn't be in public schools (which rarely teach to moral values).

Some responsibility for development of the mind, body, & soul, should fall on the parents, and as an extension, society at large. Firearms training is one such thing. If the parents want their kids to take part in an optional public school administered program -- great. But schools shouldn't have the power to force parents to put their kids in those classes if they don't want to.

You make valid points except that the government is already dictating what is and is not taught in the public schools...

I think what you're talking about falls under the same basic instruction as Stranger Danger, don't play with matches, stay out of the street, and other important uncomprimising lessons. If you see a gun - tell and adult. I believe the NRA has spent millions on that campaign, and rightly so. Sure, you could teach kids how to handle a gun, but if you can't teach a 13 year old how to responsibly drive a car, how can you teach them to responsibly handle a gun?

What? I was hunting by myself at 12. I would venture to say that almost every 13 year old can responsibly handle a gun with a little training. Same for a car. Sure go tell an adult while the 3 year old shoots himself. How about take the weapon and secure it and then tell an adult? People, (kids included) should not fear guns. They should respect them and be familiar with their appropriate uses and the consequences(legal and vital) that come with abuse.

 

[MP@HOME]

I said Gun Safety,as to prevent accidents,I did not mean a tactical firearms
class , there is a difference between learning to protect yourself, your
family or community and learning how a gun functions and how to avoid
accidents. Also some parents do not even want their kids to see a
picture of a gun ,they could opt out if they want.

 

[007]

My father was a trapper by profession and had two young boys to take care of also. It was nearly impossible for him to keep us away from guns because they were his tools and they followed him where ever he went, just like his boys.

He noticed that we were very curious about the guns and would try to touch them despite his verbal warnings, so one day he decided to hammer the point home and show us WHY we shouldn't touch guns.

The lesson was the explosion of a poor little cottontail rabbit canvased by white snow. After witnessing the power of a gun and realizing what it would do, my brother and I couldn't stay far enough away. At that point he was confident that even if we had encountered a loaded weapon in our crib we were going to be OK.

A milk jug in the basement of our gym was the prop used at our school to convey the same message.

If it makes sense for schools to teach kids not to play in the road, it makes sense to teach them not to play with guns. It really only takes a few minutes to demonstrate the reality of firearms vs. nintendo, and there isn't one single reason a school shouldn't do it. Unless you can guarantee that every child is getting proper gun safety lessons at home.

 

[greenmeanie]

That is not what I was suggesting, rather that the terrain in most of the country is so favorable to a defending force that a civilian population with firearms and training could make for a logistical nightmare scenario that would cause horrific casualties and devastate morale for the invading force. Arming the populace in this fashion would create a ready force that lacks only a coordinating body to empower. A good idea. My apologies for not making my assertion more clear the first time.

This link will save me from carpal tunnel syndrome as I will again point out that the Swiss situation in WWII was far more complex than a simple military action. The dissertation is based on a report written soon after WWII. It is quite revealing of the fine balance the Swiss had to strike and the importance of economics in war. The section dealing with the military aspect is perhaps closest to your heart although I'm sure you'll find the section dealing with the trategic importance of the rail network of interest too.

 

[007]

This link will save me from carpal tunnel syndrome as I will again point out that the Swiss situation in WWII was far more complex than a simple military action. The dissertation is based on a report written soon after WWII. It is quite revealing of the fine balance the Swiss had to strike and the importance of economics in war. The section dealing with the military aspect is perhaps closest to your heart although I'm sure you'll find the section dealing with the trategic importance of the rail network of interest too.

Your point is moot.

Any invading army will be extremely troubled if 20% or more of the population is trained and armed to defend its country using guerrilla warfare.

Hitler would not have been able to achieve a fraction of what he had, if every country surrounding it (including his), had been prepared like the Swiss.

Was armed citizenship the only reason the Swiss weren't invaded? - No

Would they have been invaded without those 430,000 civilian troops - Yes

 

[Wyowanderer]

It's apparent there may be some other reasons for your position on this issue. You present them in a not-so-subtle way. But, I don't want to bring politics into this. I have my problems with the way our government handles certain issues, but I don't share your completely dismissive attitude.

I don't want to bring politics into this discussion, so I don't. I find your use of the term "completely dismissive" telling as well.

My Mom worked as a lobbyist for the AARP in DC for 26 years and more recently in the state of Idaho. I doubt I could get her to chime in here, but I think you'd be shocked at what she'd have to say about the myriad ways money and favor can make its way to an intended target. I think you'd be more shocked to know who's got got the most to give and who takes the most.
Suffice it to say....it happens....a lot.

In other words, you can't, except by using heresay. The statement you made was about the NRA (Which I disdain as well, although for very different reasons), not the AARP.

Again, you're reaching, generalizing and being generally dismissive of anything associated with our government. We get the theme.
I'm sure there are more than a few from among those military and LE ranks on this board that would disagree with you.

There you go, dismissing my statements again, rather than really responding to them. Fact is, all the training and testing in the world CANNOT keep one from breaking the law, and when a well trained, tested person goes berserk, the Chicken Littles of the world will be calling for yet more training, testing, and then registration and confiscation. It's happened before in this country.
As a society we've got to decide whether we're willing to have freedom or not and accept the risks that go with it.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Fact is, all the training and testing in the world CANNOT keep one from breaking the law, and when a well trained, tested person goes berserk, the Chicken Littles of the world will be calling for yet more training, testing, and then registration and confiscation. It's happened before in this country.
As a society we've got to decide whether we're willing to have freedom or not and accept the risks that go with it.

Amen.

Reminds me of this:

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." - Adolf Hitler, 1935

It's all been done before...

 

[Wyowanderer]

It should be mandatory for public schools to teach about gun safety
up to 12th grade, after You are an adult You can choose to get extra
training or not.

Well, I don't agree that it ought to be mandatory, but I'd like to see every graduate who passed gun safety in secondary school get their CCW permit at graduation...
Except in the states like Vermont, where they're not required.:sombrero:

 

[Dave Bennett]

Some fun "gun control" info:

CONSIDER THIS...

In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.



That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century...

 

[Wyowanderer]

Amen.

Reminds me of this:



It's all been done before...

Exactly. If you'll read the German law of 1935 and the NFA of 1968, you'll find many similarities.

 

[Wyowanderer]

CONSIDER THIS...

In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.



That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century...

But it could NEVER happen here, 'cause we're Americans.....

 

[Mr. Leary]

CONSIDER THIS...

In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.



That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century...

This thread is not about disarming the populace, not once in this thread has there been an argument to suggest this, merely requiring simple measures to increase safety.

We are not debating the second amendment, gentlemen.

 

[Dave Bennett]

This thread is not about disarming the populace, not once in this thread has there been an argument to suggest this, merely requiring simple measures to increase safety.

We are not debating the second amendment, gentlemen.

Well, one could argue that these "simple measures to increase safety" i.e. "anti-gun legislation" is just more death by a thousand cuts...

Sorry for the ExPo thread drift Mike :sombrero:

 

[Wyowanderer]

This thread is not about disarming the populace, not once in this thread has there been an argument to suggest this, merely requiring simple measures to increase safety.

We are not debating the second amendment, gentlemen.

That's the problem. Many here believe that training, testing and then registration and confiscation are a natural progression, because it's happened before. Australia and England, remember? And California?

We can agree that we're not discussing the 2A, but the threats caused to the 2A by the subject we are discussing ought to be discussed as well.
Wow, that's almost a tongue twister.:sombrero:

 

[007]

This thread is not about disarming the populace, not once in this thread has there been an argument to suggest this, merely requiring simple measures to increase safety.

We are not debating the second amendment, gentlemen.

If you believe in the concept of arming and training the populace to increase safety, then you would also believe that making it easier for people to obtain firearms and training would go along with that.

How about a tax break for those that carry a firearm to use against criminals?

And also a tax break for those attending firearms training?

If gun control looked something like that I wouldn't be worried about the second amendment.