I'm not even sure it's about saving money...it's more the challenge of seeing if I can create something different, yet equally good?
Anybody do their own 4X4 van conversion????
- Thread starter teehee
- Start date
Bikersmurf
Expedition Leader
I'd just buy Ujoints kit and eliminate the guesswork... But that's because I don't have any time (Or for that matter money) to spare. Chris has got it all figured out to make these monsters handle and ride well.
That said, fabrication seems to be in your wheel house, and it's not rocket science. There are many threads on 4x4 van conversions on the web, and many who are happy to help provide advise.
I can also understand the joy from doing it yourself. Just for me, with a full time job, 4 kids, a buisness, house Renos, 2 old trucks, and health issues, I have to be realistic. My conversion days are over for a long time. The P/S conversion in my Fj40 is more than enough for me at this time. The camper conversion of the Ambo is also pushing what I've got time to accomplish.
That said, fabrication seems to be in your wheel house, and it's not rocket science. There are many threads on 4x4 van conversions on the web, and many who are happy to help provide advise.
I can also understand the joy from doing it yourself. Just for me, with a full time job, 4 kids, a buisness, house Renos, 2 old trucks, and health issues, I have to be realistic. My conversion days are over for a long time. The P/S conversion in my Fj40 is more than enough for me at this time. The camper conversion of the Ambo is also pushing what I've got time to accomplish.
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To say that Chris has it all figured out is a serious understatement!! I've been looking at and reading about peoples van builds, here and on other sites and even people with unbelievable fabrication skills still install Ujoint conversion parts.
This is an example of my last comment.....http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1357508-1999-7-3-van-build-thread.html
Hey man, there's no shame in using somebody's pre-built kit to install an axle. I tried to buy as many pre-built pieces as I could, so that I wasn't spending WEEKS fabbing stuff. If there would've been a reasonable kit for these old chevy vans, I would've bought one, but a $2500 kit wasn't in the budget. I'll be building crossmembers (front bumper/engine/trans) all this coming week as a result of that, so it would've saved me a ton of time. I did end up with a shackle flip and shackles (front and rear) from DIY4x.com, and new 52" leaf springs. The money I saved on NOT buying the kit, allowed me to spend money on the trans (built 700r4) and goodies for my Dana 60 (locker/gears/hubs).
ujoint
Supporting Sponsor
I've always priced my parts to make sense for everyone. The guy with no knowledge to the guys that are more than capable of making parts themselves. The guys who have the skills know that the $595 kit is less then they'd spend fabbing it all from scratch as long as we're talking about equal quality. Once the hangers are fabbed parts are parts. Springs, shocks, steering, brake lines, etc are what they are. No matter where you start those parts have to be bought.
I've dealt with many many guys over the years with the "I can build it cheaper" attitude and I have to say that 99.9% of the time the work is sub par. This goes back to my days at ORU with solid axle swaps, shackle reversals, everything. It happens here in the van world too, no big deal, it comes with the territory. I've had several guys over the years do their own swap and then get rid of the van. Guess what they did for the next one? Used our kit. I've also had other guys that didn't know about us or asked for help halfway thru a build, those guys do round 2 with our kit too. Finally, there re the guys who got convinced by the local offroad shop that they could do it better & cheaper, those turn into problems in most cases too. Eventually we wind up involved to help in some way.
Whatever route you take is fine with me. But for the record there have been 40 emails between us so far!
I've dealt with many many guys over the years with the "I can build it cheaper" attitude and I have to say that 99.9% of the time the work is sub par. This goes back to my days at ORU with solid axle swaps, shackle reversals, everything. It happens here in the van world too, no big deal, it comes with the territory. I've had several guys over the years do their own swap and then get rid of the van. Guess what they did for the next one? Used our kit. I've also had other guys that didn't know about us or asked for help halfway thru a build, those guys do round 2 with our kit too. Finally, there re the guys who got convinced by the local offroad shop that they could do it better & cheaper, those turn into problems in most cases too. Eventually we wind up involved to help in some way.
Whatever route you take is fine with me. But for the record there have been 40 emails between us so far!
Does being half right count for something? Ah well, it wouldn't be the first time I opened mouth and inserted everything below the hip.
On the parts issue though, and I know this works for the tranny because I did it this way, you can go to the junkyard. I went and bought an E4OD from a 4x4 application that was known to be toast, so I got it for $150. Tail shaft adapter and output shaft for cheap. It IS possible to end up with a bad output shaft (yeah) but not likely. Check your parts and make the right deal with the junker and it shouldn't be a problem.
Anyway, if you're looking to do this on the cheap there is a spot to save some easy money.
DIY to save money is almost never a calculation so easy as just the cost of the parts, or even the labor. Could I make the front spring hangers? Sure. I've got the bulk of the tools in my garage. What I don't have there I have at my business, from 1500 amp welders to a plasma table you could park a 4dr dually on. But that's only part of it.
Do I have the time, or interest in figuring out how to make them? How far forward should the front spring eye be? Should it offset the spring inboard or outboard, and how much? How much drop should there be in the front in relation to the rear spring mount? Do I want to spend the time to source the material, go buy the material, make the part, sand blast the part, take it to a powder coater and have it finished off right? Unless you live someplace like Arizona the rattle can isn't going to last.
For me fabricating is a question of cost, time, and planning. If I know I need a specialty part and it's available I will most likely buy it ahead of time (Chris's parts). Rarely will the cost work out for me to fab it. If I get into a project and then discover I need a specialty part it becomes is it available, how much is it, and how fast do I need/want it? If I need it now and I can fab it relatively simple I'll do it. If I don't need it now I'll buy it.
Someone posted diy4x4 and it's a fine example. Under suspension on page 4 are some nice parts to use. General use tabs (think axle tube shock mounts). Not much more than a triangle with a bolt hole it it. For a pair, $5. I challenge anyone to make those in their garage for $5. If Santa Claus dropped the material on your bench because he read your mind and knew you wanted it you couldn't do it for $5. Not if your time counts for anything at all.
"I can do that myself for cheap", and then spend weeks firing off questions to places like ujoint or baha. Yeah.
I bought Chris's parts because the research was done and I didn't have to do it myself. I could have made them myself sure. And after a handful of trial and error failures and tweaks probably gotten a set that worked just fine. I bought parts from him I could have sourced myself, but I'd have needed to do the research and make the calls. Off the shelf stuff, not fab, but I bought it all from him because again, the research was done, and it was one phone call vs a dozen. Shoot, he gave me (for free) parts to mod my crossmember and when it was said and done I bought a whole new cross member from him anyway because it was a better way to go. And faster ( cut, weld, grind, blast, transport, powder coat, transport, install).
If you don't care about your time and you don't care about figuring it all out on your own then by all means. But if you want somebody else to essentially give you the blue print to their parts so you can make your own, well... If you want to DIY the part then do it, all of it, otherwise buy it from someone that's figured it out for you.
Aimed at no one in particular btw.
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martell06
Observer
Chris, MAJOR props for giving customers so many options on how to build their van based on their budget and mechanical skills. I love fabricating and I'm always on a tight budget but I wouldn't think twice about buying your kit.
Only reason I wouldn't use U Joint is to go TTB like Agile. Any plans to offer the beam mounts and parts for DIY conversions once everything is up and running smooth BajaSportsmobile?
teehee, looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Are you set on leaf springs up front? Moog CC880S coils are cheap, you can re-use the stock coil buckets like Quigley does and you have experience building link systems.
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Chris has been incredible answering my many stupid questions! For someone so obviously busy, it's amazing that he finds the time to respond! Do you know if the 05+ Dana 60 coil spring perches line up with the buckets on the van? Still torn between leafs and coils
ujoint
Supporting Sponsor
Thanks very much.
Getting those buckets off without destroying them will be borderline impossible.
I hear ya...I wasn't sure they would need to be removed, but I suppose for tire clearance and axle position, it's necessary?