Anyone tried the 310ah cells

[Wyuna]

I noticed that there is another offering in the blue wrapped aluminium cells, with the latest being the 310ah cell, its Just a little bit taller than the 280ah cells.

I was looking at the 280ah cells for a 560ah 12 volt battery pack to replace my current 3 year old 240ah lithium battery, but the added 60ah capacity would be better as I tend to work with the 20% SOC As part of my energy management.

has anyone used these yet And found a reliable seller Chinese seller on either platforms

the 240ah lithium battery is going into another project, so I’m not looking at parallelling to increase capacity.

 

[kennedyma]

One item to note is that cells larger than 100ah can have troubles in mobile environments. Some of them are not designed to take all the shaking.

There is a study on the web, that I can’t seem to find right now, about using the smaller cells in marine use. It basically says the larger cells can shake themselves apart from the inside.

It looks like you have had success with larger cells, though so it’s just something to consider.

 

[OllieChristopher]

Are you sure you are describing these cells correctly? A single 12 volt 280 AH or 310 AH cell? I have never heard of Lithium cells that large in a 12V application. If you are describing 2.8 AH or 3.1 AH cells being tied together then that sounds more like it.

Or are you describing a battery that is 280 AH or 310 AH that has the smaller cells already installed. I'm confused????

 

[hour]

Are you sure you are describing these cells correctly? A single 12 volt 280 AH or 310 AH cell? I have never heard of Lithium cells that large in a 12V application. If you are describing 2.8 AH or 3.1 AH cells being tied together then that sounds more like it.

Or are you describing a battery that is 280 AH or 310 AH that has the smaller cells already installed. I'm confused????

There are 3.2v lifepo4 prismatic cells available in 280+ah that people have been doing builds with for the last year+. They're ~$115/ea shipped for the 272-280ah varieties if you can wait for them to arrive from China.

 

[john61ct]

LFP, not the higher voltage li-ion chemistries!

Are you sure you are describing these cells correctly? A single 12 volt 280 AH or 310 AH cell? I have never heard of Lithium cells that large in a 12V application. If you are describing 2.8 AH or 3.1 AH cells being tied together then that sounds more like it.

Or are you describing a battery that is 280 AH or 310 AH that has the smaller cells already installed. I'm confused????

come in well over 1000Ah too, but I agree for a high-vibration scenario probably better to stick with smaller ones, under 400Ah

 

[john61ct]

I hope you didn't murder an LFP pack in only 3 years!

Personally I would stick with Winston, CALB, GBS, Sinopoly, CATL

or DIY from A123 pouches, 20Ah? up to 60Ah?

 

[Wyuna]

Good point on the larger cells and vibration, having said that, we travelled quite a bit on corrugated 4X4 roads throughout our last trip around Australia and I haven’t seen any issues.

john, nothing wrong with my current LFP battery, apart from it’s too small for our needs now and After 3 years, I wouldn’t try and parallel another 240ah pack to increase capacity.

I’ve got another use for it, I agree with the cell companies above, I’ve noticed Calb now offer a aluminium higher density 163ah cell, it’s just that the larger cells offer a bigger bang for the $$$ and it’s hard to not consider them

 

[hour]

Lots of people using the 280ah+ cells in mobile installations. No issues with my 200ah blue wrapped cells after a year and a half. I think there was a thread about the fragility of larger cells in mobile installations less than a week ago on diysolarforum but I can't manage to find it. I know I've read for some aluminum cell mfgs that compression is only mandatory if using in a mobile environment ?‍♂️ recommended otherwise, and # of cycles claimed to be higher if clamped.

I'd use them well restrained in a mobile environment and maybe employ flexible bus bars. And install studs instead of the bolts the cells ship with.

 

[Wyuna]

I’d imagine that there would be some issues with some of the packs I’ve seen made by diy. I can’t get my head around just taped cells to support them, I’ve seen a few where the cells move when they are doing the final torque down, even thought they are strapped.

It’s a no brainer to compress them in a mobile environment, as movement will put stress on the 6mm thread studs on these larger aluminium cells.

I’d be welding up a aluminium box for a Tight compression fit, with 1mm rubber pads around the cells, I want some decent hold downs for were I plan on putting it.

i use a lot of 6mm Allan key threaded studs on jobs at my workshop, so I’d be using those, not a fan of the short internal thread length on the cells, I’d prefer at least 10mm.

i’ll try and track down those failures on wills forum tonight

 

[hour]

I’d imagine that there would be some issues with some of the packs I’ve seen made by diy. I can’t get my head around just taped cells to support them, I’ve seen a few where the cells move when they are doing the final torque down, even thought they are strapped.

It’s a no brainer to compress them in a mobile environment, as movement will put stress on the 6mm thread studs on these larger aluminium cells.

I’d be welding up a aluminium box for a Tight compression fit, with 1mm rubber pads around the cells, I want some decent hold downs for were I plan on putting it.

i use a lot of 6mm Allan key threaded studs on jobs at my workshop, so I’d be using those, not a fan of the short internal thread length on the cells, I’d prefer at least 10mm.

i’ll try and track down those failures on wills forum tonight

yeah the shallow threads got me yesterday, i received some cheapo 100ah cells for another fun project which came with crappy phillips head screws for terminals. Did some poor math and bought m6x25mm grub screws which are way too long. Maybe if I were using half inch thick bus bar... new ones on the way.

i haven’t seen many people taping. Most use threaded rod through plates on either end like I did. Silicone baking sheet liner things (cheap on Amazon) make great cell spacers and general cushioning.

Compared to an off the shelf lifepo4 prismatic battery using flimsy plastic baffles in a battery box you can bow with the force of a single finger, clamping is above and beyond IMO. I might even argue that taping is superior to what many of these drop in replacement companies are doing-and they offer warranties.

As long as my cells move as a single unit i’m okay with taping and will give it a whirl with this new 100ah pack that will have a miserable life on the tongue of my trailer. Scary you’ve seen videos of things shifting when torquing.. pretty sure that stuff should all be in inch-pounds

 

[john61ct]

I would not put compressible materials between cells nor the compression plates.

The whole point is to not allow the internal swelling forces any room to expand the case from its original dimensions.

Even a 1/4" swell reduces lifespan.

And compression plates are not optional even for stationary applications

saying otherwise is marketing BS.

If you want shock/vibration reduction, consider the compression plates part of the "battery", encase with "rubber" from the outside.

But with aluminium cased cells, be aware with many brands that is "live" electrically, hopefully negative return only but still. . .

 

[Wyuna]

John,

the dense 1mm rubber we use in the workshop will only move around to .6mm under full compression, we use it to line conductive surfaces in enclosed live HV areas

If someone is seeing 1/4" or 6mm swell in a cell then something is wrong... .4mm of movement is acceptable to me.

With a compressed battery pack, i don't see any real need for rubber on the outside, for just vibration protection, as i don't see it offering any benefit in my case, this is based on the cells being secured within the battery box, that is bolted to the floor of the camper.

With a 1mm rubber lined aluminium battery box, the cells are isolated from the battery box (unless you accidentally create an arc), and it does provide a bit of protection from the cells chaffing against the box, as well as a very limited amount of movement when it comes to vibrational movement.

 

[john61ct]

Yes for large cells, if truly dense and only 1mm thick, that should be fine.

Link to a source for that rubber please

 

[Wyuna]

Yes for large cells, if truly dense and only 1mm thick, that should be fine.

Link to a source for that rubber please

sorry for the late reply, we managed to get away for a 3 week road trip, it was good to get back out on the road again

http://agaus.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Silicone-Rubber-Red-and-White-60-Duro-TDS.pdf

it’s just a EPDM rubber product