Arctic Ocean Expedition: Winter 2007

[Scott Brady]

3,838 Miles.... on the way up :elkgrin: from Prescott to Tuk
1,551 Miles from Tuk to Anchorage

We are evaluating the cost of shipping from Anchorage to L.A. and flying back to Prescott.

 

[paulj]

When we drove the Dempster in 1988, we crossed paths with a group of 60 Italian cars (little 4wd Fiats, I believe). Apparently one group drove them north from Vancouver to Inuvik, and then flew home. Another drove them back south. Each had a roof top tent. We passed the bulk of the group at Eagle Plains.

At one campsite in that area, we also saw a bus with a bunch of roof top tents.

paulj

 

[paulj]

I suspect that most nights on a trip like this would be spent inside, at motels and road houses along the way. After all, it will be cold, and there won't be many places to pull of the plowed roads and camp.

But if you want to be prepared for some cold weather camping, consider taking along a Kifaru tipi and stove. They are a bit pricy ($1000+ for the set, depending on size), but hard to beat for a combination of lightweight and warmth.

http://www.kifaru.net/stovspex.htm

 

[Scott Brady]

Thanks for the post Paul.

We plan on camping in the roof tent most of the nights, using sub zero bags with liners.

The plan at this point is to construct isulation panels that will set up againts the inside of the tent to improve heat retention. In addition, I will wire in 12v electric blankets to preheat the tent and bags while driving (switch them on an hour or two before making camp.

The last option is a propane fire duct heater like this one from Adventure Trailers

I am hoping the combination of above will keep us relatively comfy :camping:

 

[paulj]

What are you thinking about in terms of tires? Sticking with AT/MT tires suitable for Arizona off-road, or switch to classic winter tires (soft rubber, heavily siped)?

I notice that the RAV4 in the recent Toronto to Yukon blog was using Nokians. A number of Element owners have switch to those, even using them year around.

I wonder if there are other AT tires, besides the BF T/A KOs that qualify for 'severe snow service' (snowflake on mountain symbol)? http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tires/wintertires/tirelist.htm

paulj

 

[Scott Brady]

It is funny you should mention that. Chris and I were just talking about that on Thursday. I am leaning heavily towards an all-terrain tread with heavy siping and towards a slightly smaller size.

I want to make sure that we have the fenderwell clearance for chains, as I intend to bring cable and linked (extreme service) chains.

So at this point I am deciding between the 265/75 and 235/85

 

[IggyB]

Propane won't flow too well at -40 °C. May wish to consider some other type of heater. Tent components may crack and break from the cold.

Years ago I drove from FtMacmurray to Fort Chipewyan on a winter road, good chunk of it over the frozen lake Athabaska.

Mud tires will be pretty useless. All terrain thread or winter tires with studs would be best. Forget about cable chains. You're either going slow enough to not need them or the conditions are tough enough to need V-bar chains.

When the temperature dropped that low, we never shut off our work or personal vehicles unless they could be plugged in. They just ran 24/7. Synthetic fluids should go into every nook and cranny. Gas consumption at low temperatures is extreme. You'd have to carry it with you. Any repairs to the vehicle at these temps are impossible.:ylsmoke:

Just have to remember that when you're out in that weather and country, you're really just part of the food chain.:chowtime:

But it will be interesting to read about it and see the pictures as I sit by the fireplace.:campfire:

 

[Scott Brady]

Gas consumption at low temperatures is extreme.

Would you mind sharing the specifics on this comment? What would I expect to see as a variance from 75 degrees to -40 degrees in fuel consumption.

 

[IggyB]

I don't have a technical explanation, although I can ask a process engineer at work.

I would expect your mileage to drop by 30 percent or more. And at those temperatures you are not shutting the vehicle off if you stop at the corner store for coffee or at Safeway for groceries.

The mileage in my Frontier gets much worse as temps drop to -20 °C

 

[Desertdude]

Having grown up on the east coast and moved at an early age to upstate NY an hour from the canadian boarder- I lived through many sub zero winters - block heaters - chains - pre heating the vehicles - frozen batteries - and working outside

This will be a great expedition !

I'll be watching this expedition carefully on my powerbook from my grass hut on Kauai

 

[lowenbrau]

Years ago I drove from FtMacmurray to Fort Chipewyan on a winter road, good chunk of it over the frozen lake Athabaska.

I don't think that road opened at all this winter with most days in Jan /Feb being above freezing. Its been a crazy year. Not a typical Alberta winter at all (if there is such a thing).

I'm thinking about putting a heater core and sandwich fan in my roof tent. It should help keep the frost off the bags in the Alberta winter and help dry things up for PNW camping. I run a webasto diesel fired coolant heater to keep the engine warm anyway, might as well take advantage it.

 

[Scott Brady]

I don't think that road opened at all this winter with most days in Jan /Feb being above freezing. Its been a crazy year. Not a typical Alberta winter at all (if there is such a thing).

I'm thinking about putting a heater core and sandwich fan in my roof tent. It should help keep the frost off the bags in the Alberta winter and help dry things up for PNW camping. I run a webasto diesel fired coolant heater to keep the engine warm anyway, might as well take advantage it.

Several of them did open, but quite late and at low load numbers. That is actually my greatest concern at this point. What time of the year to leave...

Thanks for the great comments!

 

[paulj]

Alaska highway (and aviation) weather cams:
http://www.dot.state.ak.us/iways/roadweather/index.shtml
http://akweathercams.faa.gov/index.php

 

[91xlt]

i have used the heaters like you have shown, they work good...i have done alot of winter camping, but......NONE @ -40!!!. i know cold weather does effect propane flow, hell even at resonable temps you get frost build up on propane bottles. what i do is i have a small trailer w/ roof tent and this does help by keeping you off the ground, also i set up a screen tent w/panel inserts around the trailer and run kerosene heaters works magic. and a couple of wool blankets it is awesome, but.....?@-40!!!
GOOD LUCK...SOUNDS AWESOME!!! i don't know how kero acts at these temps, maybe someone here can help you more w/that. but many people have seemed surprised at how well they work and never thought of, just a suggestion to possibly look into. i have used this set up to maybe a couple degrees below 0. LOL...jeff:suning:

 

[Doin_It]

MPG and Propane in cold Canadian weather question. So I went over to my neighbour and asked him for an answer. To above Q., Being he’s both a Mechanical and Petroleum Eng. who owns a manufacturing co. specializing in building oilfield heating equipment using waste heat from the truck exhaust, hydraulics, and glycols, he should know what he’s talking about. (Side bar - his latest creation is a heating unit using 2 burners on it, each equal to 800 house furnaces, burning 7-800 gallons of diesel per hour, he’s got 4 to build) Anyway, as to propane, it’s a liquid under pressure, expanding to 270 times when the pressure is released, as I understood it, it boils off when you release the pressure, this happens at -44F. Temp affects the pressure; (I know I lost some of it here) just as water boils at high temps so propane expands at temp, if you take it from 150F to 600F it will expand 25%. So by going down in temp. likewise you loose pressure, but the move is the same. We have lots of vehicles and job sites using propane for heat here all winter, no problem till really cold. Then he got into the whole 2.15 percent to 9.60 percent propane vapour to air mixture to cause ignition and I just zoned.

As for the MPG question, his claim is that today with all the air/coolant sensors we don’t see the MPG drop of days gone by. If the thermostat isn’t opening/closing right and marinating heat in the block, the computer is reading that and it will over fuel, hence higher MPG. Fuel doesn’t vaporize as well in the cold, so the computer may run a richer mixture till the engine is warm. Also we idle vehicles here more for the car heaters. Back in the day when I worked rigs, we’d leave the pick ups run all night (not our gas) so they’d be warm in the AM when we left camp. He also got into the whole issue of how many BTU's are in that specific gallon of gas etc. and that it doesn't matter what you do to that particular gallon at that stated BTU, a BTU will only provide so much energy, etc. etc.

That my story, that’s all I saw, and I'm sticking to it.