Arctic Ocean Expedition: Winter 2007
- Thread starter Scott Brady
- Start date
Scott Brady
Founder
Scott Brady
Founder
seth_js said:
No more trimming is expected, though I am going to do some work on the windshield washer area.
I am using a 1.25" SpiderTrax spacer to allow for full turning and chain clearance to the UCA. :smiley_drive:
DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
Scott and Chris -
You guys are going to have an unbelievable time. It was an extreme trip for me in July-August - we kayaked the route you're driving. Wow! I can see the beach we landed on (just left of center, where the small round-ish lake is, outside the breakwater). I can't recall which way they bring in the ice road. The people are wonderful - I'm sure you'll be a real attraction - break up the monotony of the long winter days. Be prepared for some fun AND adventure. Maybe you'll hear the story about the guy who shot the polar bear through his front window . . .
You guys are going to have an unbelievable time. It was an extreme trip for me in July-August - we kayaked the route you're driving. Wow! I can see the beach we landed on (just left of center, where the small round-ish lake is, outside the breakwater). I can't recall which way they bring in the ice road. The people are wonderful - I'm sure you'll be a real attraction - break up the monotony of the long winter days. Be prepared for some fun AND adventure. Maybe you'll hear the story about the guy who shot the polar bear through his front window . . .
Here is interesting link to a Canadian fellow who drove his VW Jetta TDI to Tuk at the end of the winter:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=107693&highlight=dempster
There are some great images on the ice road going up the Mackenzie - even has a picture of a Lynx. All in all he he had no real problems.
Scotty
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=107693&highlight=dempster
There are some great images on the ice road going up the Mackenzie - even has a picture of a Lynx. All in all he he had no real problems.
Scotty
Robthebrit
Explorer
You guys are going to have a lot of fun but be safe. I have done a fair bit of cold driving in far northern europe and here is what I have to add:
Change your brake fluid before you leave if you are not using DOT5 fluid, DOT3 and DOT4 fluids are gycol based and will start to freeze around -40C. If the fluid is old it will of absorbed water and it freezing point will be much higher. Even if you use DOT5 fluid which does not mix with water you can still have problems, with DOT5 you can get pockets of water in the system which easily freeze and can cause serious brake problems.
Also at around -40C is when coolant starts to freeze, Evan's waterless coolant is a little better but not by much. I would recommend leaving the engine running if you are no near a town or village, this has many advantages. Petrol unlike diesel does not really freeze at natural temperatures and will easily burn at -40C, what it will not do is vaporize/atomize as needed by an engine without help. A block heater makes starting easier by enabling the gas to atomize better, once the engine is going it keeps itself warm. The job of a block heater is not to keep the engine operational.
First of all a block heater only warms the coolant in the block, all the engine oil has returned to the sump where it will go very thick. Many big trucks (my mog included) have electric pre oilers which is basically an electric oil pump that is typically used to build oil pressure before cranking, you could use a similar system to keep oil in the block and therefore warm. These pumps take a lot of eletricity which is another thing you are not going to have.
The oil will warm up pretty quick once you start the engine but at first you will be running with high oil pressure and low flow rates due to the thick oil. This could cause pressure releif to open. The high oil pressure and low ambient temperatures can also force oil past gaskets because the metal shrinks in the cold and the gasket goes brittle.
Your batteries will be very weak and could quite easily freeze which would b the end of the battery. In addition the engine will take some serious cranking and you will probably have more load on the batteries than normal due to various heating elements. Don't rely on a small portable generator for electricity, they can be extremely difficult to start in such temperatures and they suck gas. In addition alot of these small engines have plastic parts and I have no idea what happens to them at -40C. Not having mains eletricity pretty much rules out a block heater.
All of the above problems can be solved by leaving the engine running and covering the radiator grille. Leaving the engine running allows you to put the transfer case in neutral and the main box in low gear which will keep the tranny turning and gear oil warm. Gear oil is notoriously for turning into grease when its cold (and not -40 cold).
When you first start driving you need to do a few miles at high RPMs and low gear. This will generatre a lot of heat, give the oil time to wake up and in particular give the diffs time to losen up. You certainly do not want to drive away at 50 mph.
If you do switch the engine off at -40C you run the risk of breaking the belts when you crank in the morning. The belts will go brittle if left at -40C and will easily break. Don't forget modern engines have rubber timing belts as well which is also prone to going brittle.
You have got to keep the engine warm while its running, otherwise the ECU will stay in start mode and cause the engine to run rich consuming lots of fuel.
Rob
Change your brake fluid before you leave if you are not using DOT5 fluid, DOT3 and DOT4 fluids are gycol based and will start to freeze around -40C. If the fluid is old it will of absorbed water and it freezing point will be much higher. Even if you use DOT5 fluid which does not mix with water you can still have problems, with DOT5 you can get pockets of water in the system which easily freeze and can cause serious brake problems.
Also at around -40C is when coolant starts to freeze, Evan's waterless coolant is a little better but not by much. I would recommend leaving the engine running if you are no near a town or village, this has many advantages. Petrol unlike diesel does not really freeze at natural temperatures and will easily burn at -40C, what it will not do is vaporize/atomize as needed by an engine without help. A block heater makes starting easier by enabling the gas to atomize better, once the engine is going it keeps itself warm. The job of a block heater is not to keep the engine operational.
First of all a block heater only warms the coolant in the block, all the engine oil has returned to the sump where it will go very thick. Many big trucks (my mog included) have electric pre oilers which is basically an electric oil pump that is typically used to build oil pressure before cranking, you could use a similar system to keep oil in the block and therefore warm. These pumps take a lot of eletricity which is another thing you are not going to have.
The oil will warm up pretty quick once you start the engine but at first you will be running with high oil pressure and low flow rates due to the thick oil. This could cause pressure releif to open. The high oil pressure and low ambient temperatures can also force oil past gaskets because the metal shrinks in the cold and the gasket goes brittle.
Your batteries will be very weak and could quite easily freeze which would b the end of the battery. In addition the engine will take some serious cranking and you will probably have more load on the batteries than normal due to various heating elements. Don't rely on a small portable generator for electricity, they can be extremely difficult to start in such temperatures and they suck gas. In addition alot of these small engines have plastic parts and I have no idea what happens to them at -40C. Not having mains eletricity pretty much rules out a block heater.
All of the above problems can be solved by leaving the engine running and covering the radiator grille. Leaving the engine running allows you to put the transfer case in neutral and the main box in low gear which will keep the tranny turning and gear oil warm. Gear oil is notoriously for turning into grease when its cold (and not -40 cold).
When you first start driving you need to do a few miles at high RPMs and low gear. This will generatre a lot of heat, give the oil time to wake up and in particular give the diffs time to losen up. You certainly do not want to drive away at 50 mph.
If you do switch the engine off at -40C you run the risk of breaking the belts when you crank in the morning. The belts will go brittle if left at -40C and will easily break. Don't forget modern engines have rubber timing belts as well which is also prone to going brittle.
You have got to keep the engine warm while its running, otherwise the ECU will stay in start mode and cause the engine to run rich consuming lots of fuel.
Rob
Lost Canadian
Expedition Leader
Another thing you may want to consider if it's just the two of you going alone is taking two spare tires. The Dempster is litered with sharp shale and winter makes avoiding bigger pieces impossible to see, the shale will cut through a tire like it was butter. And flat tires (especially in winter) can be a serious (and expensive) incident if your tires are damaged beyond repair. Also having a satellite phone would be highly recommended "just in case." Again because it's just the two of you you may want to consider taking a winch ground anchor (pull-pal type). You won't always have something to tie off too to winch yourself out if you go off the road.
Another thing often over looked is that you will always be chasing the light and long days of nothing but white, white, and more white in every direction can be draining. Getting yourself mentally prepared (I'm sure you will be) for that would also be on my list of things just to stay mindful of.
Oh and lastly don't forget to try some caribou and musk ox, and if you get the chance perhaps some beluga. Have fun and stay safe. This will be an awesome adventure for you two.
Another thing often over looked is that you will always be chasing the light and long days of nothing but white, white, and more white in every direction can be draining. Getting yourself mentally prepared (I'm sure you will be) for that would also be on my list of things just to stay mindful of.
Oh and lastly don't forget to try some caribou and musk ox, and if you get the chance perhaps some beluga. Have fun and stay safe. This will be an awesome adventure for you two.
Last edited:
outsidr
Adventurer
Rob, that was a great summary and I can attest to a similar scenario. While in Wilderness First Responder Training in Pitkin, CO in January my Defender 90 (soft Top) truck was parked for 4 days with nightly lows of -15 to -27 and on the 4th day I went to start it, (after scraping the 4 foot build up off the hood so I could see) and the battery was lethargic almost dead, there was no oil getting to the upper end and I could hear the rings and cylinders clacking, the idle was chaotic, very high then searching for over 2 minutes that felt like an hour. I considered shutting it down several times but did not think the battery would muster the strength to restart. I ran it in drive with the t case in neural and then in low range to spin up the other fluids when I bagan to move. The sounds of the rings starting to seal and seat combined with a screaming power steering pump, and the breakes breaking from the calipers was amazind and fortunately after a few mor eminuites things began to sound normal. The day temps were low 30's so I am sure that is the only reason belts, batt, and hoses survived. The top did suffer cracks and tears as I manipulated it to access the back and I thought that strange but this was my first experience with "Physics scale" cold.
I hope you get everything in order with your trip soon as with the global climate is trending against you; you may well not have the opportunity in the next few years. Although, you could always consider using matt tracks. http://www.mattracks.com/
Good Luck! I have driven as close to that region as you can in September and it is pretty baron. Well worthy of an adventure.
I hope you get everything in order with your trip soon as with the global climate is trending against you; you may well not have the opportunity in the next few years. Although, you could always consider using matt tracks. http://www.mattracks.com/
Good Luck! I have driven as close to that region as you can in September and it is pretty baron. Well worthy of an adventure.
Scott Brady
Founder
outsidr said:
Yes, and the main reason for doing it now.
Thank you so much for the feedback everyone!
Dave Bennett
Adventurist
Cool trip! Make sure you prepare for cold injuries when training/studying and when planning your medkit: frostbite, hypothermia, chilblains, snowblindness...
Good UV eye protection and sunblock are a must up there especially if dismounted but, hey, I'm preaching to the choir here, you know all this stuff... You guys will do fine!
Bon Chance!
Good UV eye protection and sunblock are a must up there especially if dismounted but, hey, I'm preaching to the choir here, you know all this stuff... You guys will do fine!
Bon Chance!
Lost Canadian
Expedition Leader
I see you are thinking about fog lights Scott. A yellow lens light would be a very good idea if you ask me. Blowing snow can be worse then thick fog, the stronger the light the less you will be able to see. Those HID's will be good when weather is calm, but may be blinding if you hit a storm. I understand your need for lots of light though. My family made it out to Whitehorse after Christmas a few years back, we were visiting family, the days were so short, I think we saw maybe 5 hours of daylight each day, the sun seemed so very far away, almost like we were in a period of perpetual dusk. It's kinda eerie. But cool.
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Scott, two things I forgot about in my post earlier on cold preparation but the fog light thing made me remember one of them. No, I've not yet driven that far North, but way too often criss-crossed the very North US Midwest taking the wife back to see her parents and/or winter trekking between different ski races for a decade:
- A rear (red is Euro, but I like amber) fog lamp for offcoming traffic behind you,
- Literally paint on (used if need be) 90wt to your frame and all suspension components. A good coating of heavier oil on these parts will help prevent water/ice buildup. It's an ugly job and worse to clean up, but has helped us a lot in our 80 in the past for our long deep midwestern winter trips.
whistler110
Observer
For more research, you may want to look at winterized military vehicles. I picked up some really good tips from how the winterized Land Rover Wolfs are set up and from talking to people who maintain them. After looking at different heating systems I’m a fan of the Webasto & Eberspacher coolant heaters. The winter Wolfs have coolant lines running through the vehicle for auxiliary heaters including one in the battery compartment. Another trick passed onto me was to seal the hood of the truck using door seal, this with a rad maff will keep the engine bay warm.
toyrunner95
Explorer
you saw that thing on the history channel about john dennison didnt you? i wanted to do the same thing.
