Balancing Payload capacity vs. Offroad

[ITTOG]

@windtraveler, could you unpack that a bit regarding the two being at odds with each other? I can think of a few like duallies, small street tires, sway bars, and diesel being nice for towing and hauling, but not so good offroad... where large tires, and a more compliant suspension are desirable.


I'd like to know what your perceived differences are if you don't mind.

Four things stand out to me: reliability, towing, power, and turning. I won't go into reliability. I think everyone can admit that Tundra gen was way more reliable than my 2018 F150. That is also my experience. Towing with the Tundra was so much more comfortable. Yes the F150 has plenty of power but towing a 4,000 pound boat is much more stable and comfortable in the Tundra. In fact, the Tundra was my son's car for a few years and I would almost always us it when it was available. The power of the 5.7L versus the 3.5L twin turbo are similar but very different in one are: initial acceleration. The Tundra is instantaneous and the Fi150 lags, a lot in my opinion. With the F150 I almost always have to back into parking spots. The Tundra could easily get into spaces forwards or backwards. Forwards isn't really an option on the F150.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Hey Yoss..glad your enjoying your KK.

Sell that truck and get a:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62568315/2025-lexus-lx700h-hybrid-overtrail-details/

 

[rruff]

The power of the 5.7L versus the 3.5L twin turbo are similar but very different in one are: initial acceleration. The Tundra is instantaneous and the Fi150 lags, a lot in my opinion.

I think I can give you some advice on that one... get a throttle controller or tune for the F150. Toyota changed the programming on the Tundra in 2013 to make the throttle response suck as well. It was extremely aggravating! Normally I drive pretty mildly, and the computer's response was to only give me maybe 20% of the engine if I pushed the throttle down 50%, with the other 80% of the engine happening in the last 50%. Very non-linear. If I really need to move I had to floor it, and of course it would give me 100% of the engine then, which meant the tires lit up, and the traction control came on, and the truck quit moving... maddening! A $90 throttle controller has mostly fixed it. A tune would cost more, but also give you more options and better performance.

The F150 turbo has more low end torque and is lighter, so should be faster off the line unless you have high gearing.

 

[p nut]

I think you can use forscan to put it in Sport mode by default.

 

[ITTOG]

I think I can give you some advice on that one... get a throttle controller or tune for the F150. Toyota changed the programming on the Tundra in 2013 to make the throttle response suck as well. It was extremely aggravating! Normally I drive pretty mildly, and the computer's response was to only give me maybe 20% of the engine if I pushed the throttle down 50%, with the other 80% of the engine happening in the last 50%. Very non-linear. If I really need to move I had to floor it, and of course it would give me 100% of the engine then, which meant the tires lit up, and the traction control came on, and the truck quit moving... maddening! A $90 throttle controller has mostly fixed it. A tune would cost more, but also give you more options and better performance.

The F150 turbo has more low end torque and is lighter, so should be faster off the line unless you have high gearing.

Yeah I have stayed away from tunes because almost everyone I know that has a tune on their 3.5 L have had engine issues. My concern with power is when I need to pass people or shoot a gap. The little delay can cause a huge problem. The Tundra would just shoot like a rocket and keep me safe in those situations. If I never had a high horsepower V8 then I probably wouldn't mind the delay.

I didn't know they did all that detuning to the Tundra. That sucks.

 

[rruff]

I didn't know they did all that detuning to the Tundra. That sucks.

It might be another bit of federally mandated stupidity (like traction control) that all vehicles are required to have.

I took a brief look at "ecoboost throttle lag", and it appears to be a common issue that a lot of people have "solved", but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. The throttle controller (HikeIt X5) made a big improvement on my truck and was cheap and very easy to install.

 

[ITTOG]

It might be another bit of federally mandated stupidity (like traction control) that all vehicles are required to have.

I took a brief look at "ecoboost throttle lag", and it appears to be a common issue that a lot of people have "solved", but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. The throttle controller (HikeIt X5) made a big improvement on my truck and was cheap and very easy to install.

Not sure what fix you found but when the dealership told me was to put larger turbos on it, like the ones that are on the mustang. That sounds awesome until you blow the engine. These engines don't have the greatest reputation for being strong. I may look into what you have?

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[dstefan]

I didn't know they did all that detuning to the Tundra. That sucks.

The “fixed” it in the later 2.5 gens with the tow haul button that gives you a very responsive throttle and acceleration … and the mpg to go with it!

 

[ITTOG]

The “fixed” it in the later 2.5 gens with the tow haul button that gives you a very responsive throttle and acceleration … and the mpg to go with it!

It is weird they did it with tow/haul and not sport mode.

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[dstefan]

It is weird they did it with tow/haul and not sport mode.

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There is a sport mode, which has been in existence for a while; it basically lets you upshift and down shift top gears manually (or manually shift everything) and lock out overdrive. It doesnt change the tranny mapping or throttle response which the tow/haul does do.

You can slap the shifter into sport and it automatically drops to 4th from 5th or 6th and definitely enables passing without using tow/haul. Sport and tow/haul together with the 5.7 V8 is almost scary. Sport is the only way to drive in the mountains IMO, sometimes with TH too. But I swear you can watch the gas needle drop!😩

With 4.88s and 34s it all works really well for me with the camper and load. The regearing made the biggest difference..

 

[TexasSixSeven]

Not sure what fix you found but when the dealership told me was to put larger turbos on it, like the ones that are on the mustang. That sounds awesome until you blow the engine. These engines don't have the greatest reputation for being strong. I may look into what you have?

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That’s definitely not the fix. Larger turbos would take longer to spool, which would cause even more lag. A tune would be the most significant improvement, but a throttle controller would be pretty effective as well. The throttle controller wouldn’t effect warranty, but would make it respond much faster.

 

[rruff]

The “fixed” it in the later 2.5 gens with the tow haul button that gives you a very responsive throttle and acceleration … and the mpg to go with it!

That isn't on the 2.0 gen?

Tow-haul does fix the throttle response issue and also holds gears longer and favors higher rpm. If there was a way to make it come on automatically when the truck is started, I wouldn't have needed the throttle controller. I use tow-haul on long highway trips anyway and get near 15mpg, so... if it's hurting mpgs at all, it isn't much.

Not sure what fix you found but when the dealership told me was to put larger turbos on it

Oh no, simpler stuff like a throttle reset, throttle controller, replacing the throttle body, tune, etc. The "tune" I'm speaking of could just be a software mod to get rid of the throttle lag, not something that would increase boost, timing, fuel ratio, or anything like that.

 

[dstefan]

That isn't on the 2.0 gen?

I’m not clear on exactly when it hit. I do know that there were apparently complaints on the earlier Tundras post 2007 that the throttle was too responsive/twitchy (which Tow/Haul is too sometimes) and they numbed it up and clearly went too far, so introduced the TH button to recreate the earlier responsiveness. I thought that was the 2.5 update which I think was 2014, but that’s just what I’ve read elsewhere. You or others may know the dates better.

The thing I wish they’d done further was improve the cruise control so it didn’t just hammer down in adaptive after slowing when it speeds up or in the regular cruise on mild hills. Regearing helped with that a bit, but I still end up using in more like a hand throttle a lot. Oh well, can’t have everything.

 

[Tex68w]

Is that only for F150’s or does the SD have it as well?

Yes, it's on the '23+ Super Duty Tremors. I played with it once and it was very similar in application/performance as the same feature that was in our 200 Series Land Cruiser. While it certainly has its place and it's a nifty feature to have in your bag of trail tricks/options, it will certainly tear up the trail mildly and should be used sparingly.

 

[windtraveler]

@windtraveler, could you unpack that a bit regarding the two being at odds with each other? I can think of a few like duallies, small street tires, sway bars, and diesel being nice for towing and hauling, but not so good offroad... where large tires, and a more compliant suspension are desirable.


I'd like to know what your perceived differences are if you don't mind.

Suspension and travel - "softer" and a lot of travel for offroad makes for "squishy" and unbalanced towing or hauling, where stiff suspension and level ride is more important for load control.
Gearing - unless you are rock crawling, you don't need the torque that is desired for hauling, particularly at higher speeds (like pulling long grades at highway speeds).