Balancing Payload capacity vs. Offroad

[Yossarian22]

Hey all,

I have a 2021 F150 Lariat and have been planning to use it to tow a Kimberly Karavan trailer. I love that the KK is lightweight as I am not an experienced tower and did not love it when I towed something closer to 7500 LBS last year. Loaded the KK will be about 5500 with a tongue weight of 550 pounds ish. I was going to plan on adding some small mods to make the f150 a bit more off-road rdy, but I did not want to get into dealing with lift kits etc. I have younger kids and with trucks like the raptor out their I figured my time is better spent buying an off-road version f150 and put that time to my kids.

Needless to say I went down the rabbit hole and learned that the raptor has a payload of about 800 LBS. With the trailer at 550, a wife, 2 kids and a 100 pound dog, I am likely sitting at 1100 before I add in Extra gas, inflatable kayak, extra cooler, and other goodies that with a rough estimate would be 300 lbs, maybe 400. If I did just mod my f150, I would want some better tires, which are heavier, proper skid plates and a winch (its not needed until it is.. and then it really is, trust me), all of which add more weight. My F150 seems to be only rated for 1300. I know you can go over, but if I am actually off-road and towing, that does not seem to be the best idea.

I looked around and even looking at other trucks (power wagon) it seems that trying to have some decent off-road capabilities built in just guts any payload capacity.

I am sure this has been discussed many times, but curious if I am either looking at this wrong or if their is an obvious solution I have not thought about.

Thanks

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

What is your definition of off road?

 

[Yossarian22]

What is your definition of off road?

California trails but also anywhere out west. I dont intend to run a tailer over the rubicon, but much more than a forest trail. Rocks for sure, fun approach angles and depending on season, mud. Absolutely, I want to be places where others are not.

I know thats not very specific but if you knew it, Bowman lake in CA is a perfect example of the hard but not excessive trails I would like to get to. I dont want to spend hours getting there rock crawling, but there are always sections that are tricky.

 

[tacollie]

RAM Rebel 2500 or a Ford Tremor Super duty weill get you the payload you want while maintaining some off-road capabilities. Or you can do what everybody else does and treat those payload numbers as arbitrary. I've been. I've done both. My two cents is either way it's good to slow down.

 

[Yossarian22]

RAM Rebel 2500 or a Ford Tremor Super duty will get you the payload you want while maintaining some off-road capabilities. Or you can do what everybody else does and treat those payload numbers as arbitrary. I've been. I've done both. My two cents is either way it's good to slow down.

I looked at those. The tremor has more built in than the rebel and both have more payload than I need. I was worried about going 3/4 ton as I thought it might make it harder on tight trails.

However, maybe its not that much different. The tremor is longer by 18 inches than my f150 but the rebel is only 6 inches longer. Both are slightly wider.. Otherwise I am not sure if the extra weight of the truck will ruin anything. do you think it will be worse overall on a trail than a 150, knowing no option will be as good as my old rubicon.

If only the power wagon was able to get to about 1700 or so, it would be king here.

 

[p nut]

You don’t need a 3/4 ton to pull a 5500lb trailer.

Nor would I spend $90k on a Raptor to run forest roads.

Your truck, as it is set up, can run 33” AT tires (275/70/18). Just do that, if you haven’t already, and just run it. It’ll tow the trailer just fine. It’ll be fine off road. It should have something like 1600-1800lb payload, which is plenty for you.

If you want something more plush, there are plenty of suspension kits from King to Icon that will smooth out the ride. And if your back end sags too much with the trailer, get some air bags.

 

[Yossarian22]

You don’t need a 3/4 ton to pull a 5500lb trailer.

Nor would I spend $90k on a Raptor to run forest roads.

Your truck, as it is set up, can run 33” AT tires (275/70/18). Just do that, if you haven’t already, and just run it. It’ll tow the trailer just fine. It’ll be fine off road. It should have something like 1600-1800lb payload, which is plenty for you.

If you want something more plush, there are plenty of suspension kits from King to Icon that will smooth out the ride. And if your back end sags too much with the trailer, get some air bags.

My truck has 1350 payload. Not sure what I did in the spec that made that happen. In terms of going places like Bowman lake in CA, I have done it in both my JK and my truck. I hit the bottom more than once on the truck and breezed through on the JK. The difference is the 2-3 inches ground clearance.

As I said, the towing is not at all the concern I had, it was more payload on the vehicle when off-road. Could I do it in the F150, sure, but it seems like a slightly different platform might just be better. On-road payload numbers affect drivability and yes you can slow down. I think off-road is a different story and the KK is much more capable than the truck.

I took a look at the PW and now realize that the payload may be less, but it already has good plates and a winch. I also saw that adding airbags could help a lot if I am at the edge.

Could I add in a little 200CC dirt bike, probably not, but the rebel and the tremor can.

 

[p nut]

My truck has 1350 payload. Not sure what I did in the spec that made that happen. In terms of going places like Bowman lake in CA, I have done it in both my JK and my truck. I hit the bottom more than once on the truck and breezed through on the JK. The difference is the 2-3 inches ground clearance.

As I said, the towing is not at all the concern I had, it was more payload on the vehicle when off-road. Could I do it in the F150, sure, but it seems like a slightly different platform might just be better. On-road payload numbers affect drivability and yes you can slow down. I think off-road is a different story and the KK is much more capable than the truck.

I took a look at the PW and now realize that the payload may be less, but it already has good plates and a winch. I also saw that adding airbags could help a lot if I am at the edge.

Could I add in a little 200CC dirt bike, probably not, but the rebel and the tremor can.

So why don’t you spend $5k on 2-3” lift rather than $30k+ (Net) on a new truck? Unless you just want a new truck. That’s a different story.

 

[Yossarian22]

So why don’t you spend $5k on 2-3” lift rather than $30k+ (Net) on a new truck? Unless you just want a new truck. That’s a different story.

Agree, that is the other option. I have been trying to avoid modding my trucks anymore. Just something I was trying to avoid. I dont feel the itch to buy a new truck but if it was something that I would do down the road, would prefer to do it earlier. but yeah, a lift would do a lot, I could replace the plastic skid plates.. The winch will be a pain but doable

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Hey all,

I have a 2021 F150 Lariat and have been planning to use it to tow a Kimberly Karavan trailer. I love that the KK is lightweight as I am not an experienced tower and did not love it when I towed something closer to 7500 LBS last year. Loaded the KK will be about 5500 with a tongue weight of 550 pounds ish. I was going to plan on adding some small mods to make the f150 a bit more off-road rdy, but I did not want to get into dealing with lift kits etc. I have younger kids and with trucks like the raptor out their I figured my time is better spent buying an off-road version f150 and put that time to my kids.

Needless to say I went down the rabbit hole and learned that the raptor has a payload of about 800 LBS. With the trailer at 550, a wife, 2 kids and a 100 pound dog, I am likely sitting at 1100 before I add in Extra gas, inflatable kayak, extra cooler, and other goodies that with a rough estimate would be 300 lbs, maybe 400. If I did just mod my f150, I would want some better tires, which are heavier, proper skid plates and a winch (its not needed until it is.. and then it really is, trust me), all of which add more weight. My F150 seems to be only rated for 1300. I know you can go over, but if I am actually off-road and towing, that does not seem to be the best idea.

I looked around and even looking at other trucks (power wagon) it seems that trying to have some decent off-road capabilities built in just guts any payload capacity.

I am sure this has been discussed many times, but curious if I am either looking at this wrong or if their is an obvious solution I have not thought about.

Thanks

"Off-road" factory versions (Z-71, FX4, zR2, Raptor, Trail Boss, Power Wagon) and modifications ALWAYS reduce payload and tow ratings. You said you are sure this has been discussed many times. It has. Checking the SEARCH button will bring you to page after page of discussions on this, and on tires, and on Jeep vs Toyota.

This is why some people go with the 250/2500 off road version, as tow and payload is better, even after loading the beast up .

My GMC k1500 payload is about 1700 lbs. Minus me, so 1500 or even 1300 lbs when I have a passenger. Tow is something like 9200 or 9600 lbs. Obviously payload affects tow #.

But if I had no passengers and no payload, I still would be apprehensive about towing just 50 or 60% of my trucks tow rating if I was towing on a regular basis.

You can have this, or you can have that. You can have a mix of both, but it is a zero sum game

(Edit: my GMC is. k1500. Typo had it at 2500)

 

[tacollie]

I looked at those. The tremor has more built in than the rebel and both have more payload than I need. I was worried about going 3/4 ton as I thought it might make it harder on tight trails.

However, maybe its not that much different. The tremor is longer by 18 inches than my f150 but the rebel is only 6 inches longer. Both are slightly wider.. Otherwise I am not sure if the extra weight of the truck will ruin anything. do you think it will be worse overall on a trail than a 150, knowing no option will be as good as my old rubicon.

If only the power wagon was able to get to about 1700 or so, it would be king here.

The super duty is a big truck. The gas rebel has the edge there and seems like a better option for you. The upside to the 3/4 ton is they have more wheel travel and it's really easy to put 37s on them.

 

[SnowedIn]

I looked at those. The tremor has more built in than the rebel and both have more payload than I need. I was worried about going 3/4 ton as I thought it might make it harder on tight trails.

However, maybe its not that much different. The tremor is longer by 18 inches than my f150 but the rebel is only 6 inches longer. Both are slightly wider.. Otherwise I am not sure if the extra weight of the truck will ruin anything. do you think it will be worse overall on a trail than a 150, knowing no option will be as good as my old rubicon.

If only the power wagon was able to get to about 1700 or so, it would be king here.

I would feel a lot better about using the far end of the tow rating and payload envelope in a 3/4-ton based Power Wagon than with any half-ton setup, even looking at the same payload figures. I use Sumosprings in mine, and it's my understanding that airbags and Timbrens are also popular for those who want better towing manners. Towing 5-7k with this setup is a breeze although you start having to be careful if you don't want to exceed payload with passengers and bed loads.

You don't need a 3/4 ton to tow that but - but - if you are not making it your primary daily driver it certainly can tow it more comfortably with few downsides other than $$$. And in some trims without having to mess around with turbos, etc.

The Rebel or Tremor will obviously tow much more, and tow better. I viewed it as a tradeoff for the front locker/swaybar disconnect/lower price tag without as much mods to do.

 

[p nut]

Agree, that is the other option. I have been trying to avoid modding my trucks anymore. Just something I was trying to avoid. I dont feel the itch to buy a new truck but if it was something that I would do down the road, would prefer to do it earlier. but yeah, a lift would do a lot, I could replace the plastic skid plates.. The winch will be a pain but doable

I also prefer to keep my trucks as stock as possible so I get it. But a lift and bolting on some skids is pretty easy or relatively cheap to have someone install for you.

But if you must get another truck, I’d also look at the F150 Tremor or Ram Rebel. Comes stock with 33’s already and lift from factory. I don’t know about the Rebels but the Tremor’s payload was around 1,500-1,600lbs.

 

[Todd780]

But if you must get another truck, I’d also look at the F150 Tremor or Ram Rebel. Comes stock with 33’s already and lift from factory. I don’t know about the Rebels but the Tremor’s payload was around 1,500-1,600lbs.

Depends on trim. If you get a loaded Tremor, it's basically a Lariat with off road knick knacks. So, payload might be the same as OP's current truck.

For reference, my truck is an XLT 302a. My payload is 1,777 lbs on a SuperCrew FX4 with the 6.5" Box. But I purposely left out the moonroof on the order sheet because it was a 200 lbs hit to my payload, same with the PowerBoost option. Seemed like a neat idea having an on board generator but I didn't t want the payload hit... I put 35's on it and so far it's taken me every where I've needed to go.

 

[TexasSixSeven]

I stopped and looked at a couple Tremors and few other XL and XLT F150s today out of boredom when killing 30 minutes. Payload ranged from 1640 to 1980. Surprisingly the XLs had the lowest payload, but they were also optioned as 6450 GVWR trucks instead of the 7100 GVWR the Tremors and XLTs were. One tremor was 1860 and the other was 1780. Those aren’t exact numbers but rounded to the nearest 0 as my mind likes to round things up or down lol